Connecting Atari 800 XL to a modern TV

[BillC]

22 hours ago, tajvdz said:

sorry I was a bit busy and also started using a Sdrive Max. But I must say that with composite I get a reasonable result. better than the old RF switch I used before. 

I will make the changes to the Atari later so that I can test the S-vhs signal as well. But I need one advise for now. Is it better to make 2 cables, one with audio and S-vhs plug and one with audio and composite plug. Or make just one with audio, composite and S-vhs plug? 

I'm also still interested to see the result of the switch that has to be placed inside the Atari. And I also still don't understand why you have to remove a component to add a function...

Having a single cable with all the plugs means you don't have to look for the other cable when you change to a different display. 8bitclassics makes such cables that also have the audio split into 2 RCA plugs, the same audio signal on both.

 

https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-5-pin-din-to-s-video-composite-av-cable/

 

[tajvdz]

On 12/20/2019 at 12:42 PM, BillC said:

Having a single cable with all the plugs means you don't have to look for the other cable when you change to a different display. 8bitclassics makes such cables that also have the audio split into 2 RCA plugs, the same audio signal on both.

 

https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-5-pin-din-to-s-video-composite-av-cable/

 

Yes this is exactly the cable I wanted to make myself. Maybe I will order one instead. Does the lenth of the cable matter?  Or doesn't it matter for the quality if I use an extention cable?

[BillC]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:19 PM, tajvdz said:

Yes this is exactly the cable I wanted to make myself. Maybe I will order one instead. Does the lenth of the cable matter?  Or doesn't it matter for the quality if I use an extention cable?

I think the length of cable would only make a difference if the video signal was weak, it shouldn't have an affect with the 800XL video signal.

[tajvdz]

On 12/20/2019 at 12:42 PM, BillC said:

Having a single cable with all the plugs means you don't have to look for the other cable when you change to a different display. 8bitclassics makes such cables that also have the audio split into 2 RCA plugs, the same audio signal on both.

 

https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-5-pin-din-to-s-video-composite-av-cable/

 

what kind of picture do you get with this cable? I ordered one but I get another result with it than with a cable I made myself...

[+DrVenkman]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:05 AM, tajvdz said:

I'm also still interested to see the result of the switch that has to be placed inside the Atari. And I also still don't understand why you have to remove a component to add a function...

You don’t need to add any switch to get composite and S-video out of your Atari at the same time. Both sets of signals (Composite and Chroma/Luma) can be carried in the same cable at the same time. 

[tajvdz]

how can I check if chroma is oresent in my Atari 800XL? With the cable from *-bit classics i get a color picture with the s-video plug connected. It only has some vertical lines.

[tajvdz]

I compared the cable I ordered from 8-bit classics.com (din on one side and s-video, audio L/R and composite video on the other side) with one I made myself. As base for my own made cable I used the cable on the other picture with din on one side and on the other side 4 RCA plugs where each one is matching a pin of the din and all ground goes to the middle pin. The colors are as follows: black = audio, white = composite video, red = chroma and yellow = luma. Composite video has the same result with both cables but S-video act differently. First I have to say that my 800XL doesn't have a modifiaction on the monitor connection so the chroma connection should be missing. I made a short cable myself (the 3rd cable) I cut a s-video cable in 2 and connected 2 female RCA plugs to the 4 wires, one is for luma (black) and the other is for chroma (red). I attach this cable to the other cable so i have din to s-video now. Both cables measure the same but give a different picture compared to when i use the composite video plug. The cable from 8-bit classics gives a picture that is a bit sharper than composite video, seems to have all the colors but has vertical lines. The cable I made myself gives an incorrect picture. It has a bit of red/purple glow. On my cable i can disconnect one of the 2 signals. when i disconnect the luma signal I get nothing and when I disconnect chroma only I see no difference. in my oppinion this is logical because chroma is not connected inside my 800XL. Or is it that maybe my 800XL has the chroma pin present and are the vertical lines with the cable from 8-bit classics caused by interference? In that case I should get a better picture with a soldered cable.  I said before that chroma alone doesn't work. Does that have to do with sync and does it never work by itselves? 

 

I also put the chroma and luma RCA plugs of my cable in the composite video input. With chroma of course nothing happens. With the luma I get the same result that I get with the luma+chroma rca to s-video cable I made..

 

So what should be the difference in picture bewteen a din to s-video where the 800XL (or other computer) has chroma and luma present and one that has chroma missing? what kind of pictures should I get then? I was told a black & white picture? That is not what I get in al situations.. 

 

I also soldered a cable. I used the other halve of the S-video cable I cut in 2 and soldered a din plug on the other side. It makes no difference in picture with the other cable I made. So I'm wondering what happens with the cable from 8-Bit Classics. Why does that picture look different since it measures exactly the same?

 

Can someone explain the difference I get? Why does the cable from 8-bit classics gives a color picture on my unmodified ? 800XL? Like I said both cables measure exactly the same. I can show pictures of both results maybe...

I hope someone can clear this mystery for me!

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Edited February 2, 2020 by tajvdz

[+Cafeman]

I bought a 5 pin DIN connector for my 800XL to get composite vs default RF which wasn't that good looking.  Well, after figuring out which of the 5 output connectors were composite and mono sound, I found that the 800XL composite is also not that great. The colors seem mostly correct but darker than the composite from my XEGS. And, there is a horizontal smearing effect going on... what ucould be causing that? 

 

I also notice one of the pins on the  cable has a video signal but it looks like it is either chroma or Luna only. Not as nice looking as the composite video pin. 

 

In summary, the XEGS composite is much clearer and superior to the 800XL composite using the 5 pin/ monitor output. Is this the normal situation? Or maybe the 800XL has gotten too old? 

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, Cafeman said:

I also notice one of the pi s on the  able has a video signal but it looks like it is either chroma or Luna only. Not as nice looking as the composite video pin. 

 

In summary, the XEGS composite is much clearer and superior to the 800XL composite using the 5 pin/ monitor output. Is this the normal situation? Or maybe the 800XL has gotten too old? 

The standard XL composite video sucks, period. NTSC XLs do not have chroma connected to the DIN at all, though luma is connected. XE machines restored chroma to the DIN jack and - perhaps surprisingly - tend to have better composite video than XLs.

[SS]

I have one of these on order from Amazon so that I can connect my SOPHIA DVI out and audio out to one single HDMI input.  Unfortunately, my shipment box seems to have gotten lost in the mail and the replacement is back ordered and won't be delivered until February 28th.  I am looking forward to giving it all a try and hope that this is the all-in-one solution that I have been looking for.

[bfollowell]

3 hours ago, SS said:

I have one of these on order from Amazon so that I can connect my SOPHIA DVI out and audio out to one single HDMI input.  Unfortunately, my shipment box seems to have gotten lost in the mail and the replacement is back ordered and won't be delivered until February 28th.  I am looking forward to giving it all a try and hope that this is the all-in-one solution that I have been looking for.

 

Well, I don't know if it would exactly be all-in-one since you had to purchase and install the Sophia, but yeah.

 

Let us know how it works out for you. I may be in the market for something like that myself when I finally get around to assembling my 1088XEL with Sophia DVI.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[tajvdz]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:23 PM, Cafeman said:

I bought a 5 pin DIN connector for my 800XL to get composite vs default RF which wasn't that good looking.  Well, after figuring out which of the 5 output connectors were composite and mono sound, I found that the 800XL composite is also not that great. The colors seem mostly correct but darker than the composite from my XEGS. And, there is a horizontal smearing effect going on... what ucould be causing that? 

 

I also notice one of the pins on the  cable has a video signal but it looks like it is either chroma or Luna only. Not as nice looking as the composite video pin. 

 

In summary, the XEGS composite is much clearer and superior to the 800XL composite using the 5 pin/ monitor output. Is this the normal situation? Or maybe the 800XL has gotten too old? 

comparing to the RF output comnposite is much better. I have the 800XL. Maybe there is a difference between NTSC or Pal? My colors are not darker. S-Video is a bit sharper I guess but not that much. I have the horizontal smearing with some bad quality s-video cables like I explained above. But again, chroma is not connected as well.

 

 

[pusakat]

My NTSC 65XE is currently connected via composite video in to an old 21" CRT TV. I'm wondering if there are any drawbacks to getting an LCD/LED TV with composite video in. Would there be any loss of artifacting for games that use it for color? Or is junking the CRT in favor of the LCD/LED TV a good idea, with no lost capability in the move? Are there any reasons for retaining a CRT TV/monitor aside from nostalgia and the idea that you're still using old tech?

[_The Doctor__]

LCD/LED can be a mixed bag, But I can't stand the lag most introduce to games... you have to anticipate everything... or know in advance what you want to do, for utilities and other tasks it's just fine. Only the fastest lcd/led tv's are worth game play to me.... make pretend you are a competition world class gamer of today on modern machines competing for millions... only then is the gameplay real ?

[gilsaluki]

CRT vs New Modern.  The one thing you certainly CANNOT do on the LCD/LED TVs is play Barnyard Blaster, or any other light gun games.  Can't use the Atari Lightpen.   I stick with the CRTs.  Have extras in the attic.  Just sayin'.

[TheRaven81]

This is actually the next step up for me and my own 800XL, but I'm also wondering if there's any easy way to see if the Chroma line in my unit is attached(preferrably without having to open it up first)? Maybe a PEEK/POKE(i'm not sure which it would be) command? Not even sure if that sort of thing is even known/stored by the Atari in any memory address.

 

I'd like to find out so that I can start using something besides the ugly looking RF output. Was going to buy that same exact cord from 8-BitClassics.com, but there's also a slightly cheaper one, that doesn't have the S-video plug on it. It pains me to say but I don't trust myself to open it up to look, and have it still working when I re-assemble it because i made some mistake from knowing near nothing about what I was doing. It's working now as it is, so I'd like to keep it that way.

[Colleton]

21 hours ago, TheRaven81 said:

but I'm also wondering if there's any easy way to see if the Chroma line in my unit is attached(preferrably without having to open it up first)?

Buy this cable and use it to connect your 800XL to an S-Video TV or monitor.  If the image is black and white, the chroma line is not connected.  You'll need a cable like this anyway once you've modded your machine for S-Video, so you aren't losing anything by buying it.

 

https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-5-pin-din-to-s-video-composite-av-cable/

 

Honestly, just open the computer, take the RF shielding off and look at the underside of the motherboard under the video connector.  You'll see right there that the chroma line is not connected.

[Muttgutt]

hi everyone

Does anyone know if one of these can be made to work with the atari 800xl RGBtoHDMI

 

cable guide to other computers RGBtoHDMI/wiki/Cables

 

I cant find any info on the atari 800xl Rgb TTl levels ect so I am stuck

 

thanks in advance

 

 

[bfollowell]

18 hours ago, Muttgutt said:

hi everyone

Does anyone know if one of these can be made to work with the atari 800xl RGBtoHDMI

 

cable guide to other computers RGBtoHDMI/wiki/Cables

 

I cant find any info on the atari 800xl Rgb TTl levels ect so I am stuck

 

thanks in advance

 

 

 

While I don't know for certain, I seriously doubt it, at least with a stock 8-bit. The main reason I say that is that the 8-bit machines don't output RGB, so it would be kind of hard to use the RGB-HDMI mod. The only way that I'm aware of to get an 8-bit Atari to output RGB is to install the VBXE upgrade. Stock machines are pretty much stuck with RF, composite, and S-Video. The easiest way to get HDMI output from an  Atari 8-bit would be to purchase and install a Sophia2 upgrade.

 

[Sinjinhawke]

5 minutes ago, bfollowell said:

 

While I don't know for certain, I seriously doubt it, at least with a stock 8-bit. The main reason I say that is that the 8-bit machines don't output RGB, so it would be kind of hard to use the RGB-HDMI mod. The only way that I'm aware of to get an 8-bit Atari to output RGB is to install the VBXE upgrade. Stock machines are pretty much stuck with RF, composite, and S-Video. The easiest way to get HDMI output from an  Atari 8-bit would be to purchase and install a Sophia2 upgrade.

 

I have used connected my Sophia 2 to RGB but it was convoluted.  DVI to HDMI dongle then HDMI to RGB adapter.  It worked but I found over a period of 15 minutes the screen would get progressively milky.  Not sure why that is, could be the TV or the adapter.   I stick to using HDMI but was just curious.

[Faicuai]

On 4/6/2020 at 7:42 AM, pusakat said:

Are there any reasons for retaining a CRT TV/monitor aside from nostalgia and the idea that you're still using old tech?

 

That very much depends on the SW titles you used to run back in the time, as well as your intended of the platform moving forward.

 

CRTs will always have the upper-hand on the temporal domain, just because moving everything at electron-speeds (you can't beat that). However, when it comes to the spatial domain, and everything else (e.g. form factor, desk-space, resolutions, TV-or-Monitor configs, interfacing solutions, net resolution, linearity, sharpness, power-consumption, ease of repair, cost, etc.) flat screens are poised to always have the upper hand, there.

 

Decades ago, I remember always wanting a flatter, darker, lighter and much thinner screen for my personal computing. Those expectations still hold true even today, reason for which I discontinued (years ago) all use of all CRTs in favor of fast LCDs with comparable color-gamuts (on NTSC). I do not need the temporal superiority of CRTs on my day-to-day use.

 

(NOTE: here's one of multiple tests I captured in the past, with large and powerful Sony WEGA CRT TV, vs. smaller 19" LCD monitor,  with equivalent color-calibration. Click for larger picture)  :

 

A Sophia-II rendering via DVI-D will give you a pin-sharp, "Holy-smokes" video output-quality on a good, fast LCD monitor. No need at all of RGB (or lesser capable interfaces) of the time.

 

Your own needs will show you the way.

[Mazzspeed]

CRT is better than any LCD based solution when it comes to contrast ratio's, furthermore there's plenty of CRT's with very fine dot pitch specifications. When it comes to retro computing, I prefer CRT connected via separately shielded chroma/luma or DVI using something like Sophia 2 by far - The problem is they're becoming rarer as time goes on.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Mazzspeed