doubledown's Jaguar Edition - VVG Enhanced Controller - (Arcade Stick)

[Iwantgames:)]

[doubledown]

It would definitely be a little more complicated if all 8 keypad buttons are required.  Does anybody know if you can press #2 (shoot up) and #4 (shoot left) to shoot diagonally up/left...or do you have to press #1 for this.  If it can work with a 2 combined buttons, then it's obviously no problem.  

[joeyaage]

I am a big fan of twin sticks! To complicate things further Llamatron for the ST and now Jaguar was able to use two sticks. Just press joystick 2 fire button to start the game. Don't know if this is in the Jaguar version, though.

[doubledown]

So who knows what the control-scheme for Llamatron is...same as Total Carnage (keypad button directional firing)?  Can anybody provide info or the manual page(s) scan regarding this?

 

Additionally regarding Total Carnage, does anybody know if you can press #2 (shoot up) and #4 (shoot left)simultaneously to shoot diagonally up/left...or do you have to press #1 for this?

 

This could make a twin-stick Jaguar controller a possibility and/or a necessity!

[Cobra Kai]

19 hours ago, doubledown said:

So who knows what the control-scheme for Llamatron is...same as Total Carnage (keypad button directional firing)?  Can anybody provide info or the manual page(s) scan regarding this?

 

Additionally regarding Total Carnage, does anybody know if you can press #2 (shoot up) and #4 (shoot left)simultaneously to shoot diagonally up/left...or do you have to press #1 for this?

 

This could make a twin-stick Jaguar controller a possibility and/or a necessity!

Total Carnage does not have twin stick capability. It uses the keypad to fire in 8 directions. Llamatron utilizes the player-2 port to enable firing, for a true twin stick option.

 

the only way to get Total Carnage to work as a twin stick is to wire a second joystick up to the 8 directions of the keypad, but that makes it a dedicated Total Carnage controller. Another member has done this. I would love one of your sticks, with a twin stick that plugged into port 2 so I could enjoy Llamatron.  Count me in for a stick please, and I have donor controllers.

[Cobra Kai]

I could do some testing and answer your question about the keypad functionality of Total Carnage later tonight if you want. I've never tested if you can combine the cardinal directions to create diagonals. There is a member who created a custom Total Carnage stick, perhaps he could provide his schematic. If I were at my home computer I could help find that stuff.

[doubledown]

14 minutes ago, Kobra Kai said:

Total Carnage does not have twin stick capability. It uses the keypad to fire in 8 directions. Llamatron utilizes the player-2 port to enable firing, for a true twin stick option.

 

the only way to get Total Carnage to work as a twin stick is to wire a second joystick up to the 8 directions of the keypad, but that makes it a dedicated Total Carnage controller. Another member has done this. I would love one of your sticks, with a twin stick that plugged into port 2 so I could enjoy Llamatron.  Count me in for a stick please, and I have donor controllers.

It wouldn't be a "dedicated" Total Carnage or Llamatron only controller.  Wiring the 2nd joystick to the keypad directions, makes it compatible with all Jaguar games, plus makes it a Total Carnage twin stick controller.  Wiring the 2nd joystick to a separate cable/plug for controller port 2, makes it compatible with all Jaguar games, plus makes it a Llamatron twin stick controller.  Installing a switch to swap between 2 sets of outputs, makes it compatible with all Jaguar games, plus makes it a twin stick controller for Total Carnage & Llamatron.  

 

3 minutes ago, Kobra Kai said:

I could do some testing and answer your question about the keypad functionality of Total Carnage later tonight if you want. I've never tested if you can combine the cardinal directions to create diagonals. There is a member who created a custom Total Carnage stick, perhaps he could provide his schematic. If I were at my home computer I could help find that stuff.

I found grips03 thread where he made a twin stick controller for the Jaguar for Total Carnage, and he mentions he wired the 2nd stick as the 2,4,6,8 keypad keys, so presumably you only need the 4 contacts, which can be combined for diagonals, but if you have the game and can test this for verification I would appreciate it.  

[Cobra Kai]

It seems you have your answers! You can trust grips. 

 

Regarding the dedicated thing, I just meant the second stick obviously. But, if you can make the second stick have varying functionality, that would be something indeed. One thing to keep in mind with Llamatron is you need to press player-2 start to enable twin stick mode. That means the user would need to do a hot swap of his controller after hitting start OR an additional Player -2 start button installed on your design.

 

I will still test Total Carnage later just to verify.

[doubledown]

18 minutes ago, Kobra Kai said:

It seems you have your answers! You can trust grips. 

 

Regarding the dedicated thing, I just meant the second stick obviously. But, if you can make the second stick have varying functionality, that would be something indeed. One thing to keep in mind with Llamatron is you need to press player-2 start to enable twin stick mode. That means the user would need to do a hot swap of his controller after hitting start OR an additional Player -2 start button installed on your design.

 

I will still test Total Carnage later just to verify.

I wouldn't go to all this trouble to require hot-swapping cables, I would just add a P2 start button, easy enough, just need to know which button this is.  The only concern with a twin stick model would be C/B/A button placement for non twin stick jaguar games, and keypad size/placement.  

Edited January 15, 2020 by doubledown

[Cobra Kai]

4 minutes ago, doubledown said:

I wouldn't go to all this trouble to require hot-swapping cables, I would just add a P2 start button, easy enough.  The only concern with a twin stick model would be button placement for non twin stick jaguar games, and keypad size/placement.  

Sounds great man! You can wire a player 2 Start using the same controller pcb? I was just concerned if you would need a second pcb to do it. 

 

You're stuff looks fantastic by the way. It's an exciting prospect to have an opportunity out there to get a good quality stick for the Jaguar. I tried to get MAS to make me one but they just wouldn't do it. 

[doubledown]

I would need a 2nd controller cable, for Llamatron use (and I won't use PC cable hoods with locking screws, only the molded Jaguar ones), so I would use the PCB from that donor controller for the wiring connections.  Fortunately stock Jaguar control pads are pretty inexpensive.  

[Cobra Kai]

8 hours ago, doubledown said:

I would need a 2nd controller cable, for Llamatron use (and I won't use PC cable hoods with locking screws, only the molded Jaguar ones), so I would use the PCB from that donor controller for the wiring connections.  Fortunately stock Jaguar control pads are pretty inexpensive.  

Just wanted to verify that Total Carnage does recognize the combining of the 4 cardinal directions to create diagonals, when using the keypad firing option. Hope that helps.

[doubledown]

So you're saying that you've checked, and if you press say 2 and 4 simultaneously, it's the same as pressing 1, which would shoot diagonally up/left? If that's the case then it's definitely no problem for Total Carnage's twin stick control.  Do you have Llamatron to know what button has to be pressed on the player 2 controller to start a game with twin stick (2 controller port) control?  Are any other controller 2 buttons required for any part of the game?

[Cobra Kai]

1 hour ago, doubledown said:

So you're saying that you've checked, and if you press say 2 and 4 simultaneously, it's the same as pressing 1, which would shoot diagonally up/left? If that's the case then it's definitely no problem for Total Carnage's twin stick control.  Do you have Llamatron to know what button has to be pressed on the player 2 controller to start a game with twin stick (2 controller port) control?  Are any other controller 2 buttons required for any part of the game?

That is correct: 2 + 4 = diagonal up/left. 2 + 6  up/right, 8 + 4 down/left, 8 + 6 down/right.

 

Llamatron: Using controller port 2, pressing the B button starts a game in twin stick control mode. After that you just use both controller d-pads. 

[doubledown]

Thanks for checking all this.

 

Its definitely possible then to make a twin-stick Jaguar controller with both Total Carnage and Llamatron compatibility.  Obviously it would add to the cost...2 donor controllers instead of 1, the 8-pole latching & indicating switch I would use to flip-flop the wiring costs about $20, then the 2nd stick, the extra button, and then considerations for how to make up the cables (cable set).  Would easily bump the price to near/over $400, depending on a few other factors/options.  

[RARusk]

Why donor controllers? Do they still make the chips that go inside the controllers? If so you can probably make your own boards that would make it easier to build custom controllers around. Just my two cents.

[doubledown]

I'd still need the controller cable with molded end, and at $20 - $25 per donor, its a minor cost in the grand scheme of the overall price.  

[RARusk]

Forgot about the cable part. Although I wonder how much it would cost to make one of those with the molded end.

[doubledown]

If you're making 1, probably $1000, if you're making 100,000 probably about $1.  I can & do make up my own 9-pin cables:

 

 

Because I found a good 9 conductor cable, and 2 piece black plastic connector/hood that looks similar to a molded end...when compared to a PC hood end with locking screws.  But the company that makes the connector parts only makes the 9-pin versions (male and female), but no Gameport 15 pin or VGA style 15 pin versions.  And at about $7 in parts per connector end, plus $1.10 per foot of cable, its certainly not a "cheap" solution.  But I make a lot of ColecoVision controllers, and its just nicer to work with good new cable, and be able to make controller cables any length I want vs. being stuck with 6' minus internal controller wiring loss.   

[MAYAman]

This is amazing. I'd love to have a custom panel for Tempest for my arcade cabinet. Going to message you. 

[SlidellMan]

This is what the Jaguar sorely needed.