Xebec Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Hi folks - I have a ~ March 2018 Antonia upgrade I never installed, and was getting ready to install on an 800XL when I realized I have a 1200XL here as well. I think all of the following are true, could someone please verify? - Antonia will plug-into the 1200XL and will provide .ATR support when used with a SIDE2 - An Antonia 'bought for an 800XL' is plugged in the same way as an 800XL (just locate the CPU and the proper CPLD) - The 1200XL video output has a bunch of issues, but wiring in a UAV with chroma/luma support will give good output - For playing games/demos -- there's no real drawback to a 1200XL in this configuration, over an 800XL? - Using an ANTIC PAL on a 1200XL has the same effect as 800XL? (correct timing, colors may be slightly off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleton Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 For improved video output on the 1200XL I've done the Clearpic 2002 mod on two different machines with pretty great results. If you're looking for perfection I would recommend the Sophia DVI mod from Simius. It's absolutely gorgeous and is an easy install. Clearpic 2002: http://retrobits.net/atari/clearpic.shtml?fbclid=IwAR3xJOYx3xzsEVJB8r7RKAgsBCS9bq3rM1qJPXdRbsBeQBArGfwBo-PybbM Sophia: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 13 hours ago, Xebec said: Antonia will plug-into the 1200XL and will provide .ATR support when used with a SIDE2 It will not. You need U1MB for that. 13 hours ago, Xebec said: An Antonia 'bought for an 800XL' is plugged in the same way as an 800XL (just locate the CPU and the proper CPLD) AFAIK, although since the stock 1200XL MMU is different to the 800XL MMU, I'm unsure if this presents any issues for Antonia. The 1200XL also lacks the EXTSEL signal; I have no idea if Antonia requires it. 13 hours ago, Xebec said: The 1200XL video output has a bunch of issues, but wiring in a UAV with chroma/luma support will give good output ClearPic (see above) is excellent, and if you want to use the existing video jack rather than hacking a DVI connector into the back of the case, UAV is a solid choice (s-video quality will be top-notch). 13 hours ago, Xebec said: For playing games/demos -- there's no real drawback to a 1200XL in this configuration, over an 800XL? Big problems with a stock 1200XL when it comes to games and demos are the fact it's NTSC, and the fact the OS has a few compatibility issues. Antonia or U1MB will take care of the latter (since you'll be able to run an XL/XE OS easily), and - as mentioned - U1MB will provide the optimal HDD experience when coupled with SIDE2, and is one of the only workable HDD options on a machine with no PBI expansion port. 13 hours ago, Xebec said: Using an ANTIC PAL on a 1200XL has the same effect as 800XL? (correct timing, colors may be slightly off) Plugging a PAL ANTIC into a 1200XL will achieve the same overall result as putting a PAL ANTIC into an NTSC 800XL. You'll get 'NTSC 50' video. It's possible to completely convert the 1200XL into a machine 100 per cent equivalent to the PAL 800XL (aside from the lack of a PBI port, which you can add if you're feeling exceptionally ambitious), and if you opt for U1MB, you'll need to convert the machine to a single-OS ROM, XL/XE MMU configuration before you start anyway. http://www.retrobits.net/atari/pbi.shtml You essentially need to perform the first half of the above mod (leaving off the PBI connector and the internal BASIC ROM) before installing U1MB. It's possible to fully convert the machine to PAL by replacing the master crystal, GTIA and ANTIC, and building the PAL colourburst circuit (which requires a secondary crystal). DropCheck used to sell PAL GTIA adapters but sadly they're no longer available. The adapters sat under the GTIA chip and provided all the PAL circuitry (and the crystal) to properly drive a PAL GTIA. You just had to move one jumper on the motherboard (aside from the jumpers already changed to accommodate the single-chip OS ROM). It would be nice to see another source of these adapters, since I don't observe them suddenly becoming surplus to requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Colleton + FJC - Thank you for the awesome responses! This helps a ton. I'm lucky enough to have an extra tube monitor or two (w/Chroma and Luma support), but I think I might also order a Sophia for future use.. I do also have an AVGCart which I guess could give me limited .ATR support with the Antonia at least. I appreciate the links for the PBI upgrade for the 1200XL, but that's definitely beyond my ambition :). I might someday set up an Atari 8bit BBS again, though I'd probably use an 800XL rather than a 1200XL or 800 just because I have more spares of 800XLs :). I think for 2020 my two main 8bit machines will end up being: 800 + Incognito + SIDE2 for NTSC software and general usage (Wifi232).. 1200XL + Antonia + AVGCart + PAL ANTIC for playing PAL specific demos and games.. Thanks again! 1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said: It will not. You need U1MB for that. AFAIK, although since the stock 1200XL MMU is different to the 800XL MMU, I'm unsure if this presents any issues for Antonia. The 1200XL also lacks the EXTSEL signal; I have no idea if Antonia requires it. ClearPic (see above) is excellent, and if you want to use the existing video jack rather than hacking a DVI connector into the back of the case, UAV is a solid choice (s-video quality will be top-notch). Big problems with a stock 1200XL when it comes to games and demos are the fact it's NTSC, and the fact the OS has a few compatibility issues. Antonia or U1MB will take care of the latter (since you'll be able to run an XL/XE OS easily), and - as mentioned - U1MB will provide the optimal HDD experience when coupled with SIDE2, and is one of the only workable HDD options on a machine with no PBI expansion port. Plugging a PAL ANTIC into a 1200XL will achieve the same overall result as putting a PAL ANTIC into an NTSC 800XL. You'll get 'NTSC 50' video. It's possible to completely convert the 1200XL into a machine 100 per cent equivalent to the PAL 800XL (aside from the lack of a PBI port, which you can add if you're feeling exceptionally ambitious), and if you opt for U1MB, you'll need to convert the machine to a single-OS ROM, XL/XE MMU configuration before you start anyway. http://www.retrobits.net/atari/pbi.shtml You essentially need to perform the first half of the above mod (leaving off the PBI connector and the internal BASIC ROM) before installing U1MB. It's possible to fully convert the machine to PAL by replacing the master crystal, GTIA and ANTIC, and building the PAL colourburst circuit (which requires a secondary crystal). DropCheck used to sell PAL GTIA adapters but sadly they're no longer available. The adapters sat under the GTIA chip and provided all the PAL circuitry (and the crystal) to properly drive a PAL GTIA. You just had to move one jumper on the motherboard (aside from the jumpers already changed to accommodate the single-chip OS ROM). It would be nice to see another source of these adapters, since I don't observe them suddenly becoming surplus to requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Using Dropcheck‘s board the 1200XL PAL conversion including stereo and UAV was a breeze. Mine is one of the 1200XLs which already have a 28-pin OS socket, which made it super easy. I also wonder why it is not available any more. Maybe too few European customers? I still have one spare as I used SCCC to convert a 400 but am reluctant to sell it off in case another NTSC machine comes my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I have a 1200xl with an Antonio upgrade in it. I plugged it in, remove both OS chips because they are not needed since the OS is in the Antonio and it worked. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 2:41 PM, Frankie said: I have a 1200xl with an Antonio upgrade in it. I plugged it in, remove both OS chips because they are not needed since the OS is in the Antonio and it worked. Frank Thanks Frank - can you tell me how you got the Antonia in there? It looks like it will block the MMU chip so I'm not sure how i'd connect Antonia to the MMU? Did you use a riser or two on the CPU socket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 The MMU is not needed with Antonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, JR> said: The MMU is not needed with Antonia. My Antonia has a ribbon and a 20-pin plugin that comes off of it - I thought that went to the MMU socket? "This allow a user to add memory to an Atari 8-Bit computer by removing two chips(MMU and CPU)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Yeah, It's been a while since I installed one. The chip is not required, but the plug does need to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Also pretty sure the 1200xl would need to be modded to use the 800xl MMU, or the ribbon cable from the MMU socket to the Antonia would need to be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Xebec said: Thanks Frank - can you tell me how you got the Antonia in there? It looks like it will block the MMU chip so I'm not sure how i'd connect Antonia to the MMU? Did you use a riser or two on the CPU socket? I used an extra socket on the CPU to raise it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 14 hours ago, JR> said: Also pretty sure the 1200xl would need to be modded to use the 800xl MMU, or the ribbon cable from the MMU socket to the Antonia would need to be changed. I didn't have to make any modifications. It plugged right in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Not sure then. I know when I ordered mine, he said there were different versions for different computers, so he needed to know what I was installing it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dankcomputing Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 I really regret not buying those 1200XL PAL conversion boards when I had the chance. Is there even a schematic available anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 (edited) On 12/27/2019 at 12:09 PM, slx said: Using Dropcheck‘s board the 1200XL PAL conversion including stereo and UAV was a breeze. Mine is one of the 1200XLs which already have a 28-pin OS socket, which made it super easy. I also wonder why it is not available any more. Maybe too few European customers? I still have one spare as I used SCCC to convert a 400 but am reluctant to sell it off in case another NTSC machine comes my way. I converted my 1200XL to PAL (using Dropcheck's board) and I'm not European. I also converted my 800 to PAL with PAL CPU board and a new PAL crystal on the mobo. I have a PAL OS board, but never used it as I got an Incognito before I got around to the PAL mod. Two converted PAL machines in NTSC land. I have Sophia 2 in the 800 and for the 1200XL I did Supervideo 2.1 mod (1200XL enhanced version) and S-video is fed to my composite/S-video-to-VGA adapter which handles both NTSC and PAL and upscales and de-interlaces. I am about to convert the 1200XL back to NTSC though. For one, I only need one PAL machine for some stuff and I want an NTSC machine again for other stuff. Also because since the boards are no longer available from Dropcheck, I need one for a 1200XL I'm restoring that's recipient is in the U.K., and he would like a PAL 1200XL. For my 800, I obviously use the Incognito and SIDE combo that is built in, and The!Cart, both of which handle all my file type needs from .xex to .ATR. to .rom .car and all the rest. I also have a PBI on my 800 thanks to Incognito and use the Turbo Freezer with it that has all it's abilities. On my 1200XL I did the complete PBI upgrade and went beyond with a real PBI edge connector. So for extended memory and OS's I use Syscheck 2 XL off the PBI and I reverted my 1200XL's Rambo upgrade back to 64K. I have 576K available. I use an Atarimax MyIDE II for all my ATR XEX and ROM needs as well as HDD with SpartaDOS X (same on the 800&Incognito) or MyBIOS sometimes. I have an Atarimax 32-in-1 OS installed as well and Pokeymax. It will be getting a VBXE too and possibly a Rapidus. Edited November 16, 2021 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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