Xbox Series X

[Atariboy]

I don't think this is as big as people tend to think it is.

 

 

A bit oddly proportioned, but overall it's reasonably compact.

[Guest]

I like it! 

[Agamon]

I'm not sure how people were initially confused by the size.  There's a controller there for comparison.

[Atariboy]

Not to mention the disc drive slot also is clearly evident, which also provides some perspective on the scale. But I've seen plenty of people acting like this is a giant monster. Not so much here at AtariAge, but more so in general.

 

That said, it's still a big system thanks the height of the system if it's laid horizontal, allowing twice the internal volume of the Xbox One X. But only that one dimension is over sized (It's roughly the height of a GameCube with a Game Boy Player attached).

 

The system's width when laid horizontal is in the same ballpark as the XB1X and PS4 Pro, and depth at ~6" is actually significantly less than we're now accustomed to (XB1X is 9.4" and PS4 Pro is 11.6" deep).

Edited December 19, 2019 by Atariboy

[ParallaxUltra]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-xbox-series-x-reveal-analysis

 

Xbox Series X rewrites the rules of console design - and the power level should be extraordinary

What the massive casing tells us about system performance.

 

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The rules are changing, the nature of console design is radically evolving, the presumptions we have about the core design limitations in building a new games machine need to be re-evaluated. Microsoft has revealed Xbox Series X and its monolithic casing has almost twice the volume of an Xbox One X - and what this means for performance is tantalising. A full-on generational leap in power is indeed coming, but delivering this clearly required a profound reassessment of the core foundations on which existing console designs are based.

 

The games console has typically defined as a small, living room-friendly box that easily fits within a living room media cabinet. Dimensions have varied from generation to generation, but the fundamental nature of the form-factor has not - until now. In putting together Xbox Series X, the balance shifts. In its reveal coverage with GameSpot, Microsoft asks us to 'do the math' - Series X is over eight times more powerful than Xbox One, and 2x the power of the X, but the challenge in achieving that in a product that launches just three years later than the Scorpio project is not insignificant.

 Part of the problem is that processor fabrication technology has not increased in step with Microsoft's ambitions. Assuming it's an accurate image, the 7nm chip we saw back at E3 is roughly the same physical size as the 16nm chip seen in the X - likely a touch larger. Transistor density is unlikely to have doubled, meaning that the primary route forward for increased performance is frequency - and lots of it. Increasing clock-speeds gets more performance and therefore more value from the silicon, but the harder you push, the more power you need. And the more power you need, the more heat you produce - necessitating innovation in terms of thermal dissipation.

And that's almost certainly why the Xbox Series X is so large. I'm not expecting a huge amount of difference in the size of the mainboard or the components attached to it when stacked up against Xbox One X. What I am expecting is a very significant increase in power consumption, plus a big upgrade in the cooling solution in order to manage some pretty challenging thermals. Based on the kind of power consumption seen on AMD's latest PC GPUs based on the same technologies, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Xbox Series X pulling twice the power of the Xbox One X.

 

 

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All of this is in service of what Microsoft believes to be the most powerful console of the next generation era. Previously known by its codename of Anaconda (under the Project Scarlett umbrella) the aim has always been to double the outgoing X's prowess with 12 teraflops of compute performance as an internal target. Microsoft sees performance leadership as the crucially important for the core gamer, with Xbox One X - and indeed PS4 Pro - as a successful trial in establishing that committed gamers will pay more for a premium experience.

 

Quote

 

In the here and now though, it's all about Series X where there is still some ambiguity about just capable the system is. If we 'do the math', in raw teraflops alone, the new console is indeed a 12TF machine based on Microsoft's stated comparisons with Xbox One and the X. However, if we're dealing with performance in like-for-like workloads, the Navi architecture's improvements deliver more perf for your teraflop than prior GCN tech, and our tests suggest that a 9-10TF Navi GPU can provide the requisite doubling of performance up against Xbox One X even before other new architectural features come into play.

 I asked Microsoft for clarification on its current-gen multiplier comparisons with Series X, but the firm declined to commit in the here and now to a precise figure. However, our information is that the GPU is indeed 12TF and what are almost certainly well-sourced leaks from Windows Central back this up. The implications are quite remarkable because based on the processor image released at E3 combined with the sheer size of the case, even at a highly clocked 2.0GHz, we'd still require 48 compute units to get the job done - a 20 per cent increase over the Radeon 5700 XT, today's most capable Navi GPU. And that 48 CU allocation wouldn't include redundancy, where we'd expect a further four deactivated CUs to increase yield from the production line. Microsoft surprised us before in how it delivered a six teraflop GPU with Xbox One X, and I'm fascinated by the prospect of similar innovations for Series X.
 

 

 

 

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I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing the final configuration Microsoft has settled upon here. Two of the key aspects in system set-up are being pushed beyond what we currently know as reasonable limits for console design - 12TF suggests a processor at the upper end of the kind of size we've seen in an AMD-based console, possibly larger - and this would be a significant achievement from the new 7nm fabrication process.

 

It would also suggest frequencies that are appreciably higher than those seen in AMD's Navi-based GPUs - which reverses the situation with the current-gen machines, which are typically underclocked compared to equivalent PC parts. Increasing both area and frequency inevitably pushes up power consumption way beyond anything we've seen in a home console. Our measurements for the first-gen PlayStation 3 currently top the power consumption charts at 209W during gameplay. Based on what we know of Navi GPUs from the existing, seemingly less capable Radeon RX 5700-series, not to mention the size of the Series X casing, I wouldn't be surprised to see the new console move beyond 300W. With that in mind, assurances from Microsoft that the machine has a similar acoustic profile to Xbox One X is very, very welcome.
 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by ParallaxUltra

[Cobra Strike Down]

Yeah, between the controller and the disc slot, I still don't get the confusion. I instantly was able to visually understand its size immediately. Even Linus tech tips thinks it's a huge PC tower, and they're TECH PEOPLE for goodness sake.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Cobra Strike Down

[Cobra Strike Down]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:29 AM, wongojack said:

Why do you think this? Because they got SEGA games on the original XBox?

 

The story of the XBox goes back before the Dreamcast was a thing.  Basically the winning idea was to bring PC gaming and networking into a console.  They weren't thinking about SEGA or Sonic at all when they were coming up with the concept in 1998.  Christmas that year was full of big PC releases like Baldur's Gate and Half Life - they wanted those games on a console that could compete with Sony.

 

BTW - I agree with you that it won't be 100% compatible, but I am optimistic that X360 controllers will work if you plug them into it.

 

Because this is common knowledge.

 

It's been well confirmed that the idea and design influences of the OG Xbox was done through influence of the Dreamcast. Microsoft had a big role in helping develop the system and specifically targeted Sega's console to help gain industry knowledge before coming out with their own product (basically, they do what Microsoft always does, swoops in to work on another company's product as a team effort, then takes that knowledge and experience to create competition with said company and or other companies in the industry).

 

Being that the Dreamcast died before the two could really be competitors, the two kept a good relationship. Xbox Live is an evolution of Seganet's ideals and actually Microsoft was very pushy with the proposal to allow DC games to run on the Xbox naively, but Sega didn't want to go forward with it. Microsoft also learned from Sega in making a system that was easy to develop for, which the Xbox was certainly a reflection of that ideal (something Sony failed at with the PS2, which was notoriously difficult to develop on). They did, however, give them numerous exclusives as a sort of "thank you" or continuing on with their previous business arrangement which initially helped Microsoft with it's library near launch and beyond.

 

If you can't find those old interviews from back in the day on the way back machine, for circumstantial evidence just put a Duke pad next to a DC pad. It's clearly an evolution of the same idea. Analog triggers in a "gun trigger" configuration, dual memory card slots that mount from the top down, four face buttons of X, Y, A and B even in the same color pallet, etc. Heck, I'll fight anyone here on this; I bet my damn life that the reason why the Duke's Xbox logo was so damned large was there essentially was a "hole" in the design where the VMU's screen used to be, and they needed to fill the surface space and didn't know how.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Cobra Strike Down

[+wongojack]

The fact that it looks like a Dreamcast (to you) was probably just a convenient design choice.  Knowing SEGA wouldn't sue them, they chose the only viable alternative to making their console look like the Playstation but also be recognized as a game console.

 

The designers of the Xbox were PC people thinking about bringing Windows games and networking to a console while giving MS a spot in the living room.  They didn't give a rip about what SEGA had done (or failed at) unless it made their success easier.

[Cobra Strike Down]

7 hours ago, wongojack said:

The fact that it looks like a Dreamcast (to you) was probably just a convenient design choice.  Knowing SEGA wouldn't sue them, they chose the only viable alternative to making their console look like the Playstation but also be recognized as a game console.

 

The designers of the Xbox were PC people thinking about bringing Windows games and networking to a console while giving MS a spot in the living room.  They didn't give a rip about what SEGA had done (or failed at) unless it made their success easier.

Most of what I stated wasn't opinion, you do realize that, right? As I said, you can use the way back machine and find interviews from then current or ex msoft employees that talk about nearly everything I mentioned outside of the giant logo on the pad that was my conjecture. The interviews were back around the end of that generation or so, maybe the last year or so before 360 was introduced?

 

They DID base Live off Seganet. They DID base their easy development on the Dreamcast's easy development. They DID borrow elements of the Dreamcast pad for their controller. And they DID push for Dreamcast backwards compatibility (and failed to obtain it) but instead got exclusives as a sort of "continuing the business relationship" they had developed since Microsoft helped them with their console.

 

I don't understand what was so hard to misunderstand in my post. Thought I made this pretty clear. Unlike the other poster you originally talked to, I'm not saying any of this because of passing observations like "both systems had four controller ports, so there ya go". These are things you can look up if you have the time. I read these interviews years ago.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Cobra Strike Down

[godslabrat]

Agree that the X1X has probably fulfilled its function and will be quietly forgotten about.  I do have to wonder how the All Digital Edition will factor into this.  Is it selling well enough to warrant continued production?

[DragonGrafx-16]

5 hours ago, godslabrat said:

Agree that the X1X has probably fulfilled its function and will be quietly forgotten about.  I do have to wonder how the All Digital Edition will factor into this.  Is it selling well enough to warrant continued production?

I saw a bunch of the all digital Xboxes just sitting in a stack at Bestbuy today... not going well when there's that many there 3 days before Christmas...

[MrMaddog]

The All Digital Edition was suppose to be an entry level system primary for streaming video & digital downloads, but as long as there still are Xbox 1 S bundles w/ included games (and a optical drive for playing used games) sitting on shelves selling for a few dollars more...fuhgetaboutit!

 

MS should just reduce the cost of the ADE to no more than $200, same price as a 64Gb Apple TV, and sell it as a low end console with the upcoming Lockhart as the mid-range system for most gamers.

 

And of course the Xbox 1 Series X because hardcore gamers love lots of overkill.

[SoundGammon]

Tried different inputs & cables and still no HDR!!!  Works with Sony 4K player!  Any small print on the XBOX ONE X box that says "only compatible with some tv's?"

 

False advertising for sure!

[Atariboy]

There are different implementations of HDR and likely different bandwidth requirements for each type. Try the HDMI cable the Xbox One X came with and connect it directly, since MS obviously is providing one with adequate bandwidth. If that doesn't work, it's likely a system setting that needs to be adjusted in what isn't the easiest of system dashboards to navigate around or your HDTV doesn't support the HDR implementation that Microsoft is using (Unlikely, but if so I'd update your tv's firmware and see if it helps).

 

I doubt we'll see the all digital edition of the Xbox One sticking around. Not only are late comers unlikely to want to forgo physical media, but if Microsoft was serious in making it a success and selling it for several years, they'd of redesigned the system. Instead it appears to literally just be the Xbox One S sans disc drive. There are obvious cost/size reduction potential there that wasn't taken advantage of, which I think tells us what the true purpose of it was. Now that the mission succeeded or failed in testing the waters to see how consumers would react to the choice, the job for it is finished.

 

While cloudy since this generation hasn't been a huge success for MS, my hunch is the Xbox One S itself will stick around as a budget console for a year or two. But for that to happen they'd likely have to drop the price to no more than $200 year round (And hopefully even less during the Christmas season) and the low end option for the next generation Xbox would have to be priced substantially higher. Otherwise there's no niche for it to occupy if the cost difference between it and the lowest cost next gen Xbox isn't substantial.

 

It's much easier to predict what Sony will do, I believe. I don't believe the Pro has any more of a future than the Xbox One X does, but I'm confident we'll see the slim PS4 sticking around and be priced significantly less than Sony's lowest cost PS5 option. It's not even a stretch with over 100 million systems sold to suspect we'll see another PS4 revision to slim it down even further and cut production expenses for Sony, with it sticking around on store shelves for several more years alongside what assuredly will be far more expensive PS5 options. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Atariboy

[godslabrat]

17 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

The All Digital Edition was suppose to be an entry level system primary for streaming video & digital downloads, but as long as there still are Xbox 1 S bundles w/ included games (and a optical drive for playing used games) sitting on shelves selling for a few dollars more...fuhgetaboutit!

 

MS should just reduce the cost of the ADE to no more than $200, same price as a 64Gb Apple TV, and sell it as a low end console with the upcoming Lockhart as the mid-range system for most gamers.

 

And of course the Xbox 1 Series X because hardcore gamers love lots of overkill.

Agreed.  Even $200 is too much of a reach, considering that was the price for a Black Friday S unit, and you can get NOS of discontinued S bundles on amazon for that price... all year long.  The ADE really needs to push aggressively for the $99 price point... even if they have to hover at $130 or $150.  Being within eyesight of $200 is just dumb.

[+wongojack]

On 12/21/2019 at 9:36 PM, Cobra Strike Down said:

Most of what I stated wasn't opinion, you do realize that, right? As I said, you can use the way back machine and find interviews from then current or ex msoft employees that talk about nearly everything I mentioned outside of the giant logo on the pad that was my conjecture. The interviews were back around the end of that generation or so, maybe the last year or so before 360 was introduced?

 

They DID base Live off Seganet. They DID base their easy development on the Dreamcast's easy development. They DID borrow elements of the Dreamcast pad for their controller. And they DID push for Dreamcast backwards compatibility (and failed to obtain it) but instead got exclusives as a sort of "continuing the business relationship" they had developed since Microsoft helped them with their console.

 

I don't understand what was so hard to misunderstand in my post. Thought I made this pretty clear. Unlike the other poster you originally talked to, I'm not saying any of this because of passing observations like "both systems had four controller ports, so there ya go". These are things you can look up if you have the time. I read these interviews years ago.

I'm sure you read such interviews at the time, and I'm sure the marketing team did everything to encourage SEGA's customers  to switch to Microsoft, but the team that came up with the idea were not considering the Dreamcast at all, and in recent interviews I've read, they make no mention of SEGA at all.  Perhaps it is revisionist history, or perhaps Microsoft didn't need Seganet to give them the idea that networked gaming might be a good idea.

[MrMaddog]

21 hours ago, godslabrat said:

Agreed.  Even $200 is too much of a reach, considering that was the price for a Black Friday S unit, and you can get NOS of discontinued S bundles on amazon for that price... all year long.  The ADE really needs to push aggressively for the $99 price point... even if they have to hover at $130 or $150.  Being within eyesight of $200 is just dumb.

Yes, very good point about the pricing.  It should be no higher than $150 at most IMHO but $200 is a conversative guess when you factor in a hard drive that you still need for all those digital downloads (especially w/ Game Pass).

 

At $99, it would have to be a redesigned and much smaller device like Apple TV where you can stream video & run UWA apps...but the SSD wouldn't hold a large amount of Xbox games.  It can still work using Xcloud to stream games instead of downloading them, but it's still in early stages so that's why you won't see something like that from MS for a long while.

 

We all do agree that the ADE should have been redesigned to be smaller and repriced lower...

[HammR25]

I just hope people make skins for the Series X.  I want mine to look like a miniature building with windows.  I've always wanted to play with a building that transforms into a robot.

[godslabrat]

27 minutes ago, HammR25 said:

I just hope people make skins for the Series X.  I want mine to look like a miniature building with windows.  I've always wanted to play with a building that transforms into a robot.

See the movie "Big".

[PlaysWithWolves]

1 hour ago, HammR25 said:

I want mine to look like a miniature building with windows.

 

It already comes with Windows.

 

[Cobra Strike Down]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:55 AM, PlaysWithWolves said:

 

It already comes with Windows.

 

Booooo :throws tomato:

[MrMaddog]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:55 AM, PlaysWithWolves said:

 

It already comes with Windows.

 

[SoundGammon]

Got the HDR to work, had to go to the input settings on the TV and turn on full HDR setting! Works great!

[HammR25]

Since both MS and Sony will be using solid state memory for their storage solutions I wonder how small those drives will be.  I'd be surprised if they're over 1TB.  Also, hooking up a cheap external non-SSD hard drive will defeat the purpose of them bragging about load times on the new systems.  External SSD prices are still quite high as well.

[negative1]

gameplay footage, hands on:

 

later

-1