Jump to content
IGNORED

Chess


Andrew Davie

Recommended Posts

In this close-up, we can see where the camera has caught both frames (in the lower squares), but only one of the frames (in the upper squares).

Although the lines forming the square colour are just one scanline, in the upper (behind the pawn) they are thin, and in the lower, they are thick.

In fact, the square colour is formed by 1 blue line, two black lines, one blue line... etc. But in the lower square we see how the interlacing has widened the blue line so that it now appears roughly the same thickness as the black line. This is what I mean by interlacing putting "more colour" on the screen - the blackness is reduced.

301843699_ScreenShot2020-07-08at12_19_56am.png.93c08c32c77e89caf4f9d94a0cc9ad5a.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Karl G said:

First one is on my tiny Triniton, and the second one is on my OLED TV. Looks good on both. Flicker is slightly visible if you look for it, but not an issue. 


Many thanks.

Which do you prefer - interlaced or the original?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Andrew Davie said:

Thanks - sorry, Chess is currently NTSC only - I should have reiterated this!

Edit: Having said that, only the colours should be screwed; the TV seems to be coping with the actual image. My perception, though it's hard to tell for sure from the picture - is that the lines for the squares seem to be slightly thicker - the gap between them is reduced compared to earlier versions.

 

Edit2: Despite being B&W - the contrast between the black and white pieces themselves is excellent. Very happy with that.

Yes the contrast was very good. I played a short game with this version, until the AI made a very clever trick, it captured my pawn "en passant" several moves after it moved his pawn passed mine. My pawn indeed made a 2 square beginning move, but this was several moves before all this happened. ?

 

After this ingenious move i managed to win the game with my unpredictable "power off" move.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Al_Nafuur said:

Yes the contrast was very good. I played a short game with this version, until the AI made a very clever trick, it captured my pawn "en passant" several moves after it moved his pawn passed mine. My pawn indeed made a 2 square beginning move, but this was several moves before all this happened. ?

 

After this ingenious move i managed to win the game with my unpredictable "power off" move.

 

I left that in just to see if you were paying attention. You pass.

Now I'll take it out, having served its purpose.

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Andrew Davie said:

I don't think the emulators show this properly - I have a vague memory that Stella dropped interlaced support - yet to be confirmed.

Stella never supported this.  I believe z26 did at one point, and it was removed in the ASM-to-C rewrite.  I see you've already created an issue for it, so we'll get to it as time allows.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My extremely professional screenshots give some idea of the difference. It's minor, but it's there. Interlaced on the right.

I have put the interlacing on the right difficulty switch, so now you can toggle back and forth while the game is running, to see the difference.

Me, I think I prefer the interlacing but it's subtle. I don't see any reason I can't just leave it on the switch and allow the user to choose.

compare.thumb.jpg.5e17b52637b74ea2db824a00a7dc2d10.jpg

chess3E+20200707i.bin

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone thought of using the B/W switch to multiplex sets of left/right difficulty?

 

BW switch set to BW means the difficulty switches control one set of options.

BW switch set to COLOR means the difficulty switches control another different set of options.

 

Or how about using the keypad controller to "instantly" set something. Heck there's like 12 buttons on it!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Has anyone thought of using the B/W switch to multiplex sets of left/right difficulty?

 

BW switch set to BW means the difficulty switches control one set of options.

BW switch set to COLOR means the difficulty switches control another different set of options.

 

Or how about using the keypad controller to "instantly" set something. Heck there's like 12 buttons on it!

All you need is one switch, really....  user manual:

"To select two player mode, toggle right difficulty switch on-off-on-on-off-off-off-on at 10 Hz."

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Karl G said:

Have any games used interlaced mode before? I know there have been demos. 

Tapper:

 

I experimented a bit with interlacing on the 2600 a while ago, and I remember that I got issues with PAL color loss.

IIRC, adding one scanline  to one of the field eliminated the color loss (e.g alternarting between 312.5 and 313.5 lines), but these field with different line count screwed the image at least in an old BW TV.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, alex_79 said:

I experimented a bit with interlacing on the 2600 a while ago, and I remember that I got issues with PAL color loss.

IIRC, adding one scanline  to one of the field eliminated the color loss (e.g alternarting between 312.5 and 313.5 lines), but these field with different line count screwed the image at least in an old BW TV.

I guess I better have a play with my PAL machine and see how things go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, have now tested on PAL. Whilst the interlacing does actually work, the first 20 or so scanlines on my TV have incorrect colours.

So, I've started to dig deep into PAL TV interlacing/timing. The following site appears to have some good info...

 

http://blog.retroleum.co.uk/electronics-articles/pal-tv-timing-and-voltages/

 

In particular the diagram shows how to correctly form a PAL interlaced frame. I'll see if I can do something like this...  it's certainly much more complex than the fairly simple system I have currently...

pal_tv_diagram_interlace.jpg.b00ea5c167218b28c38444b964d8a128.jpg
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Al_Nafuur said:

Tested on PAL 2600jr with PlusCart

 

IMG_20200707_144200.thumb.jpg.09a4e10a5a3fef28eeef7a79dce400f7.jpg

 

20 hours ago, Andrew Davie said:

Edit2: Despite being B&W - the contrast between the black and white pieces themselves is excellent. Very happy with that.

I'm digging the black and white look. Could that be option?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Nathan Strum said:

 

I'm digging the black and white look. Could that be option?

I had a go, but... not really.

The problem is that the inensities of "true" white (i.e., colour 0) do not match the intensities of the other colours rendered by the TV without colour.

So there's much more subtlety/graduation available with the latter. The test I did using just shades of colour 0 were not sufficiently different to easily distinguish the pieces black/white.

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...