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Why did Coleco Scrap the original SGM in favor of the ADAM?

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7 minutes ago, christo930 said:

Is this going to be on YT by yt I mean free?

 

Oh yeah, definitely!
Blu ray / DVD version are going to be available as well 

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36 minutes ago, 128Kgames said:

Not me man, I was 15 in '82!  

 

This might help: when was the Super Action controller set released?  Cause I remember that at the same show as the SGM and I don't think it was released yet.  The SGM was the only "add on" I bought for the Coleco other than the driving controller.

 

AFAIK SAC was released in 1983. So you not only saw the original SGM, you also bought it! You must have been a pretty big investor... :)

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1 minute ago, opcode said:

 

AFAIK SAC was released in 1983. So you not only saw the original SGM, you also bought it! I must have been a pretty big investor... :)


Yeah, seems more like early 83 
I would be it was in February 83

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25 minutes ago, opcode said:

 

AFAIK SAC was released in 1983. So you not only saw the original SGM, you also bought it! You must have been a pretty big investor... :)

Yeah, sorry about that, I meant I bought the SAC, glad you knew what I meant.  Damn phone fills crap in sometimes when I type.

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3 minutes ago, 128Kgames said:

Yeah, sorry about that, I meant I bought the SAC, glad you knew what I meant.  Damn phone fills crap in sometimes when I type.

 

I figured out, but was still hopeful it wasn't just a typo.... 😞

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6 hours ago, christo930 said:

286 PC were not family computers.   I suppose I should have been more precise.  By family computer I generally mean the 8 bit computers minus the Apple II, which was far more prosumer than family.

Writing a book on a 286 is nor far fetched and you are not spreading it across multiple discs and a new file every few pages (most books are between 4-500,000 and a million characters long).  The book is going to be professionally formatted and printed by a publisher using appropriate equipment. With the exception of the Apple II, they couldn't really be upgraded to an 80 column screen or with additional RAM.

Aside from an Apple II, which word processing software are you talking about?

Granted that. The first 8088/8086 and 286 rigs weren't exactly home systems. But they did start showing up in the home more frequently than realized. Once people saw the 8-bit toy systems weren't cutting it they looked to something more sophisticated - early MACs and early x86 machines.

 

I kept my Apple II in productive use till the early 1990's. And despite it being 8-bits, it wasn't a toy. The key think that threw it into the "big leagues" was 80-column hardware. It was initially difficult to set-up. And to kids that meant "professional". I had to learn what an RF modulator was. And I had to buy expensive software to do anything till I discovered wArEz.

 

When I think of early word processors I think of Magic Window and the text editors in ASCII Express and ProTerm. That on the Apple II. And eventually AppleWorks.

 

On the PC there was WordPerfect and WordStar. 2010 was written on a Kaypro and also used a lot of modem time for cross-country collaboration. And George R.R. Martin was a fan of WordStar. Still is I believe.

 

CP/M had word processors going. And TRS-80 had Scripsit.

 

In the early-mid 1990's I got into PC full throttle and blasted outta the gate with MS Word for Windows. Windows 3.1, and DOS 5.0. This was a natural evolution away from Apple and into a 486 for me.

 

 

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Compared to what was available in Japan, the computer landscape in the US past 1983 was... sad. The fun stuff from Atari and Commodore didn’t have much chance because Tramiel insisted in price wars, dragging the whole 8 and 16 bit hobby market to levels that weren’t sustainable. That is why the first thing I would do with the DeLorean would be to convince IBM to not allow MS to sell their PC-DOS to 3rd parties, thus no “PCs”. Every time I see a PC I can’t help but think of Buzz Lightyear: “you are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity” :P 

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Posted (edited)

Someone would have made a non infringing compatible DOS; just like they made a non infringing compatible bios.  PC-DOS was a non infringing clone of cp/m to begin with.  A lot of the no name ibm pc clones were sold with pirated copies of pc-dos anyway.

Edited by mr_me

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On 6/26/2020 at 3:24 PM, opcode said:

 

Exactly, the crash was not about people stop buying games, which in fact sold more in 1983 than in 1982. Instead it was the retail channel getting clogged with dead stock because there were too many of them for the market size at that point. If games aren't selling, they don't make space for new games and so on. So retailers stop buying them. For companies that means that: 1) your new game doesn't sell as much, because fewer retailers are placing orders. 2) a lot of dead stock was being returned. Thus massive losses. The NES probably worked because by 1985/86 retail had already got rid of most of the dead stock.

The videogame crash of 1983 was a huge recession in videogames and some home computers between the years 1983 to 1985. There is a possibility that in the years to come for the 21st Century there might be another bigger and larger bubble that might burst with a much larger videogame and computer crash (recession). The next videogame recession would most likely not only effect modern computer and videogame systems but also those companies that support classic videogame and computer systems from the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. If another videogame/computer crash does happen hopefully it would only last a few years. Under the right conditions a videogame and computer crash could last 10 years and become a videogame and computer great depression.   

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7 hours ago, HDTV1080P said:

The videogame crash of 1983 was a huge recession in videogames and some home computers between the years 1983 to 1985. There is a possibility that in the years to come for the 21st Century there might be another bigger and larger bubble that might burst with a much larger videogame and computer crash (recession). The next videogame recession would most likely not only effect modern computer and videogame systems but also those companies that support classic videogame and computer systems from the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. If another videogame/computer crash does happen hopefully it would only last a few years. Under the right conditions a videogame and computer crash could last 10 years and become a videogame and computer great depression.   

This is highly unlikely to happen, especially with the internet and with video games being so well integrated into our culture. People will always want to play games on their TV, or on the go.

 

But there's always the possibility of big companies going under because of bad management, or a string of bad games that sink the company's reputation to the point where they drown in debt. First-person shooters are bound to (finally) go out of style at a certain point, and I can only imagine what the video game landscape will look like once that point is reached.

 

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17 hours ago, Keatah said:

Granted that. The first 8088/8086 and 286 rigs weren't exactly home systems. But they did start showing up in the home more frequently than realized. Once people saw the 8-bit toy systems weren't cutting it they looked to something more sophisticated - early MACs and early x86 machines.

 

I kept my Apple II in productive use till the early 1990's. And despite it being 8-bits, it wasn't a toy. The key think that threw it into the "big leagues" was 80-column hardware. It was initially difficult to set-up. And to kids that meant "professional". I had to learn what an RF modulator was. And I had to buy expensive software to do anything till I discovered wArEz.

 

When I think of early word processors I think of Magic Window and the text editors in ASCII Express and ProTerm. That on the Apple II. And eventually AppleWorks.

 

On the PC there was WordPerfect and WordStar. 2010 was written on a Kaypro and also used a lot of modem time for cross-country collaboration. And George R.R. Martin was a fan of WordStar. Still is I believe.

 

CP/M had word processors going. And TRS-80 had Scripsit.

 

In the early-mid 1990's I got into PC full throttle and blasted outta the gate with MS Word for Windows. Windows 3.1, and DOS 5.0. This was a natural evolution away from Apple and into a 486 for me.

 

 

I think the thing that separated the Apple II from similar computers like the C64, Vic 20 and Atari 8 bit was due to the expansion bus, which among other things enables 80 column displays (as you mentioned).  But it brought more than that.  It brought RAM expansion, which is another thing these other 8-bits lack. The expansion bus brought a slew of upgrade cards for it including the ability add different processors for running CP/M and even DOS.   I also think the fact that it was built to stack helped too along with the internal power supply.  Green screen monitor probably helped too.  The Apple II has a lot more in common with the CP/M machines than the family 8-bit computers.  Plus it looks like a real computer and you couldn't buy one at Toys R Us and Kiddie City. Of course, they were a lot more money.

 

I am not really aware of any decent word processor for the Atari or Commodore or Coleco 8 bit computers. I do know they existed for Apple IIs.  I used speedscript, a 4k type in program from a magazine (I was a teen and more time than money), but I am not aware that one even existed.  I know there were some and there were a couple of 80 column solutions. There was one that had a software 80 column mode, but you really couldn't use it on an RF signal. There was at least one hardware 80 column solution for the 64, but it had no support. Like the 128, you couldn't even view the VIC II video on the 80 column monitor.

 

When I got my first PC, a Compaq luggable in the 90s, I used Word Perfect and I think I had Wordstar too.

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12 hours ago, opcode said:

Compared to what was available in Japan, the computer landscape in the US past 1983 was... sad. The fun stuff from Atari and Commodore didn’t have much chance because Tramiel insisted in price wars, dragging the whole 8 and 16 bit hobby market to levels that weren’t sustainable. That is why the first thing I would do with the DeLorean would be to convince IBM to not allow MS to sell their PC-DOS to 3rd parties, thus no “PCs”. Every time I see a PC I can’t help but think of Buzz Lightyear: “you are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity” :P 

If it wasn't DOS it would be something else.  The industry is a natural monopoly.  Having 6 different standards which are not only incompatible software wise, but whose disks you can't even read is undesirable. If Gary Kildall actually went and worked out a deal with IBM, we would probably all be using a Digital Research OS today.   Had IBM been able to stop DOS, we would probably not be using the children of the 5150.  All of the "me too" computers probably couldn't have happened at least not the way it did. But I don't think we would really be in a better position if all this had happened in some other way.  Look at what happened with the phones.   There are things worse than microsoft.

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It's a real shame what happened to Gary Kildall; he was a good man.  Not that Bill Gates isn't a good guy; but my impression is that Digital Research had better programmers than Microsoft and things would have been different in many ways.  He was further along than microsoft with a gui os but he also believed that the company doing the operating system should not compete with companies doing the applications.

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I have my own experiences with Intel and Digital. While contracting with Acorn/ARM I was assigned to Digital to work on the StrongARM. At the time the Intel lawsuit was mid-stride, and the end result was that Intel ended up owning the StrongARM IP and an ARM license. Ironic that Intel sold off that IP to someone else and let go of the biggest ever market advantage they ever had.

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