Is anyone planning on doing the Atari equivalent of The C64 Mini or the new larger one?

[LoTonah]

I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed with the full-size one (I only have the C64 Mini, but I've been seeing a lot of review videos).  I know that the Atari scene is a bit smaller, but I'd totally buy an Atari version if it ever came out.  I don't really care about having the ability to connect tape drives or disk drives, just give me a couple USB ports and an HDMI out with a proper Atari keyboard.  Or even just make a USB Atari keyboard and a small replica case to put a Raspberry Pi into and I'm probably sold!

 

I have almost every North American Atari model, but time is marching on and I guess I could just use an emulator and put stickers on my keyboard, but there's something so much cooler about having stand-alone hardware.

 

So, anyone doing anything like this?

[Rybags]

The 8-bit guy did an OK review of it just the other day.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxx2F4ffmeE

 

Though he didn't delve into compatilibity for things like demos and games relying on VIC exploits and tricks.  But emulation these days is accurate to the point where you'd expect near 100% of software to work.

 

Nice how it also does VIC-20 and you can embed system and config info into the filename rather than have to change settings manually every time.

 

Funny to see how small the actual board is though we've been emulating way more powerful systems on phones for a long time.

 

Negatives - well, it's emulation rather than an ASIC type solution.  There's no cartridge or other expansion ports though nice to have more USB ports than most laptops come with.

 

 

An Atari equivalent?  Well, I'd not get real excited about an emulation box like this one.  Though it would be nice to have a modern day replica of something like a 600XL with some extra bells & whistles.

[Mclaneinc]

Perhaps one done in the US where the market was bigger for Atari but I would not hold your breath for one, I'd say its extremely unlikely that one would arrive, mind you, if they could license Altirra for the core it would at least be stunningly good.

 

Shame as I think it deserves a Classic series version..

[Gunstar]

We already have better than they have in new versions of Atari with the 1088 projects. You just have to build the kits yourself. Not a problem for any serious Atari 8-bit fan that wants new hardware. And if you aren't a serious A8 fan, then have fun with your new C64's! Me personally, I'll stick with OEM equipment from both Commodore and Atari. Especially with Commodore since the "new" C64's don't have the ports for peripherals; they don't pass muster with me mister. I just upgrade and mod the old hardware into something new and better than any "mini" would ever be.

 

Plus, we Atari fans have a brand-new "state-of-the-art" gaming console on the way this coming year, despite all the nay-sayers during it's development, it's being made in the factories NOW and will arrive first-quarter 2020! Do Commodore fans have new tech hardware on their horizon? Don't think so!!! Not to mention Atari "mini" 2600 consoles have been selling for years with multiple versions in the flashback consoles. Atari hasn't been left in the dust, it's so far ahead Commodore will never catch it! So even though the A8 may not see new factory-built versions like the 'mini' and 'The C64' We've been getting all that from Atari's smash hit the 2600! And now something truly modern with the classics still built-in and can be used as a real PC to boot!

 

https://atarivcs.com

Edited December 24, 2019 by Gunstar

[Mclaneinc]

The new console worries me to be honest, the price is top heavy (for me) and its going to have to get a hefty bit of support to make it really viable, but again, that's my viewpoint based only on what has been talked about by devs etc.

 

I await to be surprised...

[Gunstar]

14 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

The new console worries me to be honest, the price is top heavy (for me) and its going to have to get a hefty bit of support to make it really viable, but again, that's my viewpoint based only on what has been talked about by devs etc.

 

I await to be surprised...

Whatever happens, it's a reality, they exist, and if nothing else, the sandbox mode gives you a PC in a console to use however you want, even with Altirra and Steam, etc. So I'm not worried in the least; if it fails, I have a PC with classic Atari games built-in, in an Atari console form factor. If it's a success, fantastic.

 

Either way I'll wait until the price drops though, either from being successful and sticking around so the price comes down, or out of the bargain bin as a PC more powerful than the one I have now. But either way, though excited, I'll wait for the price to drop one way or another.

 

And I bet not a single one of the "devs" you speak of is in developing for the new console. they are just the usual types that want to rain on other parades; as I said, despite ALL the nay-Sayers over the couple years, it's happening. I've never seen so much negativity by people in a console's development in my life, and so far, they have all been proven dead wrong. Including me; I was a nay-Sayer myself until this past summer when the real specs and details started rolling in. Atari changed my mind once I really looked into it, and the best part, for me, is the sandbox mode which insures it won't end up as a door-stop no matter what. Despite the fact that those so-called "devs" treat that bit as a disadvantage instead of an advantage. That is the EXACT reason my mind was changed. At least I keep an open mind and admit when I am wrong.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Gunstar

[TGB1718]

For me bigger is better so I can connect all my devices, so unless it was made with an SIO port I can't really see the point.

[Mclaneinc]

Oh trust me, if its a success I'll put my hands up straight away and applaud it, I just worry about the 2600 connection, we have had the mini 2600 ages ago but I await with interest to see what the core side of t can produce, a kickass Tempest Extreme would be a great start. Not seen if there's any beta footage of it in action and if there isn't then that's a bit weird. Regarding the devs, I can't remember where the thread was and if there were any ACTUAL devs from it on there, even if there were they would speak of anything.

 

Matt, the way you are looking at it is the way to go, wait for a price drop and whatever way it pans out for you it will be a winner because of what you can get from it..

 

I'm not crapping on it, I just would hate to see something for Non Atari fans to pin point as a joke, "Oh look another Atari named thing that is duff"...I love my old Atari, (never had a 2600 or 5200 etc) so I want it to be stand out and then when prices drop I'll be waiting

 

 

[Gunstar]

I learned long ago not to care about what non Atari fans say about Atari products. They will never change, even if the new Atari VCS does become a hit, they will still crap all over it and go back to their PS4's and Xbox One's. etc. Let them laugh all they want, Atari fans already know their hate isn't based in any reality. And the younger generations who never grew up with or knew Atari aren't going to care about what some old haters have to say. It will be a hit or a failure based on it's own merits, as most millennial's and whatever the latest generation is called haven't a clue about the old loves and hates from the old computer and console companies that were dead already long before they were born or old enough to care, IMHO. 

 

The reality is this isn't the old Atari, it died a quarter of a century ago, it's a new company with the same name that have a new console that just happens to have some classic Atari hits on it for the older generation mostly. And if people want to hate it because it has a name attached to it that they hate, for whatever illogical reason to start with, that doesn't even exist anymore, then there is nothing anyone can do, let them hate for hate's sake and be the morons they always were.

 

I used to hate Commodore and Nintendo or whatever back when the wars between the companies were still going, and I was young and ignorant, but I grew up and learned, and I like classic Commodore to now, I see no sense in hating anymore, the hate stemmed from jealousy that Atari wasn't on top any more anyway, and not getting the support I saw Commodore and Nintendo get, and that's all gone now anyway, so even though I was young and stupid back then, I've learned now, and it's all moot now anyway.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Gunstar

[Rybags]

I doubt we'll ever see a proper retro tribute computer.

Building in a cart and SIO port would add a lot of cost to something that's already hard to justify buying and they'd be targetting a market that's barely into the thousands worldwide.  Not worth it for something that needs to be a high volume seller to make it's costs back.

[Mclaneinc]

17 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

I used to hate Commodore and Nintendo or whatever back when the wars between the companies were still going, and I was young and ignorant, but I grew up and learned, and I like classic Commodore to now, I see no sense in hating anymore, the hate stemmed from jealousy that Atari wasn't on top any more anyway, and not getting the support I saw Commodore and Nintendo get, and that's all gone now anyway, so even though I was young and stupid back then, I've learned now, and it's all moot now anyway.

 

I was always open to other machine's but it really great to see words like this, never get trapped in to the fan bot set, you simply just lose out on some great bits elsewhere, its always been possible to juggle all the machines and take from each what goodness there is. Warms my heart to hear a person throw the hate away and embrace the goodness....

 

Anyway, to Matt and everyone, MERRY XMAS (or Seasons Greetings if that isn't your thing)

[+toddtmw]

Uhm. What about the Eclaire XL? Modern hardware that has the cartridge port and SIO port and USB ports and HDMI port. It has EVERYTHING the old-school Atari's have and the new bells and whistles of the current hardware mods.

 

I really enjoy mine, and the price was pretty reasonable (especially considering the price of an incognito or similar upgrade for XL)

[Gunstar]

7 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

Uhm. What about the Eclaire XL? Modern hardware that has the cartridge port and SIO port and USB ports and HDMI port. It has EVERYTHING the old-school Atari's have and the new bells and whistles of the current hardware mods.

 

I really enjoy mine, and the price was pretty reasonable (especially considering the price of an incognito or similar upgrade for XL)

Sorry I forgot to mention the Eclaire. I didn't even know of it's existence until after I knew about the 1088 projects...

[ZuluGula]

Electronics is the easiest part. The problem is new case and keyboard. 

[+DrVenkman]

16 minutes ago, ZuluGula said:

The problem is new case and keyboard.

Exactly. People vastly underestimate the cost of injection mold tooling and the setup costs involved in producing new plastics. It’s easily into the 5-figure range these days, sometimes more depending on how big a piece you’ll be producing the geometry (shape) of the piece, its complexity, surface texture, etc. And add in custom key caps for ASCII characters (which means additional cost over using standard keycaps) and the now not-quite-standard key layout, and you’re looking at low-to-mid 6-figure investments even to start up production. An “Atari 800XL Mini” or something, with a simple wedge shape and non-functional fake keyboard like the C64 Mini might be do-able, but I doubt it would sell well enough to lead to a full-size commercial repro.

 

The reality is that while there’s a decent and lively A8 retro scene, the C64’s sales - and hence its nostalgia factor in the target demographics - was an order of magnitude greater.  

 

[+toddtmw]

37 minutes ago, ZuluGula said:

Electronics is the easiest part. The problem is new case and keyboard. 

[ZuluGula]

@toddtmw, good luck selling this to the thousands at Walmart as a new Atari computer for $100.

[+toddtmw]

Why would I want to do that? 😉

 

I understand the issue. I’m saying it could be done. I’m not saying it would be economically viable. I really don’t think the demand would be there. If there was enough demand, that price point might be possible. I do not believe the demand to hit those volumes exists. 
 

don’t even get me started on the potential lawsuits for intellectual property. 

[+davidcalgary29]

8 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

Why would I want to do that? 😉

 

I understand the issue. I’m saying it could be done. I’m not saying it would be economically viable. I really don’t think the demand would be there. If there was enough demand, that price point might be possible. I do not believe the demand to hit those volumes exists. 
 

don’t even get me started on the potential lawsuits for intellectual property. 

I’m sure that this was a major reason why New Atari passed on Curt’s 5200 flashback. The schematics are already (essentially) available, but no one’s going to put up the money to make a mini A8. I’m not seeing anyone push for an Apple II or TI mini either, so it’s not as if the A8 is in a unique situation here.

[Tezz]

I noticed the influx of reviews the past few days. The reproduction case/keyboard makes it appear somewhat appealing but really at the end of the day it's just a cheap board running VICE with latency issues although not so much as the mini. I'd stick with the real hardware.

[Mclaneinc]

Late to the party as always, 2 questions for anyone, how much and who does it (still  Santos?)

[gnusto]

1 hour ago, Tezz said:

the end of the day it's just a cheap board running VICE

This is why I wouldn't want something like this for Atari. I'll stick with my 1088XEL.

 

VICE is an excellent emulator, but it's an emulator, and it will always have frame lag as a result. You do gain the convenience of modern peripherals with something like the C64 Max, which is nice, but it's not worth the trade off of everything you play being slightly off.

 

An FPGA solution like the Eclaire is better than emulation, but much more expensive of course. Also you have to worry about inaccuracies in inter-chip timing (I'm not aware of any on an Eclaire, just that it's a possibility).

 

It would be nice if somebody set up some good molds and found appropriate materials to cast Atari shells that were accurate to either the 800 or XE series; that would be all we need for the equivalent of this. The C64 Max is leveraging VICE on a cheap CPU; that wouldn't be viable for Atari, as the only emulator worth having is Altirra and it's Windows only. No cheap ARM builds.

 

So give me a case with fits for peripheral ports and I'll fit a mini-PC ITX board in there and run Altirra myself, don't need the pre-packaged thing.

[ACML]

They probably won't make an ATARI mini, too few sold.  The C-64 sold 17 million.  Besides, the ATARI 400/800/1200XL and 600/800XL OEM equipment is so reliable, you can still buy the originals and expect them to work.

 

[FifthPlayer]

5 minutes ago, ACML said:

They probably won't make an ATARI mini, too few sold.  The C-64 sold 17 million.  Besides, the ATARI 400/800/1200XL and 600/800XL OEM equipment is so reliable, you can still buy the originals and expect them to work.

 

This is true, but I'd love a modern-day reproduction of the A8 hardware that can easily connect to modern hardware, i.e. something that has HDMI or DisplayPort for AV output and a USB port for attaching keyboards and game controllers.

 

[+toddtmw]

20 minutes ago, FifthPlayer said:

This is true, but I'd love a modern-day reproduction of the A8 hardware that can easily connect to modern hardware, i.e. something that has HDMI or DisplayPort for AV output and a USB port for attaching keyboards and game controllers.

 

As people have stated above, this exists in several forms now. Just not easily available and not for $100.