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Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!


rensoup

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16 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said:

i think it was called bitbender on ST or Amiga… yes I am talking about the sinus waved scroller by pixel collums esp. what is it 50 fps?

Of course, I vaguely remember plotting each column individually in the ZP then copying the byte column into the screen.

7 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said:

yes… similar to this. ?

that's a delta update scroll where only the bits that change vertically are updated hence the chunky font...

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10 hours ago, rensoup said:

I start with a horizontal scroll, represented internally with 1 byte per pixel, which allows me to do this for a 8 pixel screen byte:

 

cpx HorizontalScroll+offset1

ror

cpx HorizontalScroll+offset36

ror

...

cpx HorizontalScroll+offset22

ror

sta Screen0+pos

 

The offsets are precomputed and because the scroll is slightly zoomed up (it's 256x6 when horizontal) I can replace 

 

cpx HorizontalScroll+offset36

ror

cpx HorizontalScroll+offset36

ror

 

with 

 

cpx HorizontalScroll+offset36 ; 4 cycles

ror

anc #$ff ; 2 cycles

ror

 

because sometimes the same scroll pixel is plotted twice consecutively. 

 

ANC, which does c = (#imm & A) & $80. and agreed about using undocumented ?

 

no, I mean the font would look static and follow a sin curve without bouncing

thanks for explanation...

now time for me to code both effects which are on my bucket list for ages... the "texter" flying chars effect and the "bitbender" DYPP... :D

just curious... you seem to have demo background... on which platform? :D

 

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On 10/4/2021 at 4:17 AM, emkay said:

 

 

What would you expect? 

The game is in no way directly usable. 

MSX has about  30 Sprites and the color mode is at 256x212 pixel.

C64 also has the color High Res. option.

Also, a lot platform games of that type exist already.

And it actually IS the problem of the PMG limitation that "not too much " moving objects in High resolution and with a colored overlay. 

Interesting philosophy.

By this concept, not a single arcade videogame from, let's say the late 70s until the late 90's could have been converted to home systems.

 

Conversion of a certain game from one platform to another means that sometimes "sacrifices" have to be made, and that is very often very acceptable.

When I play Space Harrier on the A8, I do not expect the amount of colors, the resolution and the number of objects like the arcade game has. (You'd even expect the sound effects, music and speech to be of at least less quality, but somehow the programmer managed to get it almost arcade-perfect.) But do I like to play it ? Do I totally enjoy it ? Does it baffle me that the old 1978 A8 hardware can pull this off ? Oh yes !!!!
We all KNOW that when a game gets converted, it won't be exactly like the original. That's not what we're hoping for.

I know the A8 doesn't have 30 sprites, but I don't see 30 sprites in Night Knight. Apart from that, I've learned that software sprites are also possible.

If the C64 has the color High Res. option for the backgrounds, maybe the A8 could go with a lower res background, or if it must, with a single color.

The best "reason" you give though is: "Also, a lot platform games of that type exist already.".
Do I really honestly need to respond to that ? No I don't think so. Everyone with a bit of brains understand how utterly stupid that remark is.

To Rensoup: I agree it has elements of Miner (the filling of the floors with color) but I'm not sure if you looked a bit further into the video. The levels add stuff all the time and strategy becomes more and more important.

Anyway.... It was just a suggestion, no one needs to feel obliged to pick it up, but I really hope someone will consider it. 

And that's the last thing I wrote about this in this thread as I don't want to spoil it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Level42 said:

Interesting philosophy.

By this concept, not a single arcade videogame from, let's say the late 70s until the late 90's could have been converted to home systems.

 

It's depending of the sense of the game that has to be reached. 

Best examples were Moon Patrol and Gyruss. Unbelievable great playability on the Atari. 

Actually, they play like the real arcade. 

 

1 hour ago, Level42 said:

Conversion of a certain game from one platform to another means that sometimes "sacrifices" have to be made, and that is very often very acceptable.

When I play Space Harrier on the A8, I do not expect the amount of colors, the resolution and the number of objects like the arcade game has. (You'd even expect the sound effects, music and speech to be of at least less quality, but somehow the programmer managed to get it almost arcade-perfect.) But do I like to play it ? Do I totally enjoy it ? Does it baffle me that the old 1978 A8 hardware can pull this off ? Oh yes !!!!
We all KNOW that when a game gets converted, it won't be exactly like the original. That's not what we're hoping for.

 

 

The point is that those game had their own originality. 

How many derivates of "Space Harrier" would you like to play on the Atari?

 

1 hour ago, Level42 said:

 

 


I know the A8 doesn't have 30 sprites, but I don't see 30 sprites in Night Knight. Apart from that, I've learned that software sprites are also possible.

If the C64 has the color High Res. option for the backgrounds, maybe the A8 could go with a lower res background, or if it must, with a single color.

The best "reason" you give though is: "Also, a lot platform games of that type exist already.".
Do I really honestly need to respond to that ? No I don't think so. Everyone with a bit of brains understand how utterly stupid that remark is.

 

 

 

"Everyone with a bit of brains understand how utterly stupid that remark is."

 

The point is that you look at that game and think of something impossible already. You simply put the facts aside that 50% of screen information is a part of the game, which will not be shown on the Atari. Space Harrier doens't need all the screen information of the arcade, because the game has a much lower "gameplay resolution"

The main problem is that particular this seem never to change, even after all those decades of discussion:

Much simpler games didn't make it to the Atari, because people only want games that exist on other platforms, instead of proposing games that could use the Atari to it's best. 

(do you know , how often I wrote this already? ) 

And there was exactly some heavy discussion going on in the other PoP thread where people wanted the C64 version on the Atari. 

I'm still blocked from that thread, even after everything  I wrote turned true (luckily the BBC version appeared). 

Now we have a PoP version that is not like the C64 version , which is a good thing, as it is using the Atari's benefits better, and actually looks and sounds like a 16 bit machine. 

Luckily someone did all "correction" to the BBC version that allowed it to use it as a base for the development on the Atari, and ofcourse rensoup did take care .

 

 

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1 hour ago, Goochman said:

Well if we're dreaming here I always like the game Spherical on the ST.  Not sure if theres anything like this on the 8bit and should be doable.

 

Hey this is a Solomon's Key clone I didn't know about !

it has been ported to other 8bits

Edited by TIX
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14 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said:

thanks for explanation...

now time for me to code both effects which are on my bucket list for ages... the "texter" flying chars effect and the "bitbender" DYPP... :D

The explanation was for the circle scroller ?, I quickly looked at the bitbender code and just couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing! 

14 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said:

just curious... you seem to have demo background... on which platform? :D

 

started on another Atari platform ?

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7 hours ago, Goochman said:

Well if we're dreaming here I always like the game Spherical on the ST.  Not sure if theres anything like this on the 8bit and should be doable.

It's a good game, but not that interesting to port... I don't think anybody is doubting that it can be ported to the A8

 

6 hours ago, TIX said:

Hey this is a Solomon's Key clone I didn't know about !

it has been ported to other 8bits

I think this is actually the original!

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Great news!! I’m sure we will enjoy this game.

 

By my side, I have finished the FlashSRAM design and now looking for a reliable pcb manufacturer. Looks like the COVID-19 situation on is worse than the news said, cause I have a lot of previous pcb manufacturing stalled on the Ganzshou zone.

 

Any suggestions?

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19 hours ago, Level42 said:

I know the A8 doesn't have 30 sprites, but I don't see 30 sprites in Night Knight. Apart from that, I've learned that software sprites are also possible.

If the C64 has the color High Res. option for the backgrounds, maybe the A8 could go with a lower res background, or if it must, with a single color.

Hey, that's a good suggestion (Night Knight). There's nothing about that game that couldn't be done on A8 imho. Level layout is even simpler than Manic Miner and it's been converted perfectly.

Have to go now and investigate who coded that on msx...

 

@TIX Don't tell me you like Solomon's Key too ? :) That's one of my favorite games ever... From Arcade to c64, then spectrum, cpc... It's brilliant. Pm me if you wanna do gfx for atari :)

 

@rensoup Great game you've about to finish man. Many thanks for all your effort !

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22 minutes ago, xxl said:

after such an absolute hit as PoP, another hit to keep the level must be at least a knockout ... Ghost'n Goblins V-Rally ?

we should open a new thread to keep track  ?

Solomon's Key is a done deal with Vlad, PM send !

why you crossed out Ghost and Goblins ? I'd love to demake those sprites..

 

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11 hours ago, popmilo said:

Hey, that's a good suggestion (Night Knight). There's nothing about that game that couldn't be done on A8 imho. Level layout is even simpler than Manic Miner and it's been converted perfectly.

Have to go now and investigate who coded that on msx...

 

Promised to not write about it anymore but as there are plenty of other suggestions being done……

 

Thanks !! Nice to get a positive response. Also good to hear someone thinks it can be done….

 

look here for the official MSX original page:

https://www.usebox.net/jjm/night-knight/

 

programmers info is there too, and he agreed with the C64 conversion.

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On 10/5/2021 at 5:57 PM, emkay said:

Luckily someone did all "correction" to the BBC version that allowed it to use it as a base for the development on the Atari, and ofcourse rensoup did take care .

There's that belief that the BBC version was simpler than the A2 version, this is not the case. The A8 version has as much in common with the BBC version as it has with the A2 version and the C64 version: the game code, which is identical on all 4 platforms.

The rest is totally different, there's no BBC code in the A8 version anymore.

 

The main benefit from using the BBC version was that Bitshifters made the tool suite available so I was able to build the BBC code straight away as well as a working disk image.

 

I still use beebasm to build the game.

 

Had I wanted to use the A2 version I would have had to convert all asm files to an Atari assembler which was a waste of time since the would produce the same binary anyway (and very error prone too).

 

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I want to give @rensoup and all others who helped a big THANK YOU for creating this great A8 version of Prince of Persia!

 

A lot of A8 users will enjoy your game very much. I think it is exceptional that there are still people out there who are willing to make these games for our little computer in their spare time and release it for free! ??? up!

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7 hours ago, rensoup said:

There's that belief that the BBC version was simpler than the A2 version, this is not the case. The A8 version has as much in common with the BBC version as it has with the A2 version and the C64 version: the game code, which is identical on all 4 platforms.

The rest is totally different, there's no BBC code in the A8 version anymore.

 

It's about the graphics part. It has been adjusted to fit to 8 bit, which helps a lot with the masking. 

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