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Graphic mode advice for new game

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3 hours ago, popmilo said:

Ok, still not perfect (there are more than 4 colors in those images and I didn't count pixels for exact size, but this is what is like atari 100% easy gfx to make (160x114 in 4 colors in bitmap double scanline mode):

Then ... the 160x114 screen results in 1/4 or 1/5 of the original screen.

 

It is impractical at the beginning of certain combats (the enemies patrol from one place to another, and when they discover the hero they change their behavior), or when entering a screen, see how a door opens at the other end of the screen.

 

Thank you very much for these tests. They are giving me many ideas.

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1 minute ago, explorer said:

Then ... the 160x114 screen results in 1/4 or 1/5 of the original screen.

 

It is impractical at the beginning of certain combats (the enemies patrol from one place to another, and when they discover the hero they change their behavior), or when entering a screen, see how a door opens at the other end of the screen.

 

Thank you very much for these tests. They are giving me many ideas.

Yeah, it could be a problem if original game was designed with that screen space in mind. So what, game would only be little harder ;)

 

Glad you like it :)
Watch this :)

 

Msx screen, converted to pal-blending mode with lowest luma level == zero:

image.thumb.png.9b5ef2d8f49f47faac87a86b99172c36.png

  

Same screen with lowest luma == 2 (makes darkest colors little more visible. Best to test on real crt than it's obvious which one is best. Could even be an option in the game itself):

image.thumb.png.2298a94094742492ec78d0072daf3f2c.png

 

Both examples as XEX files for you to test:

sword_luma_0.xex

sword_luma_2.xex

 

Don't know if this game is the best to test this mode, but imho it shows lots of promise.

ps. Warning, this mode takes a lot of free cycles during displayed scanlines (3 color registers changed each scanline), but imho game with slower pace without crazy ammount of soft sprites can be made for sure.

Even PMs can be added on top for more colors (for main player etc).

 

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Nice, but too big. And doesn't work on NTSC, and doesn't work on most s-video inputs.

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I am also not able to see it in the atari800 emulator in Linux.

I only see the last line of counters.

Or maybe I haven't found the right combination of display options. They are enough.

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Don't know about not working..
Me only have 800xl pal over here + crt. Works perfect.

 

And test in newest atari800 (windows sdl port) in ntsc mode shows this:
image.thumb.png.fbd497bd45f5605535a54a34f61a1244.png

 

Still looking cool to me :)
Chosen colors are nto perfect, it's just  first combo of luma+chroma that looked kinda ok with that one screen.

About the size, yeah main character does look big... But I can imagine that guy going left-right, up down, always hanging back in screen where he's coming from, so most of screen width and height is in front of him.
Again, maybe not this game but some other with similar gfx. Best would be custom drawn for Atari, not a conversion.

 

Cheers and good night !

 

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On 1/2/2020 at 11:30 AM, emkay said:

 

Do you really believe in Unicorns?

 

On the technical side, if you use 160 pixel width, the game has to be 40 bytes wide, not 32. 

Particular Crownland shows how things can be spoiled. The Demo promised the game of the century, and ended up in 32 bytes width, killing a lot of details and gaming fun.

Till today I have not seen a game running on a stock Atari, using "your" Sprite-solution, 40 bytes wide screens  at a reliable framerate. 

Using hires at 32 bytes width allows the needed details, saves a lot CPU cycles and so on. 

 

The Speccy version is what is possible. 

The MSX2 Version, well, the MSX2 has far better Sprites than the C64.

 

Also, you have to take care a lot of using the needed colors. That Wonderboy Hoax in the other thread shows all possible mistakes that could be done without even a single working game screen is there.  

 

 

 

Ow! owowowow! 

a supercoder on teaching mode again! the only one that calls all other coders "jesters" - but beeing the one.

lets bring again your tremendous design/code/project work:

https://demozoo.org/sceners/35955/

 

Its like unlimited source of awesomeness

 

 

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7 hours ago, popmilo said:

Ok, still not perfect (there are more than 4 colors in those images and I didn't count pixels for exact size, but this is what is like atari 100% easy gfx to make (160x114 in 4 colors in bitmap double scanline mode):
image.png.212918619562b85ea543997e138f51e4.png
 

Thanks for illustrating what I already wrote here:

IMHO over-scan should be possible too...

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1 hour ago, solo/ng said:

Ow! owowowow! 

a supercoder on teaching mode again! the only one that calls all other coders "jesters" - but beeing the one.

lets bring again your tremendous design/code/project work:

https://demozoo.org/sceners/35955/

 

Its like unlimited source of awesomeness

 

 

 

Not sure what you caused to derail the thread, but surely one part is some shifted recognition.

When do we get finished Stuff by our Majesty himself?

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, solo/ng said:

Ow! owowowow! 

a supercoder on teaching mode again! the only one that calls all other coders "jesters" - but beeing the one.

 

17 minutes ago, emkay said:

Not sure what you caused to derail the thread, but surely one part is some shifted recognition.

When do we get finished Stuff by our Majesty himself?

 

Enough, from both of you.

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1 hour ago, Irgendwer said:

Thanks for illustrating what I already wrote here:

IMHO over-scan should be possible too...

 

 

And now you are kidding ?

 

There are a lot games that would work great in Antic D or even Antic 5 , but particular for games that live by the shown details you point to the low resolution with scrolling ?

Reminds me of Thrust. THE game that could have run greatly in High Resolution with PMg for enhancements, turned into that bizarre game.

Edited by emkay

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The link that our nice friend has posted, points to some special picture...

Using the Atari's hardware this way, would allow to have several 4 color moving objects , or better "real Sprites" available. 

So how many games do we have using that ?

 

It's absolutely unthinkable but there are ....

 

 

 

hi4.png

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5 hours ago, emkay said:

The link that our nice friend has posted, points to some special picture...

You have too many nice friends for anybody to understand which post or link you are talking about.

A little help from your side would be a real improvement in communication for everybody following this thread.

Edited by DjayBee

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57 minutes ago, DjayBee said:

You have too many nice friends for anybody to understand which post or link to are talking about.

A little help from your side would be a real improvement in communication for everybody following this thread.

It's that Demozoo link in post #56. Seems some people did put some of my stuff there. Some of it is very experimental. Some of it is intentional.

Communications from my side were restricted, because there are too many people here in the Forums, feeling the need to be insulted by any written word they don't understand. Not to mention that some of them blame my "bad English" but don't get a single sentence sorted correctly. Putting words to my mouth that I never said.

 

"The Sword of Ianna" uses masking, as there are elements in front of the "Software Sprites" . So I wouldn't expect that solution in that game.

It's just an explanation to give impression.

Possibly it could be adapted in parts of the game.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, emkay said:

Not to mention that some of them blame my "bad English" but don't get a single sentence sorted correctly. Putting words to my mouth that I never said.

Yeah that must be it. You're just so misunderstood :roll: .

 

I have a strong suspicion that it would still come across the same in German ;-) .

 

Sorry I'm bad -- this is off topic. But it's just so much fun to poke back at the busy little squirrel with sooooo many friends, and even more opinions.

 

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7 hours ago, mytek said:

Yeah that must be it. You're just so misunderstood :roll: .

 

I have a strong suspicion that it would still come across the same in German ;-) .

 

Sorry I'm bad -- this is off topic. But it's just so much fun to poke back at the busy little squirrel with sooooo many friends, and even more opinions.

 

 

Thanks for that great example of how it works. 

DJAYBEE asked me why I'm not explaining things more exactly. I'm answering him about the issue with "our best friend" who mixes up things continuously. They were (also) no native English speakers and have their own preset, which causes problems already.

So why did you now write here ? Did you feel addressed by my term of not being able to put a single sentence together?

And additionally you get support by someone who has not the slightest clue, giving a like to your needless post. 

 

WHY isn't it possible to have straight discussions of what could be the best solution, without a derailing by people who just think of having an attitude to write or act on a thread?

If there was at least some useful content for the thread, no problem.   

 

 

 

 

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