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Telnet BBS download problems....


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Okay, been having some download problems at the DarkForce! BBS. Users have told me that

it just doesn't work. I've had no problems myself, although this is local, with my Kubuntu Linux

laptop, using Ztelnet. I'm wondering that since it's across the LAN, it's different than from the

'Net.

 

Here are a couple of pics to show Ztelnet in action. As you can see, Ztelnet pops open a window

and asks you where you want the file to go and keeps you notified about what's going on. This

is zmodem, btw.

 

Thanks all.

 

 

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I was one of the users who said it wasn't working. It's now working for me with Syncterm. Today, I noticed that it will not work if one does not login using telnet mode. The other day when I tried it, it did not work in telnet mode nor raw mode. So, I wonder if something else may have been the culprit the other day.

 

At any rate, it's good to know that your BBS requires telnet mode for file transfers.

 

-JP

 

Edited by JohnPolka
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Educate this 'ole SysOp a bit - what exactly is the difference between "raw" mode

and "telnet" mode? Advantages/disadvantages?

 

I'm sure I've read that in the Lantronix PDF but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

 

Thanks!  :)

 

PS Using ztelnet, TAZ, ANSITerm, FDT, etc, I don't remember any settings for this, 

must be a default.

Edited by DarkLord
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So I gave it a try with a few things with strangely mixed results...

 

With a WiModem232 on a Mega STE using FZDT (Modem 1 port)

raw mode - failed

telnet mode - failed

Also various speeds, with/without RTS/CTS, with HSMODEM and without, different protocols, all failed

 

With NetRunner Beta 18 (Win32) - also failed?! This surprised me...

Syncterm (Win32) - worked! Although I can't remember if it was raw or telnet, so I might try them again to see if one worked over the other

 

Having different results with the Windows apps is odd to me but again it could be one mode over the other.

 

I'm not 100% on the reasoning but raw vs telnet is just that certain telnet byte sequences have to be handled properly were as raw is just pure 8-bit data across the connection. I think the documentation for tcpser explains it much clearer.

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15 hours ago, DarkLord said:

Educate this 'ole SysOp a bit - what exactly is the difference between "raw" mode

and "telnet" mode? Advantages/disadvantages?

 

I'm sure I've read that in the Lantronix PDF but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

 

Thanks!  :)

 

PS Using ztelnet, TAZ, ANSITerm, FDT, etc, I don't remember any settings for this, 

must be a default.

 

 

Telnet is a communication protocol that includes some rules such as an end of line sequence must be either a carriage return (ASCII 13) followed by a linefeed (ASCII 10) or a carriage return followed by a NUL character (ASCII 0). There are also escape sequences that begin with ASCII 255. You can read all about them in the telnet specification (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc854). 

 

Raw mode does not use any protocol. It's unfiltered communication, very much like a traditional dial-up modem connection.

 

Sometimes the telnet protocol can get in the way of file transfers, especially if one end is configured for telnet and the other end is in raw mode. 

 

Telnet mode can really affect ATASCII mode on the Atari 8 bit. For example,  a carriage return is typically used as a graphics character (A raised straight line) and an end-of-line character is a different mapping (ASCII 155). If one is viewing an ATASCII graphics file under telnet mode, they might see the raised straight line (ASCII 13) followed by a heart character (ASCII 0) since telnet dictates that a carriage return must be followed with a linefeed or a NUL. Sometimes ATASCII can really mess up a telnet connection if it includes cursor controls (which is common in an ATASCII movie). That's because the insert character is ASCII 255 (which precedes escape sequences in telnet).

 

With regard to your BBS' file transfers...I wonder if file transfers would work for everyone if your BBS' Lantronix device were configured for raw mode.  Which Lantronix device do you use? I wrote up a configuration for the Lantronix UDS-10 which includes raw mode. You can access it at the following link:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=644789

 

-JP

 

 

 

 

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Okay, I downloaded and glanced over that well-written instruction set. Thanks.

 

One thing, at first glance it appears that the settings in that set are for using a UDS-10 to

call > in < to a BBS.

 

In my case, all my Lantronix UDS-10 settings are for > receiving < calls. I know that the

settings I use on my UDS-10 with my STacy to call are different than the ones I use for

the BBS.

 

Or is it that those settings you gave are for both?

 

Also, I have a router setup to pass telnet calls through to my UDS-10, so I have a permanent

IP address. Don't think I can do dynamic with that, or am I missing something?

 

Here are my current settings:

 

darklord@darkforce:~$ telnet 192.168.1.104 9999
Trying 192.168.1.104...
Connected to 192.168.1.104.
Escape character is '^]'.

*** Lantronix Universal Device Server ***
Serial Number xxxxx  MAC address xxxxx
Software version V5.8.0.5 (060724) LTX
Password :----
Press Enter for Setup Mode


*** basic parameters
Hardware: Ethernet Autodetect
IP addr 192.168.1.104, gateway 192.168.1.1,netmask 255.255.255.0
Telnet config password set

*** Security
SNMP is              enabled
SNMP Community Name: public
Telnet Setup is      enabled
TFTP Download is     enabled
Port 77FEh is        enabled
Web Server is        enabled
ECHO is              disabled
Enhanced Password is disabled

*** Channel 1
Baudrate 19200, I/F Mode 4C, Flow 02
Port 00520
Connect Mode : 56
Auto increment source port disabled
Remote IP Adr: --- none ---, Port 00000
Disconn Mode : C0  Disconn Time: 10:00
Flush   Mode : 00
Terminal name: DarkForce! BBS

*** Expert
TCP Keepalive    : 45s
ARP cache timeout: 600s
Monitor Mode @ bootup : enabled
HTTP Port Number : 80

Change Setup:
  0 Server
  1 Channel 1
  5 Expert
  6 Security
  7 Factory defaults
  8 Exit without save
  9 Save and exit            Your choice ? 8

 

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

 

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5 hours ago, DarkLord said:

Okay, I downloaded and glanced over that well-written instruction set. Thanks.

 

One thing, at first glance it appears that the settings in that set are for using a UDS-10 to

call > in < to a BBS.

 

In my case, all my Lantronix UDS-10 settings are for > receiving < calls. I know that the

settings I use on my UDS-10 with my STacy to call are different than the ones I use for

the BBS.

 

 

 

 

Yes, the "Connect Mode 56" setting in those instructions permit incoming and outgoing connections. See also "Connect Mode" in the Lantronix manual at the link below. The settings are listed in binary, so you need to convert the bits to hexadecimal when you enter them. Bit 6 controls whether to accept incoming connections.

 

https://www.lantronix.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/UDS10-UDS100_UG.pdf
 

The Disconnect Mode (a.k.a. Disconn Mode) setting controls whether you use telnet mode or raw mode. Right now, you have it set to telnet mode. If you change it to 80 (or 81 if you also want to turn off the state LED during a connection), you'll use raw mode.

 

-JP

 

Edit: Added information on the Disconnect Mode.

Edited by JohnPolka
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Hmm, okay - most of this stuff I think I went over "back in the day" when

I first switched to telnet from dial up but I hadn't gone over it in a long

time since there hadn't been any (apparent) problems.

 

Thanks for all the info. I do have the Lantronix manual and PDF for

reference.

 

So if I change from telnet mode to raw mode, will it cause problems with

the software that uses telnet?

 

Is there a setting that allows both modes simultaneously?

 

Thanks again.

 

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Yeah so I also messed with this and I set my disconnmode to 80 and now my wimodem232 works in raw mode. Syncterm works as well when raw mode is selected. NetRunner still didn't work at all.

 

I don't think you can have both or a setting that does both unfortunately. I think everything still works just fine from a non-downloading point of view though. I guess you can advertise RAW mode for downloads or something?

 

I was looking at the telnet RFC's to understand the terminal types and while you could set it to ANSI which has the binary mode (which I think it's the equivalent to RAW is it not?) then theoretically you can have "both" I would think. Although I wasn't able to get downloads to work with telnet modem and my terminal was set to ANSI which supports BINARY mode even when I had telnet translation enabled on my wimodem232. Maybe the UDS doesn't support it? Perhaps I'll play around with my other UDS and see if I can make it talk about it's supported options. Maybe there is a common ground or something.

 

I guess you can clearly indicate what mode you are using when people go into your download section?

I don't know what the prevailing method is on the net for things like NetFossil, Synchronet, or UDS.

 

Just for the record my BBS UDS-10 is configured like this:

*** Channel 1
Baudrate 38400, I/F Mode 4C, Flow 02
Port 04000
Connect Mode : 56
Auto increment source port disabled
Remote IP Adr: --- none ---, Port 00000
Disconn Mode : 80  Disconn Time: 05:00
Flush   Mode : 44

 

I should really up the baudrate though it can go a lot faster since it's on a PC with real 16550 UART's

 

_Troy

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Okay, just in the interest of experimentation (and if it ain't broke, I'm just not

trying hard enough :)  :), I set the disconnect mode to 80 and 81.

 

DarkForce doesn't respond well to these settings. First off, the script I use to

auto detect ANSI terminal callers doesn't work. Also, your login is now shown

instead of being *'s. Further, once it gets to last screen after login, it acts like

<return> is being hit 2-3 times in a row. Many screens won't let you input any

keys, it just moves on.

 

So....is there some other settings that are supposed to be changed when you

use 80 or 81?

 

Thanks all.

 

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10 hours ago, DarkLord said:

Okay, just in the interest of experimentation (and if it ain't broke, I'm just not

trying hard enough :)  :), I set the disconnect mode to 80 and 81.

 

DarkForce doesn't respond well to these settings. First off, the script I use to

auto detect ANSI terminal callers doesn't work. Also, your login is now shown

instead of being *'s. Further, once it gets to last screen after login, it acts like

<return> is being hit 2-3 times in a row. Many screens won't let you input any

keys, it just moves on.

 

So....is there some other settings that are supposed to be changed when you

use 80 or 81?

 

Thanks all.

 

When you tested this, did you connect to the BBS using a term program in "telnet" mode or "raw" mode?

 

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Okay, posted this on DarkForce, but I'll repeat it here for everyone. I've decided

to stay with telnet mode for now. It works so I'm not going to make any drastic

changes at this time.

 

That's not to say that I'm giving up or that's the final verdict on the matter. I'm

planning on trying again at a later date when I've got more time and have read

up a bit on what's what. For now, when I set the UDS10 to 80 or 81 on disconnect,

DarkForce's scripts, which are a huge part of its operation, don't work right.

 

Just wanted to update everyone as to where we are. I've also updated the information

screen that first appears when you go into the BBS's File Sig areas - it now shows menu

item #5, which simply states that files must be downloaded in telnet mode.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help and input - we'll try again at a later date.  :)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I built one of these with full serial connections.

 

https://subethasoftware.com/2018/02/28/wire-up-your-own-rs-232-wifi-modem-for-under-10-using-esp8266-and-zimodem-firmware/

 

I've set 'ats46=3s48=1s50=1s52=1s54=1s56=1&w' and dial 'atddarkforce-bbs.dyndns.org:520'. I connect 90% of the time and get to the file section.

 

I was told to use 'atd' (not atdt) from the guy who maintains Zimodem. Not sure why it would matter.

 

I have tried TAZ and Flash 3.02 programs. Downloading fail regardless of protocol. Mostly timeouts, or Subpacket too long errors.

 

I have a UDS-10, which downloads do work... But I'd like to the get ESP8266 to work.

 

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I'm still experimenting around with this.

 

So far:

 

Ztelnet under Kubuntu Linux

Syncterm with a Mac

 

both work fine.

 

As soon as my darned serial cable gets here for the Mega STe, I'll start playing

around with Taz, FZDT, ANSITerm, ect on it....

 

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  • 1 month later...

Okay, been playing around (again!) and have had some odd but interesting results.

 

Setting the UDS-10 on the BBS to disconnect mode 00, 40, 80, or 81 results in extra

letters on the callers screen, as well as doubled letters in places. The script file I use

to detect incoming ANSI terminal emulation does not work correctly with these modes

either, although that part has me completely baffled. Also, the major point, downloading

doesn't work either - it still times out. Time out on the callers screen and BBS Express

reports "too many retries". This is with Ztelnet under Kubuntu Linux, the shell under 

Windows 7, and TAZ on my Mega STe. Oh, the UDS-10 on the Mega STe was changed

each time to match the disconnect mode on the BBS with the same results.

 

Changing the BBS's UDS-10 back to disconnect mode C0 makes the ANSI script work

again and the doubled and extra character problem go away. It also works for downloads

with Ztelnet under Kubuntu Linux as well as a couple of other apps on the Mac and Win7

and Win10 that some people have previously reported (not the shell).

 

The good news is that, I've figured out how to get TAZ to download successfully like this.

When you pick zmodem and begin the download  on the BBS screen, right click from

TAZ's main menu to get the configuration menu. Pick Receive Files and then hit  "E" for

external and it will then download like a champ with no errors. I just downloaded about

half a dozen files to my Mega STe with no problems at all like this.

 

When I've got a little more time I'll try ANSITerm and FDT to see if there are ways to get

them to work as well (if someone doesn't beat me to it).

 

Thanks, just wanted to let everyone know that I hadn't forgotten about this issue and that

we've made some small progress, at least.  :)

 

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  • 1 year later...

Just wanted to update this a bit. I've used the following to

successfully download with no problems:

 

Ztelnet under Kubuntu

 

SyncTerm under Windows

 

TAZ with a Mega STe

 

STalker with a Mega STe

 

I've not got around to it yet but I still want to test

 

NeoCom

Freeze Dried Terminal

ANSITerm

Flash

 

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Played around a bit with NeoCom this evening.

 

Interesting looking software. I've got the shareware version,

not sure what, if any limitations come with that.

 

On my Mega STe I got it to connect just fine to my BBS but

I've not figured out yet how to get it to download. I'll have

to play around with that.

 

It does have a full screen mode and a windowed mode. From

the windowed mode it will work fine with the MUSICOMM desk

accessory and play music.

 

Really need to read the docs. It supports VT52 and ANSI but I

never could get the colors or window to do what I wanted it to.

 

Still, it did work and connect right out of the box, as they say.

 

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12 hours ago, DarkLord said:

 

I've not got around to it yet but I still want to test

 

NeoCom

Freeze Dried Terminal

ANSITerm

Flash

 

I'm no expert, so it's easily user error but I gave FDT and ANSITerm a go with no luck....

 

SyncTerm on PC worked though

Edited by 8bitguy1
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