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bluejay

What Have I Done...

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I'll try when I get home, but my Extended 80 column card does not fit in standard slots, only the aux slot.

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18 minutes ago, ChildOfCv said:

Just inventing diagnostics tests on the fly here, but:  Try putting the 80-column card in without the disk card, and typing PR#6.  See if it goes to 80-column mode.  Or put the 80-column card into slot 6 and see if PR#3 activates it.

No, no, no! Do *not* attempt to put the 80 column card anywhere but in the aux memory slot. It will not work anywhere else as the aux slot has a very different pin assignment.

 

Try removing the disk interface card and retest the 80 columns and try and isolate which card might have the fault. If the 80 column mode is still flakey after removing the disk interface, try spraying some contact cleaner into the aux slot (with the computer turned off!). Also try cleaning the fingers on both the 80 col card and the disk interface card with a pencil eraser to make sure that there is good contact between the card and the slot. Also inspect the slots for any debris, or bent slot contacts.

 

Let us know how you get on. Hopefully you will be able to identify which card causes the instability.

 

Cheers,

Mike

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I've sprayed tons of contact cleaner and removed any dust by spraying compressed air on it multiple times. Hell, I've even pulled out suspected ICs out and cleaned them. As I said, I'll try and tell you guys what happens.

I might also try reseating all the chips on the 80 col card, except for the memory chips 

Edited by bluejay

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51 minutes ago, Polymorph said:

No, no, no! Do *not* attempt to put the 80 column card anywhere but in the aux memory slot. It will not work anywhere else as the aux slot has a very different pin assignment.

Really?  Wikipedia has it listed as one of the standard 50-pin cards.  Is it possible that you're thinking of a different incarnation of Apple?

 

Quote

50-pin standard slots[edit]

  • Serial cards (RS-232 serial interface)
  • Parallel cards (Centronics/IEEE 1284 parallel interface)
  • Multifunction I/O cards
  • Internal modems
  • 80 column (or more) text cards (e.g., Videx)
  • PAL Color graphics cards (required for color graphics in early European Apples)
  • RGB cards
  • Floppy disk controllers
  • Hard disk controllers
  • Network adapters
  • Co-processor cards
  • Memory expansion cards
  • Accelerators
  • Realtime clock cards
  • Music and sound cards
  • Miscellaneous cards

Edit:  Okay, it appears that there are multiple incarnations.  It also lists 80-column cards under the aux slot for IIe.  Well, I wouldn't expect PR#3 to put it in 80-col mode if it's in the aux slot, would it?

Edited by ChildOfCv

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So, here's a possibility then:  If there's no card in slot 3, then PR#3 will just do junk.  Someone mentioned that it can cause occasionally amusing lockups when you PR to a slot that doesn't exist.  Anyway, each slot maps address Cx00 where x is the slot number.  PR#x causes the system to call the ROM at that location when it outputs text.  If there's no response in slot 3, it could be executing code through the end of slot 3, slot 4, slot 5, and then hitting slot 6.  At that point, it may be activating the disk.  So having the disk light turn on when you PR#3 could just be a natural consequence of executing code that leads up to slot 6.

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Well, I tried everything. It doesn't work. Why is the computer not recognizing the card?

Side question: Why do I get checksum errors when I try to load cassette files from online?

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It could be that the 80-col card is kaput.

 

On the cassette thing:  Did you try adjusting the volume of your phone's headphone output?

 

Re ProDOS:  If you can find a bootable disk of any kind, try hitting ctrl-reset as soon as the ] appears.  Many of them will let you interact within a disk-aware system after that, though some will replace the reset vector so that it just resets instead.  But at least then you'll have a usable system.

 

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Hmmm... another possibility:  Perhaps PR#3 only works after a successful boot into ProDOS, because SOMEONE would have to remap that to the aux slot.  The other issue is that when BASIC isn't running a program, it may switch back to PR#0 (40-col mode) on first input.  Did you happen to find an AppleWorks disk among your goodies?  That office suite uses 80-column mode, so it would be a good smoke test.

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On 12/18/2019 at 5:28 AM, bluejay said:

Help!

When I plug and unplug the 80 col card, sometimes the slot assignment program shows that I have the card in slot 3, sometimes it doesn't. I think the computer thinks that the disk drive card is plugged in slot 3 AND 6 for some reason. Drive 2 makes the "weak whirring sound", as mentioned in the A//e manual.

Sometimes, when I type PR#3, the cursor turns solid, but the screen stays in 40 column mode. I've tried esc+8.

Also, ProDOS doesn't always boot. I checked and it does have a bad sector; sector 1.

It won't copy itself to another disk either. What should I do?

As far as I remember 80-columns card must be connected to the Expansion Slot and slot 3 left free (without any card). Is this your configuration?

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I found the 80-column card manual.  https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/hardware/video/Apple IIe Extended 80-Column Text Card (Rev B).pdf

 

It confirms that you must boot DOS 3.3 or ProDOS first.  Next, PR#3 activates the card.  Finally, escape sequences can switch between 40 and 80 column mode:  ESC, 4 for 40 and ESC, 8 for 80.  It also shows how to do that in your BASIC program.

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I have read the manual thoroughly, and it doesn't work in any kind of BASIC that I have. Sometimes when the computer detects the card after I spray so much contact cleaner, I type PR#3 and the cursur goes to the top of the screen and changes to a solid block instead of the standard checkerboard, but it's still in 80 column mode. I tried all this and esc 4 and esc 8 a while ago already.

Edited by bluejay

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15 hours ago, ChildOfCv said:

Really?  Wikipedia has it listed as one of the standard 50-pin cards.  Is it possible that you're thinking of a different incarnation of Apple?

 

Edit:  Okay, it appears that there are multiple incarnations.  It also lists 80-column cards under the aux slot for IIe.  Well, I wouldn't expect PR#3 to put it in 80-col mode if it's in the aux slot, would it?

 

The original Apple ][ and ][+ machines had the defacto rule that slot 3 (50 pin) was for an 80 column card. The Apple //e was designed with a special slot (the Aux slot - 60 pin) which provided both an additional 64Kb and 80 columns. The //e was designed such that it was backwards compatible (as was Apple's way) to mimic the earlier machines - so PR#3 does indeed activate the 80 column card in the //e. As another poster mentioned, the *real* slot 3 was usually left empty. 

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26 minutes ago, Polymorph said:

 

The original Apple ][ and ][+ machines had the defacto rule that slot 3 (50 pin) was for an 80 column card. The Apple //e was designed with a special slot (the Aux slot - 60 pin) which provided both an additional 64Kb and 80 columns. The //e was designed such that it was backwards compatible (as was Apple's way) to mimic the earlier machines - so PR#3 does indeed activate the 80 column card in the //e. As another poster mentioned, the *real* slot 3 was usually left empty. 

Yeah it appears that the slot 3 translation is hidden inside of the MMU.  I'm looking through disassembled ROM dumps and it seems to map RAM over the original ROM space and do data copies as needed.  Sneaky, sneaky.

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6 hours ago, ChildOfCv said:

So, here's another possible test:

 

POKE 49162,0

PR#3

 

vs

 

POKE 49163,0

PR#3

 

Is there a difference in behavior between those two?

Yes.

POKE 49162,0

PR#3

makes it go into 80 column mode except as I mentioned, it's not in 80 columns.

POKE 49163,0

PR#3

Makes the DuoDisk drive run.

I think the card accessing problem is solved! Now what about the non-80 column screen when the card is active?

Also, when I try the same thing with the ProDOS Applesoft BASIC, it still says"NO DEVICE CONNECTED".

Edited by bluejay

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On the cassette checksum errors: I tried the games in LOFI and everything worked. Bummer! HIFI is way faster. I did find some games that worked in HIFI though. Out of the ones I tested, CC Rally, Blitzkrieg, and Ballblazer worked in HIFI.

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1 hour ago, bluejay said:

Yes.

POKE 49162,0

PR#3

makes it go into 80 column mode except as I mentioned, it's not in 80 columns.

POKE 49163,0

PR#3

Makes the DuoDisk drive run.

I think the card accessing problem is solved! Now what about the non-80 column screen when the card is active?

Also, when I try the same thing with the ProDOS Applesoft BASIC, it still says"NO DEVICE CONNECTED".

According to a ProDOS Q&A, "NO DEVICE CONNECTED" is error $28 and happens when you ask for a disk drive that doesn't exist.  So it sounds like it's still going to the drive slot.

 

Anyway, see if you can force it into 80-column mode:

 

POKE 49165,0

 

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Well, it kinda works. It is in 80 column mode, but it displays a bunch of garble.

Also, the numbers keys are messed up. For example, if I type 22222..., it displays 2r2r2r2r2...

Side question: How come I'm keep getting checksum errors in Apple Disk Server games? I've tried all options(format hifi, no format hifi, format 8kfi, no format 8kfi) but nothing works.

Edited by bluejay

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12 minutes ago, ChildOfCv said:

According to a ProDOS Q&A, "NO DEVICE CONNECTED" is error $28 and happens when you ask for a disk drive that doesn't exist.  So it sounds like it's still going to the drive slot.

 

Anyway, see if you can force it into 80-column mode:

 

POKE 49165,0

 

Bleh, damn cards.

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2 minutes ago, bluejay said:

Bleh, damn cards.

No 80-column that way either?

 

I'm going by the schematic here, but if you measure pin 6 of the IOU (UE5), what is its voltage?

 

after POKE 49164,0

 

then after POKE 49165,0

 

That should also connect to pin 25 of the aux card.

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It's 7v, 7v, 0v, respectively.

43 minutes ago, ChildOfCv said:

No 80-column that way either?

 

I'm going by the schematic here, but if you measure pin 6 of the IOU (UE5), what is its voltage?

 

after POKE 49164,0

 

then after POKE 49165,0

 

That should also connect to pin 25 of the aux card.

 

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7V?  How much is the power supply throwing at it?  It should have rails of +5V, -5V, +12V, and -12V.  The logic should all be +5V or 0.  And did pin 25 of J0 match?

 

j0.png.a61f58edcb37d06679c2849f78e240db.png

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Well, that's what my multimeter said. I think I'll try again tomorrow, as it is almost 10pm where I'm living, and I'm feeling too lazy to move the monitor and disk drives and mess with my multimeter. I think I'll work on my Model 100 for today.

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Yeah it's important that the voltage be close to 5V because 7V is right on the ragged edge of most chips' "absolute maximum".  So if the power supply is overpowering the chips, then that's the first thing to get fixed.

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