Jump to content
rensoup

Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

Recommended Posts

Yes, those are very good José.  I hope they can be used.  I'm also not a big fan of the plain black and white.  It looks a little too spartan compared to how great the rest of the game is looking.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post Edited because: "Bottom part gfxs some pixles must be brown, not the dark blue." so now screens and files are corrected there.

:thumbsup:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, José Pereira said:

-> Together:

692233673_All_text1.png.94cc599f753fd6766e8eed447cb54cba.png 2126450355_All_text2.png.0fbdfbc5a3434257294bbca23edf9ed9.png

   All _text1.g2f 4.28 kB · 0 downloads                                            All _text2.g2f 4.43 kB · 0 downloads

   All _text1.xex 12.76 kB · 0 downloads                                           All _text2.xex 12.77 kB · 0 downloads

So asking again: Why not a simple thing like this that other versions have, looks good and is so simple as just copy these files and automatically use them on the game?

Sorry but I really don't understand.

:thumbsdown:

 

 

 

These look just great 🤩 A legendary PoP style of text and decorations, the one you immediately recognize as THAT VERY GAME arrived on Atari, plus making use of Atari capabilities.

I'd vote with my everything for that, if there only was a poll ;-)

Edited by Jacques
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, José Pereira said:

I said him but he don't listen.

I know that it'll never look good to anyone and flicker is never a choice as is not for everyone.

I had things from the past that posted him but no way.

I show him that @emkay was simple and that I also have something similar and posted him the files. Still no way and that all was beeing cared of... It seems was but on a wrong way. I said that no need for credit me or to he make a contact to @emkay...

After all the hard work then comes this to destroy everything? Sorry but I'm also to say that just don't have to agree in everything.

Why the flicker? For what? Things can be done without it.

So now to all here's the the screen for everyone (now to please more the blue is more darker in luminance 2):

-> PFs only:

1601969031_All_text1PFsonly.png.d9259186efc5aefaf42e3b05f172b322.png 1870643774_All_text2PFsonly.png.c41adf423bc5a9b3ace53211d4a9daeb.png

-> PMGs only:

1895092552_All_text1PMGsonly.png.9bac6665ff18d6016643228ac66a36b0.png 1559497516_All_text2PMGsonly.png.d3ca5010e6956affca43ba22d67902c8.png

-> Together:

692233673_All_text1.png.94cc599f753fd6766e8eed447cb54cba.png 2126450355_All_text2.png.0fbdfbc5a3434257294bbca23edf9ed9.png

   All _text1.g2f 4.28 kB · 1 download                                            All _text2.g2f 4.43 kB · 3 downloads

   All _text1.xex 12.76 kB · 11 downloads                                           All _text2.xex 12.77 kB · 12 downloads

So asking again: Why not a simple thing like this that other versions have, looks good and is so simple as just copy these files and automatically use them on the game?

Sorry but I really don't understand.

:thumbsdown:

 

 

Now that's way better...  subtle changes make this stand out now. A much better vision than what was initially posted.

Edited by _The Doctor__
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I tested all the binaries presented here in a LCD TV, and I can say that a no flicker version looks better.

 

With the flicker, I could see in 480i resolution, but it doesn't give so much improvements.

 

Of course, it's just my opinion. Rensoup has the final call.

 

Cheers!

Edited by Wilheim
Mispell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Philsan said:

I've tested the three files on PAL machine with s-video output.

 

Noflicker looks good to me.

Flicker1 flickers too much to be used.

Flicker2 flicker slightly, it can be used (says someone who doesn't like flicker at all).

 

 

Thanks for posting the only helpful reply... As I hoped Flicker2 provides a cheap/reasonable AA alternative.

 

For those complaining about flickering, if you use Altirra with frame blending enabled, there's no flickering at all so it's absurd to argue about it.

And if you use a real machine, see @Philsan's post above.(YMMV depending on the output type & TV/monitor used)

 

 

  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Wilheim said:

I tested all the binaries presented here in a LCD TV, and I can say that a no flicker version looks better.

 

Thanks for testing... not sure what you mean with this:

Quote

With the flicker, I could see in 480i resolution, but it doesn't give so much improvements.

 

(the no flicker version font should be noticeably more blocky btw)

Edited by rensoup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, rensoup said:

 

Thanks for testing... not sure what you mean with this:

 

(the no flicker version font should be noticeably more blocky btw)

IMHO, that gaining more resolution doing a 480i text screen does not give too much picture improvement, despite being the no flicker version more blocky. Then again, it's just my opinion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Wilheim said:

IMHO, that gaining more resolution doing a 480i text screen does not give too much picture improvement, despite being the no flicker version more blocky. Then again, it's just my opinion.

 

ok I wasn't sure if this is considered 480i (384i in my case) but maybe it is.

 

@Rybags, what do you mean by proper 480i interlace ? I thought it was just 240 with alternating frames ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, my interlace mode uses an exploit of an Antic bug to create an extra half scanline HSync which will make most TVs treat the signal as interlaced.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 24" LCD Gateway doesn't like interlace mode too much. It displays it, but there is distortion and flicker. I wish I had a [good] CRT.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2020 at 9:05 PM, rensoup said:

Alright, got the flickering working on that prologue font... It's just typical flickering between 2 hires screens to give the illusion of a 3rd color, halfway PF1 & PF2. (Same as the Altirra OS floppy screen)

 

prol_noflicker.png.d074f941288691b441ca4fdcdd393e07.png

 

prol_flicker.png.fa8c8b55d35ac96757417a393b1c54ea.png

 

It's certainly better (how much better depends on your setup). I've made 3 versions:

 

1. NoFlicker: same as Pop on the A2/C64. The worst looking one.

 

2. Flicker1: screen0 contains the font with every pixel lit, screen1 contains only font pixels at full brightness. Very intense flickering

 

3. Flicker2: screen0 contains the font with pixels at full brightness and the pixels at half brigthness at ODD/EVEN coordinates. Screen1 is the same for fully bright pixels but it contains the rest of the pixels at half brightness at EVEN/ODD coordinates (opposite of screen0). Moderate flickering (Best looking one)

 

 


I'm curious to hear from real Atari users (NTSC&PAL) which one looks best, although I'm going to bet Flicker2.

 


(...)


 


 

 

fnt_flicker2.obx 4.93 kB · 27 downloads fnt_flicker1.obx 4.93 kB · 21 downloads fnt_noflicker.obx 4.93 kB · 26 downloads

Well, talk about an unorthodox (but valid nonetheless) way of handling the intro... Some feedback:

 

  1. Oddly, flicker1.obx appears the best on my [Viewsonic VP930b + DVDO iScan HD/+]  LCD + video processor combo. Flickering is minimal or non-intrusive, while showing improved horizontal definition (not sure how much vertical, though). I would attribute this to the iScan HD/+ sheer speed.
  2. flicker2.obx also appears nicely resolved, but there is definitely more "crawling" (high-speed) around fine edges. Does not appear as stable as #1.
  3. As a reference, I compared vis-a-vis above renditions with Altirra's (NO frame-blending), all on NTSC/60.
  4. With respect to non-interlaced colored-versions, they are definitely attractive, and look inviting, like if you were reading a live-story / book. However, the "yellow" color needs to be moved out of hue-bands $E0/$F0 into $10 for better rendition on NTSC (assuming phase is retarded to reproduce hue-band $10 as GOLD, as it is expected from the A-8bits).

Keep up the GREAT work!

 

Edited by Faicuai
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, rensoup said:

For those complaining about flickering, if you use Altirra with frame blending enabled, there's no flickering at all so it's absurd to argue about it.

And if you use a real machine, see @Philsan's post above.(YMMV depending on the output type & TV/monitor used)

 

 

Together with potential flickering, I think many people simply gave an opinion on pure "white on black" text, not being much prince-of-persish and missing a lot of "classic" stuff, but yeah, it's certainly different 🙄

Altirra argument is missed, I think. While it's extraordinary tool giving almost real Atari feeling, I don't feel it should be considered as target platform or the one to determine looks.


My feedback nevertheless (PAL Atari 130XE + LG M1721A old LCD-TV 17" monitor, that DOES NOT reduce flickering):

 

1) flicker_1: flickers a lot and it both hurts the eyes and doesn't look good

2) flicker_2: minimal/acceptable flickering, fonts look best overall and that would be MY PICK.

3) no_flickering: stable fonts, but they don't look that good as in flicker_2.

What's important Guys, maybe we shouldn't give flickering feedback with modern TV/monitors that don't allow to disable all picture-corrections, as one can get stable flicker_1, while it flickers like hell ;-)

 

@rensoup

Good luck with intro whatever it is, it's just a bit strange that with all that openess (poll) regarding sounds and other stuff, here the voice of people isn't heard and these beautiful screens of Jose will be missed...

But it's your creation to have PoP you like, we all appreciate the fact and will certainly celebrate and be happy when it's finished 🙂

Edited by Jacques
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@rensoup

Excellent work with PoP conversion, it looks really awesome.

The choice of color of prince's vest is great idea and I like it much. My opinion to black and white intro text is that it doesn't fit too much to PoP game and it looks weird. I like José's pictures more and would be awesome if it could become a part of game.

 

Keep up good work :thumbsup:

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like and respect your work, but I do not understand why is necesarry to use flickering screens. It is really ugly. Masterpiece such as Space harrier is looks great but flickering title Picture was terrible. Josés story screens looks great. Nice colours. There is not need to have more colours on screen, so why it must flickering ? Please use some normal atari graphics mode and not ugly interlaced and flickering 480i :(

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@Poison

While I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you that Jose's-like screens should be used, did you try to run these black/white examples on real machine?

The flickering in #2 is minimal (#1 is terrible) and actually makes the letters look way better/sharper than no-flicker version, which letters look bad...

Edited by Jacques
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As written by me and others, example 2 flickering is minimal, at least on real pal hardware and CRT monitor, and could be used.

But in my humble opinion José color solution is a lot better.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jacques said:

Good luck with intro whatever it is, it's just a bit strange that with all that openess (poll) regarding sounds and other stuff, here the voice of people isn't heard and these beautiful screens of Jose will be missed...

But it's your creation to have PoP you like, we all appreciate the fact and will certainly celebrate and be happy when it's finished 🙂

That's what's strange to me.  There was a lot of openness and willingness to listen to feedback on this project, but it seems on this one point, even when so much of the feedback prefers José's screens, that there is no alternative going to be possible to the black and white screen.  Well, ok then.  Just seems odd.

Edited by TheNameOfTheGame

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Philsan said:

As written by me and others, example 2 flickering is minimal, at least on real pal hardware and CRT monitor, and could be used.

But in my humble opinion José color solution is a lot better. 

 

I tested all three versions on two different ATARIs one 800XL(PAL/CRT) and a second 600XL (PAL/TFT).

 

Example 1 of the flickering versions flickers like hell on my crt but example 2 there also flickers a lot and I have to admit that I can't stand any of those flickering examples on my crt ATARI.

 

With tft things are different. Example 1 still flickers too much while example 2 flickers less. It is still noticeable but better.

 

The non-flickering version looks best on both machines so if you don't go for José's version (which I like most) I'd vote for the non-flickering version.

 

Anyway, what I recommend regardless of flickering or not is to eliminate the typing error and to write "daughter" instead of "daugther" in the final version. 😈 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


On a technical level, the flickering is nothing special, it's just plain modeF. I'm not making any compromise in terms of colors. I'm just trying to improve the font's nasty edges.

 

If it was just CRTs, Flicker2 would always beat flicker1 but with LCDs and their crap post processing, it's a little different... I may just have to make it an option (flicker2/ no flicker)

 


On the subject of layout:

The flickery fonts and the original design are not mutually exclusive but that tile layout looks like it came out of cheap bathroom.

 

If you check out this vid:

 

 

 

All the intros are bookmarked and you'll see that many versions are very different from the original. A key element that never changes is the game title font, it's much more part of PoP than those tiles. 

 

 

Sure, I like to discuss choices... between preapproved options 😏 (and cheap bathroom tiles never was one)


And like I said earlier:

Quote

(Perhaps I'll have some colors around the large character at the top left)

 

This is just a flickering test and may (not) be the final look
 

 

 

(if you don't believe flickering can look good, just check Joe Musashi's Donkey Kong VCS which beats the A8 graphically!  )

 

this runs on a A2600:

aa_donkey_kong_vcs_33fps.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Rybags said:

No, my interlace mode uses an exploit of an Antic bug to create an extra half scanline HSync which will make most TVs treat the signal as interlaced.

Is there a visual improvement over regular flickery modeF ?

 

Sounds like it just makes the screen buffer continuous ?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Improvement, yes.

By it's nature, interlace on a CRT can flicker especially synthetic images made on a computer.

The general rule is avoid single pixel high horizontal lines in such cases.  You generally don't notice flicker from broadcasts since you're usually getting a full image and usually not lots of contrast between adjacent pixels.

When you do see flicker it's usually in overlayed text or graphics.

 

Since the Atari has versatility in how things are laid out in memory for graphics, you can do your own system.

e.g. for bitmap you could have a 400 pixel high picture then just use 2 display lists that do LMS 80 bytes apart.  Or you could just have 2 seperate 200 pixel high bitmaps, each showing even and odd scanlines.

For character mode you generally have the shared text screen then 2 character sets, one for even, the other for odd scanlines.

 

For an example of what you can expect to see you could try the "Real interlace (480i)" link in my tag below.  Best run on a CRT TV, or use Altirra with it's interlace emulation enabled and probably best in NTSC with video sync locked to the monitor.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2020 at 6:35 PM, patjomki said:

What do you mean by "flat"?

 

Here are c64 and dos examples.

 

 

pop_c64.jpg

pop_dos.jpg

 

On 5/26/2020 at 11:15 AM, TheNameOfTheGame said:

Yes, those are very good José.  I hope they can be used.  I'm also not a big fan of the plain black and white.  It looks a little too spartan compared to how great the rest of the game is looking.

 

On 5/26/2020 at 11:32 AM, Jacques said:

 

These look just great 🤩 A legendary PoP style of text and decorations, the one you immediately recognize as THAT VERY GAME arrived on Atari, plus making use of Atari capabilities.

I'd vote with my everything for that, if there only was a poll ;-)

 

21 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Now that's way better...  subtle changes make this stand out now. A much better vision than what was initially posted.

 

Quote

 

@rensoup

 

I understand you want to go another way compared to existing versions, but I'm also not sure if plain black/white text of introduction is the way to go. It shows not much of Atari8 superiority over another 8-bit platforms (colors), looks just plain and not that stylish, rather like it's plain because there was no disk-space, RAM, etc...

Of course it's not a life or death choice and the game still will be great, but I think these subtitles should be presented in consistent colors-form to the rest of the intro/PoP graphics.

 

I really see nothing wrong with these decorations around and having more colours (here, Amiga),  so maybe thinking twice would be good if we want to have it different just for the sake of it:

obraz.png.9131b6d729bd9b467f25dabae1ca0906.png

 

The big 1st letter is also a "classic" here we'd miss?

 

And sorry for that, but supporting isn't only about agreeing to everything ;)

Edited yesterday at 08:11 AM by Jacques

 

 

18 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

My eyes already flicker enough, so no flickering please!

 

 

11 hours ago, Kyle22 said:

My 24" LCD Gateway doesn't like interlace mode too much. It displays it, but there is distortion and flicker. I wish I had a [good] CRT.

 

 

9 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Well, talk about an unorthodox (but valid nonetheless) way of handling the intro... Some feedback:

 

  1. Oddly, flicker1.obx appears the best on my [Viewsonic VP930b + DVDO iScan HD/+]  LCD + video processor combo. Flickering is minimal or non-intrusive, while showing improved horizontal definition (not sure how much vertical, though). I would attribute this to the iScan HD/+ sheer speed.
  2. flicker2.obx also appears nicely resolved, but there is definitely more "crawling" (high-speed) around fine edges. Does not appear as stable as #1.
  3. As a reference, I compared vis-a-vis above renditions with Altirra's (NO frame-blending), all on NTSC/60.
  4. With respect to non-interlaced colored-versions, they are definitely attractive, and look inviting, like if you were reading a live-story / book. However, the "yellow" color needs to be moved out of hue-bands $E0/$F0 into $10 for better rendition on NTSC (assuming phase is retarded to reproduce hue-band $10 as GOLD, as it is expected from the A-8bits).

Keep up the GREAT work!

 

 

8 hours ago, Jacques said:

Together with potential flickering, I think many people simply gave an opinion on pure "white on black" text, not being much prince-of-persish and missing a lot of "classic" stuff, but yeah, it's certainly different 🙄

Altirra argument is missed, I think. While it's extraordinary tool giving almost real Atari feeling, I don't feel it should be considered as target platform or the one to determine looks.


My feedback nevertheless (PAL Atari 130XE + LG M1721A old LCD-TV 17" monitor, that DOES NOT reduce flickering):

 

1) flicker_1: flickers a lot and it both hurts the eyes and doesn't look good

2) flicker_2: minimal/acceptable flickering, fonts look best overall and that would be MY PICK.

3) no_flickering: stable fonts, but they don't look that good as in flicker_2.

What's important Guys, maybe we shouldn't give flickering feedback with modern TV/monitors that don't allow to disable all picture-corrections, as one can get stable flicker_1, while it flickers like hell ;-)

 

@rensoup

Good luck with intro whatever it is, it's just a bit strange that with all that openess (poll) regarding sounds and other stuff, here the voice of people isn't heard and these beautiful screens of Jose will be missed...

But it's your creation to have PoP you like, we all appreciate the fact and will certainly celebrate and be happy when it's finished 🙂

 

6 hours ago, Lukaso said:

@rensoup

Excellent work with PoP conversion, it looks really awesome.

The choice of color of prince's vest is great idea and I like it much. My opinion to black and white intro text is that it doesn't fit too much to PoP game and it looks weird. I like José's pictures more and would be awesome if it could become a part of game.

 

Keep up good work :thumbsup:

 

5 hours ago, Poison said:

I like and respect your work, but I do not understand why is necesarry to use flickering screens. It is really ugly. Masterpiece such as Space harrier is looks great but flickering title Picture was terrible. Josés story screens looks great. Nice colours. There is not need to have more colours on screen, so why it must flickering ? Please use some normal atari graphics mode and not ugly interlaced and flickering 480i :(

 

5 hours ago, Jacques said:

@Poison

While I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you that Jose's-like screens should be used, did you try to run these black/white examples on real machine?

The flickering in #2 is minimal (#1 is terrible) and actually makes the letters look way better/sharper than no-flicker version, which letters look bad...

 

5 hours ago, Philsan said:

As written by me and others, example 2 flickering is minimal, at least on real pal hardware and CRT monitor, and could be used.

But in my humble opinion José color solution is a lot better.

 

4 hours ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

That's what's strange to me.  There was a lot of openness and willingness to listen to feedback on this project, but it seems on this one point, even when so much of the feedback prefers José's screens, that there is no alternative going to be possible to the black and white screen.  Well, ok then.  Just seems odd.

 

That's the comments from people...

You seem to just read what you want to, like:

15 hours ago, rensoup said:
On 5/26/2020 at 6:44 AM, Philsan said:

I've tested the three files on PAL machine with s-video output.

 

Noflicker looks good to me.

Flicker1 flickers too much to be used.

Flicker2 flicker slightly, it can be used (says someone who doesn't like flicker at all).

 

 

Thanks for posting the only helpful reply... As I hoped Flicker2 provides a cheap/reasonable AA alternative.

 

For those complaining about flickering, if you use Altirra with frame blending enabled, there's no flickering at all so it's absurd to argue about it.

And if you use a real machine, see @Philsan's post above.(YMMV depending on the output type & TV/monitor used)

 

But not posted other @Philsan post:

5 hours ago, Philsan said:

As written by me and others, example 2 flickering is minimal, at least on real pal hardware and CRT monitor, and could be used.

But in my humble opinion José color solution is a lot better.

 

Those just black&white even not flickering re-posting a comment from @Jacques:

Quote

Together with potential flickering, I think many people simply gave an opinion on pure "white on black" text, not being much prince-of-persish and missing a lot of "classic" stuff, but yeah, it's certainly different 🙄

Altirra argument is missed, I think. While it's extraordinary tool giving almost real Atari feeling, I don't feel it should be considered as target platform or the one to determine looks.

What this says? That isn't for Emulators you should work for but for real Machines and TVs. And these flicker, only with modern you could probably take some of the flicker off but if was on the past? Sure not. And PAL guys will have while NTSC others don't?

Black and white with just Big letters also has nothing to do of PoP.

 

 

1 hour ago, rensoup said:

On a technical level, the flickering is nothing special, it's just plain modeF. I'm not making any compromise in terms of colors. I'm just trying to improve the font's nasty edges.

 

If it was just CRTs, Flicker2 would always beat flicker1 but with LCDs and their crap post processing, it's a little different... I may just have to make it an option (flicker2/ no flicker)

 


On the subject of layout:

The flickery fonts and the original design are not mutually exclusive but that tile layout looks like it came out of cheap bathroom.

 

So you're calling original Jordan Mechner design "cheap bathroom"?

Come on, you seem to be the only one with this opinion.

No isn't the font but all together.

Sorry to say but I wish the team me and others on the past hadn't @Franco Catrin get some life problems finished PoP we'll never come to this part and discussion.

Also sorry to say but even your great work on SubHunter it didn't come to a game, thinking better now, I don't know if I really like to give you what I had. On this you liked all those colours and DLIs whitle these screens not?

 

I don't ever meet anyone here don't accept some comments and ideas and on  games I worked even when mine was what others like we alwys get to a compromise... though not just of one(s) part(s) but a join from all involved.

You may say I'm not part of the team but others here also don't and it seems no-one here ever posted that you must go for that black&white just with the text.

It's not just have or not flickering. It's just is a 'lazy' display that sure destroyed all the good work on the game. I think this is what people are here saying and why to me is revolting.

 

Do whatever you want but for me whatever it'll be I sure will not like it.

I wish I had the knowledge to, when game will be finished, take off those text screens and change for mine. I'm sure that it'll then have more downloads and will reduce to almost zero yours , though all other game parts are coded by you and other works by @TIX.

Feel free to call Administrators if you want and can make possible to remove me the possibility to write here...

:thumbsdown:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...