Faicuai Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 3 hours ago, José Pereira said: Top of logo title letters is a brown but on NTSC turns to green. Modern NTSC color-decode will render $01 hue-band as parrot-green. This is also reflected on Sophia-II default palette, which is why you see that top-row as greenish. While colorimetrically accurate, the above rendition of $01 hue-band is not desirable. It should be yellow-gold while still DIFFERENT than $0F hue-band, so you get a true 256 hues/lumas map. We need an adjusted Sophia-II palette precisely for this purpose. I could do it correctly if I get access to a palette-file for Sophia-II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Faicuai said: Modern NTSC color-decode will render $01 hue-band as parrot-green. This is also reflected on Sophia-II default palette, which is why you see that top-row as greenish. While colorimetrically accurate, the above rendition of $01 hue-band is not desirable. It should be yellow-gold while still DIFFERENT than $0F hue-band, so you get a true 256 hues/lumas map. We need an adjusted Sophia-II palette precisely for this purpose. I could do it correctly if I get an access to a palette-file for Sophia-Ii. is it possible for you to convert and test that in NTSC? I want to see if my colour selection is compliant and its just Jose's selection its having trouble with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, STE'86 said: convert and test that in NTSC? And that would be? What image-file? What tools would be required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 its a 5 colour png file done with the PAL palette. it will need running thru a converter like Jose used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, STE'86 said: its a 5 colour png file done with the PAL palette. it will need running thru a converter like Jose used. I think it would be more useful for him to post how ACP is being rendered on his end, and then I post how it is coming out here, so he can clearly see where the color-map (perceptual) differences are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, Faicuai said: FYI, any Atari palette rendition where bands 1 and F are matched implies a 240-color rendition, yet our machines are designed to produce a 256-color map. In other words, our machines produce a color map in which each individual cell is different from any other given cell, so 256 lumas+hues are achieved. The Altirra Hardware Reference Manual suggests otherwise. The above would seem to be true only for NTSC systems. In Chapter 6.1 it explains why, by design, on PAL systems band 1 & F are always identical. Unless @phaeron has this wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 that wasnt my question tho. Jose is obviously using different colours to me. all his tones are coming from the same colour gradient whereas my light, medium and dark tones are all from different complimentary gradients to trick the eye into seeing more colour than is actually there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, drpeter said: The above would seem to be true only for NTSC systems. My systems are all NTSC. I will check Altirra HW-reference guide for PAL case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, drpeter said: In Chapter 6.1 it explains why, by design, on PAL systems band 1 & F are always identical. Ok, conclusion is that PAL-palette got hosed here in the name of color-consistency: Now, GTIA is designed to produces 256 colors, and I would leave to someone else's "creative" juices to come up with a solid reason of why we should chop-off a whole row of 16 luma-hues out of A8's NTSC color map: Ouf course Salt color-adjustment procedure is dead-wrong, unless they somehow tried to come up with a procedure more or less yielding the same results for NTSC and PAL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Jacques said: Nice of you removing the line where I said it's WIP Thanks also for spamming this thread again... On 12/14/2020 at 5:37 PM, Jacques said: Cool, thank you for an update and sharing Actually as a 10 y/o Atari 130XE owner, I once saw PoP PC intro (must have been Hercules gfx card, or maybe VGA mono) in a shop window and thought: "I see no reason why Atari couldn't do it". Decades later (2012), I knew IT WAS possible, after seing Gonzo's animation: It's impressive as heck, but since it's just a "mock-up" animation and real PoP intro will run using game's engine (I guess), there's no point to compare - I know Fingers crossed and great to hear the project is alive and will get finished sooner than later, thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, rensoup said: Nice of you removing the line where I said it's WIP Thanks also for spamming this thread again... Now you got into endless loop of accusing of spamming, whenever you don't like a comment. It's just the intro animation, as simple as that, WIP, demo, whatever we call it, but it shows what Atari is capable of when it comes to PoP intro. Your opinions are iconsistent, you dismiss some beautiful title screens and call them monochrome, yet monochrome intro is state of the art? It's nice, it's OK, but if we put above example of Gonzo's intro against your words: Quote This is an A8, there are limits to the hardware. It is extremely beautiful as it is. I don't see what could possibly be improved. ...it shows the limits are way more far. Sure, I prefer to have your complete and excellent conversion than just the intro, but please be fair and admit Atari can do better, and "don't admit to its weaknesses", because that example shows some killer graphics against any other 8-bit PoP intro, so if it stays monochrome, fair enough, but there's no need to say it's looking best this way. Edited August 21, 2021 by Jacques 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Jacques said: ...it shows the limits are way more far. Sure, I prefer to have your complete and excellent conversion than just the intro, but please be fair and admit Atari can do better, and "don't admit to its weaknesses", because that example shows some killer graphics against any other 8-bit PoP intro, so if it stays monochrome, fair enough, but there's no need to say it's looking best this way. ? What part of WIP don't you understand ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, rensoup said: What part of WIP don't you understand ? Is it candid camera? Quote I don't see what could possibly be improved. Oh wait... it's wip. Which line of truth should we pick up, then? The one saying you virtually see no room for improvement of intro, or the bottom one you now pick up to suggest otherwise? Crazy stuff, lots of confusion could have been easily avoided here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Maybe... Just maybe, @rensoup and @TIX still have some surprises in store for us and don't want to spoil it all by showing everything before release... I'm kinda bummed out that the (wip) title art has been revealed already, I hope that the mouse is worked into it somehow (maybe standing on the princess's hand or something) those of us who have read every excruciating one of the current 107 pages will always see the mouse and smile. If you haven't already noticed, the development of this game is in excellent hands, how about just letting them get on with it and giving us something to be excited about instead of just making us feel a sense of relief that we won't have to read any more of this thread. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) nothing has been revealed. there was no WIP title art. it was written off many many months ago. Edited August 21, 2021 by STE'86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Jacques said: Is it candid camera? Which line of truth should we pick up, then? The one saying you virtually see no room for improvement of intro, or the bottom one you now pick up to suggest otherwise? Crazy stuff, lots of confusion could have been easily avoided here. I can't help if you don't have basic reading skills. On 6/13/2021 at 4:00 AM, rensoup said: The cutscene background is the part that's most definitely not final, it will have more colours and probably have bits redesigned... I am fed up having to quote myself. Thread starters should really be able to silence trolls without having to go through mods. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, rensoup said: Thread starters should really be able to silence trolls without having to go through mods. The problem with that is the occasional rage quit will take a lot of valuable content with it when the topic starter of threads that have evolved into something useful delete everything on their way out. Then the inevitable regret when they calm back down. Limited mod powers, maybe limited to just blocking people from commenting in a thread for a limited period but not deleting anything or keeping people from reading would maybe be a good idea but someone has to code that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 When karma hits the right people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) btw. The mouse image still impresses me by the originality and used details. It's not drawn too artistic and looks like a screenshot of an animated movie. Imagine such a picture back in the 70s . It could have become "the mascott" for Atari . If the game is finished, someone should make a sequel: Mouse of Persia: the Narrator's Quest , using the engine with a completely new design . Edited August 22, 2021 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Personal attacks have been deleted. If you can't stop provoking the developer, you know who you are, then you will be banned from the thread. Unfortunately, the ban from thread feature is currently broken, so you will be put on moderator preview for the time being. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, tep392 said: so you will be put on moderator preview for the time being. Excellent. Please, include anyone else that has no real interest on the game, or has provided any meaningful contribution to this thread. It will cleanup the garbage nicely. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Faicuai said: Excellent. Please, include anyone else that has no real interest on the game, or has provided any meaningful contribution to this thread. It will cleanup the garbage nicely. Only if they continue to cause trouble. My suggestion is to put anyone you feel is trolling on "Ignore" and stop feeding them with responses. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 The interesting thing about this interlude is that it made it pretty obvious that the picture's subject is irrelevant... Shall we have a non-inflammatory game of bingo then? ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 16 hours ago, rensoup said: The interesting thing about this interlude is that it made it pretty obvious that the picture's subject is irrelevant... Shall we have a non-inflammatory game of bingo then? ? Welcome to the Atari-Scene. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 25, 2021 Author Share Posted August 25, 2021 13 hours ago, emkay said: Welcome to the Atari-Scene. To be fair, this interlude was started by someone who was never involved in the Atari side of retrogaming afaik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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