doubledown's 5200 Edition - VVG Paddle Controller

[doubledown]

I figured I’d try my hand at making a few different 5200 controllers, and as a Paddle Controller was never commercially available…I figured I’d start there.  So unveiling my - 5200 S.S. Edition – VVG Paddle Controller:

 

 

I found a few examples online of how others have done something similar, but as I wanted a “full-featured” & “stand-alone” 5200 handheld Paddle Controller, I wasn’t going to be able to start with any existing controller as a donor.  So the base enclosure is a Hammond Mfg. black anodized, extruded aluminum enclosure, with aluminum end plates and a slide-out aluminum belly plate.  Needless to say the enclosure is extremely robust, machines very well, and is only slightly larger than a normal CX-52. 

 

 

Normally the selection of a potentiometer for the control in a paddle controller is kind of a no-brainer.  Pick one with the resistance value that you require, and that has the physical attributes that will allow for its installation in your project.  But when researching paddle controllers others have made/modified for the 5200 and 2600, I had read complaints that some felt the controls were too sensitive for some games or not sensitive enough for others.  So I chose a 2-Gang, 500k ohm linear potentiometer wired through a SPDT switch, so that I can switch between 500k ohm and 1M ohm at the push of a switch.   The 500k ohm setting is less “touchy” and allows for finer movements and control, while the 1M ohm setting allows for super quick on-screen movements, like those necessary in the higher levels of Kaboom!  The resistance selection switch is located on the lower end plate and is protected from accidental in-game switching, by a clear flip-cover.

 

 

The switch to the right of the resistance selection switch is a SP3T (ON) – ON – (ON) paddle rocker switch, which is wired as the controller’s Up/Down controls.  This allows me to maneuver around my AtariMax Ultimate SD Multi-Cart menu line by line for game selection.

 

For the games I intend to use this with, I don’t know that I really need both 5200 buttons, but I figured as I was going all out, I might as well include both the Top & Bottom buttons…

 

 

…and to make it ambidextrous, I installed them on both sides:

 

 

The side buttons are Sanwa SDM-18 arcade test buttons.  They feature concave plungers for a great vintage feel, and have a nice light/short press to make the contacts. 

 

Of course it wouldn’t be a “full-featured” & “stand-alone” 5200 controller if it didn’t have its own 12 button keypad and Start/Pause/Reset buttons, so I installed a 4x4 membrane keypad with a custom overlay modeled after the original CX-52 buttons.  This allows for all game selections and auxiliary controls, without the need for a wye cable and/or a 2^nd controller to be used in tandem. 

 

 

Lastly as I don’t normally sit within 2’ of my gaming consoles, and I don’t like using extension cables if I don’t have to, I bought and wired a 10’ 5200/Neo-Geo extension cable for the cord w/ molded plug end.  The plug end has the longer/deeper cut required for the Neo-Geo, but I don’t have any issue with it on my 4-Port. 

 

I think the control knob itself has a good vintage look, and I like the aluminum disc in the center, but I think I’m going to keep looking for something different.  The potentiometer has a standard ¼” shaft so there are lots of options on the market…I’ll see if I can find something I like any better. 

 

Additionally I’m going to make an inline 5200-to-2600 adapter cable so that I can use this on/with with Atari 2600/8-bit games, and I'll make a properly pinned wye cable so that I can plug (2) of these into (1) 2600/8-Bit controller port, for 2-player 2600/8-bit games. 

 

Enjoy!

[0078265317]

WOW super nice.  You thought of eveything.  How much did it cost you to put all this together?

[Swami]

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

I figured I’d try my hand at making a few different 5200 controllers, and as a Paddle Controller was never commercially available…I figured I’d start there.  So unveiling my - 5200 S.S. Edition – VVG Paddle Controller:

 

 

Enjoy!

Nice! Is the up/down switch latched or momentary? Do you plan on using it with Pole Position? Using a PSX to 5200 adapter with some controllers, I have sometimes encountered where the switch to either hi or low gear does not hold and always flips back to the same gear. Other controllers work just fine with these adapters. Has to do with the controller's resistance since there aren't trims on the PSX adapters or controllers.

[doubledown]

2 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

WOW super nice.  You thought of eveything.  How much did it cost you to put all this together?

It would be a ballpark guess at this moment, but I think the cost of the hardware was around $90-$100.  It could obviously be cheaper with cheaper components, or less features...but this is the way I wanted it.  

 

1 hour ago, Swami said:

Nice! Is the up/down switch latched or momentary? Do you plan on using it with Pole Position? Using a PSX to 5200 adapter with some controllers, I have sometimes encountered where the switch to either hi or low gear does not hold and always flips back to the same gear. Other controllers work just fine with these adapters. Has to do with the controller's resistance since there aren't trims on the PSX adapters or controllers.

Yes the Up/Down switch is an (ON)-ON-(ON) switch, where as the (ON) positions are momentary...think of it as small spring-to-center 2-way joystick.  I've currently have a 1K resistor for Up, 250K for center/neutral (which puts it slightly high of center on my console), and 1M for Down.  I first tried a 500k for Down, but it wouldn't work consistently.  I thought about installing a trimmer pot for the center/neutral position after I ordered these parts, and will do some more testing to determine if it's necessary.  

[+sramirez2008]

 My word! This controller looks great. I now have paddle envy.

[Swami]

28 minutes ago, doubledown said:

It would be a ballpark guess at this moment, but I think the cost of the hardware was around $90-$100.  It could obviously be cheaper with cheaper components, or less features...but this is the way I wanted it.  

 

Yes the Up/Down switch is an (ON)-ON-(ON) switch, where as the (ON) positions are momentary...think of it as small spring-to-center 2-way joystick.  I've currently have a 1K resistor for Up, 250K for center/neutral (which puts it slightly high of center on my console), and 1M for Down.  I first tried a 500k for Down, but it wouldn't work consistently.  I thought about installing a trimmer pot for the center/neutral position after I ordered these parts, and will do some more testing to determine if it's necessary.  

The best thing about this is it has everything the paddles built from an original controller have, but the quality of the controller is much better. I've always thought that paddles I've seen made from original controllers are hobbled by having the issues with the original controller (mushy side buttons, high maintenance on keypad buttons).

 

BTW, what is the origin of the keypad. Did you make the overlay yourself or do you buy them like that somehow?

[doubledown]

I figured "go big...or go home".  Obviously without a purpose engineered molded plastic housing, something like this will always have a sort of "homebrew" appearance, but I did the best I could with what I could find.  

 

2 minutes ago, Swami said:

The best thing about this is it has everything the paddles built from an original controller have, but the quality of the controller is much better. I've always thought that paddles I've seen made from original controllers are hobbled by having the issues with the original controller (mushy side buttons, high maintenance on keypad buttons)

That was my exact same thought, I've seen others convert CX-52 joysticks to paddles (which can look great/amazing), but I didn't want the hassle/headaches of the old buttons and flex-circuits and whatnot.  I've built too many controllers recently with all new parts, and let me assure you its an absolute joy to not have to deal with older and/or temperamental components.  

[David Alexander]

Wow and wow. Have to share this

[doubledown]

9 hours ago, Swami said:

BTW, what is the origin of the keypad. Did you make the overlay yourself or do you buy them like that somehow?

The membrane keypad is made by Parallax I believe, and it had a generic black, with blue and red button overlay.  I peeled the original off, drew up the new one to "match" the CX-52, then its inkjet photo printed, laminated, and adhered to the membrane assembly.  This is the same thing I do with my ColecoVision controllers that use a membrane keypad.  

 

2 hours ago, David Alexander said:

Wow and wow. Have to share this

Thanks.  Once I do some more testing with it on my console (to see if I need to change/alter anything), I'd like to send this out to someone who has multiple 5200s for further testing, feedback and opinions, due to the analog nature of the 5200 consoles.  

[David Alexander]

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

The membrane keypad is made by Parallax I believe, and it had a generic black, with blue and red button overlay.  I peeled the original off, drew up the new one to "match" the CX-52, then its inkjet photo printed, laminated, and adhered to the membrane assembly.  This is the same thing I do with my ColecoVision controllers that use a membrane keypad.  

 

Thanks.  Once I do some more testing with it on my console (to see if I need to change/alter anything), I'd like to send this out to someone who has multiple 5200s for further testing, feedback and opinions, due to the analog nature of the 5200 consoles.  

I have a two 4 ports and a 2 port but I am sure there are people who have more than that.

[doubledown]

Ok, so I did some "research" on games that people mention as playable on the 5200 with a paddle controller, and here's what I personally found:

 

Chicken - Perfect with the paddle, 500k seems fine, 1M offers speedier movements, but unnecessary at least initially...I didn't play/test too long

Kaboom! - Perfect with the paddle, 500k is great for the first 2-3 boards, but then jumping to 1M is necessary (which is possible during game play)

Super Breakout - Perfect with the paddle, 500k or 1M both seem usable, just depends on how much rotation of the knob you want to manipulate

 

Moon Patrol - Not bad with the paddle, I prefer a joystick, but a suitable alternative

 

Asteroids

Galaxian

Gorf

Space Invaders

Tempest...I don't care for these with the paddle controller.  One might think that Asteroids and Tempest would be perfect (because of the "rotation"), but as the paddle on a 5200 controller is a potentiometer controlling spin/rotational speed, not actual positioning...I didn't care for it.  Then regarding Galaxian, Gorf, and Space Invaders, I personally need instant "digital" left/right control, and I didn't enjoy these with the paddle. 

 

I tried Pole Position but it looks like my car on-screen is deformed, steering hard left and I can't control the steering at all.  The keypad works for starting the game, both buttons work for Gas/Brake, but I can't seem to steer.  I also tried this ROM with a Competition Pro w/ CX-52, and got the same results.  Bad ROM maybe...I don't know...any thoughts/idea?

 

Are there any other games I missed that may be considered paddle-friendly (and available as a downloadable ROM)?

 

I also checked for verification purposes, and my Paddle Controller works perfectly in tandem with the Competition Pro, for its use as well.    

[0078265317]

24 minutes ago, doubledown said:

Ok, so I did some "research" on games that people mention as playable on the 5200 with a paddle controller, and here's what I personally found:

 

Chicken - Perfect with the paddle, 500k seems fine, 1M offers speedier movements, but unnecessary at least initially...I didn't play/test too long

Kaboom! - Perfect with the paddle, 500k is great for the first 2-3 boards, but then jumping to 1M is necessary (which is possible during game play)

Super Breakout - Perfect with the paddle, 500k or 1M both seem usable, just depends on how much rotation of the knob you want to manipulate

 

Moon Patrol - Not bad with the paddle, I prefer a joystick, but a suitable alternative

 

Asteroids

Galaxian

Gorf

Space Invaders

Tempest...I don't care for these with the paddle controller.  One might think that Asteroids and Tempest would be perfect (because of the "rotation"), but as the paddle on a 5200 controller is a potentiometer controlling spin/rotational speed, not actual positioning...I didn't care for it.  Then regarding Galaxian, Gorf, and Space Invaders, I personally need instant "digital" left/right control, and I didn't enjoy these with the paddle. 

 

I tried Pole Position but it looks like my car on-screen is deformed, steering hard left and I can't control the steering at all.  The keypad works for starting the game, both buttons work for Gas/Brake, but I can't seem to steer.  I also tried this ROM with a Competition Pro w/ CX-52, and got the same results.  Bad ROM maybe...I don't know...any thoughts/idea?

 

Are there any other games I missed that may be considered paddle-friendly (and available as a downloadable ROM)?

 

I also checked for verification purposes, and my Paddle Controller works perfectly in tandem with the Competition Pro, for its use as well.    

Try with a real copy of pole position.  Not a rom.

 

Label is all beat but just to test not bad.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pole-Position-Atari-5200-Video-Game-Cart-Only/133237960009?hash=item1f0599ed49:g:gFkAAOSwzWFdy2ln

Edited January 5, 2020 by 0078265317

[doubledown]

I was gonna pull the trigger on this, then thought...oh I use to have a 5200 years back, I know I still have some of the games.  Found the box, 14 games...but no Pole Position.  So then I did a specific internet search regarding Pole Position with the AtariMax cart, and found a thread here from 2014.  Apparently the issue is with the game's start-up detection, looking for a Joystick or Track-Ball.  Fortunately the ROM has been patched to work on the AtariMax...post is HERE (thank you)

 

So I tested Pole Position with my Paddle Controller...and it works great, including shifting.  I feel the 500k ohm resistance mode is more drive-able/controllable, and the 1M is a little too twitchy, but not unusable.  Again this is personal preference.  

 

Also I was just playing around with a bunch of random 5200 games (as I haven't had a 5200 in a long time), and I have to say that the port of Bosconian is amazing!

[AtariBrian]

5 hours ago, doubledown said:

 

 

Thanks.  Once I do some more testing with it on my console (to see if I need to change/alter anything), I'd like to send this out to someone who has multiple 5200s for further testing, feedback and opinions, due to the analog nature of the 5200 consoles.  

Looks like you are right by me. If you wanted, I could always bring items over sometime to test if you were ok with that. I have just about everything for the 5200 including every game on cart. I have several systems also. 

[doubledown]

1 hour ago, AtariBrian said:

Looks like you are right by me. If you wanted, I could always bring items over sometime to test if you were ok with that. I have just about everything for the 5200 including every game on cart. I have several systems also. 

I'll send you a PM.  

 

I did just find out one disappointing thing.  The 5200 and 2600 wire their potentiometers opposite of each other.  So I made up the adapter and went to test this Paddle Controller out on my 2600, and the on-screen object moves in the opposite direction that you turn the paddle...it's a real mind "F" trying to play that way.  But I will say the on-screen object movement was smooth as silk (no jitters) and the 500k/1M option worked just fine.  As it was made as a 5200 Paddle Controller, its not a huge loss, just a feature I wanted to incorporate, as I assumed it would just be wiring a small adapter.  It should still be possible to do, I'd need to add/wire in an additional SPDT switch which would basically enable 2600 or 5200 mode.  There is room on the upper plate where the cable enters the housing (but that is where I would add the vertical trim pot if I determine I need it)...it just depends if I want to partially take it apart to add it.  I'm sure I will, just probably not right now...I've got too many other projects I'm working on.  

[TrekMD]

This is an awesome-looking controller!

[Swami]

4 hours ago, doubledown said:

I'll send you a PM.  

 

I did just find out one disappointing thing.  The 5200 and 2600 wire their potentiometers opposite of each other.  So I made up the adapter and went to test this Paddle Controller out on my 2600, and the on-screen object moves in the opposite direction that you turn the paddle...it's a real mind "F" trying to play that way.  But I will say the on-screen object movement was smooth as silk (no jitters) and the 500k/1M option worked just fine.  As it was made as a 5200 Paddle Controller, its not a huge loss, just a feature I wanted to incorporate, as I assumed it would just be wiring a small adapter.  It should still be possible to do, I'd need to add/wire in an additional SPDT switch which would basically enable 2600 or 5200 mode.  There is room on the upper plate where the cable enters the housing (but that is where I would add the vertical trim pot if I determine I need it)...it just depends if I want to partially take it apart to add it.  I'm sure I will, just probably not right now...I've got too many other projects I'm working on.  

Atariguy1021's Masterplay Clone has the same issue. It has a switch to change to paddle mode so the adapter is internal, but it is a larger box, not for being handheld.

 

[doubledown]

14 hours ago, TrekMD said:

This is an awesome-looking controller!

Thanks...I think it works pretty well.  

 

13 hours ago, Swami said:

Atariguy1021's Masterplay Clone has the same issue. It has a switch to change to paddle mode so the adapter is internal, but it is a larger box, not for being handheld.

 

I can't imagine why Atari switch the directional potentiometer wiring from the 2600 to the 5200...seems bizarre.  

[0078265317]

To make money.  If it was same 9 pin nobody would by new controllers.

[doubledown]

Some sort of profit deal, huh!?!  Greedy corporations.

[SoundGammon]

The 5200 was designed to beat the Intellivision in every way!

 

2600 Joystick:  8-way control

 

Intellivision:       18 directions

 

5200:               360 degree control

[doubledown]

Doesn't everything beat the Intellivision? ?

[Swami]

2 minutes ago, doubledown said:

Doesn't everything beat the Intellivision? ?

Well, there go the Intellivision VGG's you were planning.

[doubledown]

Well as there's no way (without a bunch of witchcraft possibly) to wire a 4 or 8 way joystick as a 16-way, I don't know if anybody is ever gonna work that one out.  

[Swami]

On 1/5/2020 at 3:44 PM, doubledown said:

I was gonna pull the trigger on this, then thought...oh I use to have a 5200 years back, I know I still have some of the games.  Found the box, 14 games...but no Pole Position.  So then I did a specific internet search regarding Pole Position with the AtariMax cart, and found a thread here from 2014.  Apparently the issue is with the game's start-up detection, looking for a Joystick or Track-Ball.  Fortunately the ROM has been patched to work on the AtariMax...post is HERE (thank you)

 

So I tested Pole Position with my Paddle Controller...and it works great, including shifting.  I feel the 500k ohm resistance mode is more drive-able/controllable, and the 1M is a little too twitchy, but not unusable.  Again this is personal preference.  

 

Also I was just playing around with a bunch of random 5200 games (as I haven't had a 5200 in a long time), and I have to say that the port of Bosconian is amazing!

If you decide to make these to order, I would definitely be interested. Also, I was thinking, if you could add a decent joystick you'd have a great original controller replacement that would really be a game changer. It's tricky, though, several past attempts at this usually result in analog sticks that work well with digital games but move too fast with the analog ones, which is ironic. It makes me wonder why the analog games use such a small portion of the analog range.