PEB disk drive problem question

[+hloberg]

just got me a working PEB complete with 2 old TI full high drives of indeterminate functionality. I have been trying to initialize a disk on the drives and I get error 16 (not recognizing the drive or disk). the drive spins up on both when initializing and the light comes on but then I get that error after a minute or so in Disk Manager 2. Now the problem is all I have is double density/ double sided disk to test with. would i get an error like that with 2D/2S disk formatting? do I need to get some single sided disk to test it with (which are hard to find)?

[Omega-TI]

If it's a stock TI disk controller, it'll only do DSSD 40 track.  It does not matter if the diskette is DSDD.  Try formatting it for DSSD and see if that works.

[+hloberg]

20 minutes ago, --- Ω --- said:

If it's a stock TI disk controller, it'll only do DSSD 40 track.  It does not matter if the diskette is DSDD.  Try formatting it for DSSD and see if that works.

that's what I thought that DSDD should format DSSD. I got them to do so in my Atari. But I wasn't sure how these older drives might work (It's an old full high drive). thing is, I never get as far as it formatting the disk. the DM2 errors out while attempting to format with that error 16. is there maybe some switches on the disk drive PEB card I may need to set? don't remember seeing any.

[Ed in SoDak]

You can peer inside the drive's open door to look for two heads. Being full-height, it's as likely as not they are only single-sided drives. If that's the case, only one head will be seen, the other is simply a small felt pad. That would be SSSD, for 90K of storage.

 

The TI controller typically does not care if the floppy is capable of DSDD. The limiting factor is what the drive itself can handle. It's easy to upgrade, any old PC floppy drive can be used, half- or full-height, most of which are double-sided.

 

Then, as Omega noted, the stock TI disk controller maxes out with DSSD. Some of the third-party controllers can format DSDD. While I believe the TI controller can be upgraded to DSDD, I think those are pretty scarce. Pop the two latches under the read edge of the PEB's lid and it should be obvious by the name tag on the card which controller you have.

 

Apparently your PEB did not include any floppies already formatted with files on them? PM me with your mailing address and I'll send a couple floppies your way.

-Ed

[Omega-TI]

1 minute ago, Ed in SoDak said:

Then, as Omega noted, the stock TI disk controller maxes out with DSSD. Some of the third-party controllers can format DSDD. While I believe the TI controller can be upgraded to DSDD, I think those are pretty scarce. Pop the two latches under the read edge of the PEB's lid and it should be obvious by the name tag on the card which controller you have.

 

There is an upgrade to DSSD 80 track << AS SHOWN HERE >> which gives the same amount of space as a DSDD 40 track drive, but the TI's controller cannot do double density.  Yes, the TI's full height drives were single sided (SSSD) giving only 90K.

[Ed in SoDak]

Thanks for the correction, Omega. I knew there was an upgrade, just misremembered the format.

 

While the original TI full-height drives were indeed just single-sided; double-sided full-height drives are around or used to be, anyway. I currently have one in my PEB, with two half-height DS drives in an external enclosure.

 

You can squeeze dual half-height drives into the PEB, but it's just a bit much for the PEB's power supply. Depends a bit on the drives, some use less power than others.

-Ed

[+arcadeshopper]

Yeah stock TI drives are sssd

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

[+Schmitzi]

Did you test it with just 1 of the drives conncted at a time ?

 

[+hloberg]

6 minutes ago, Schmitzi said:

Did you test it with just 1 of the drives conncted at a time ?

 

tested it with just 1 drive at a time connected to drive 1. both got exactly same error. i'm getting a pre-formated SSSD disk from someone to rule out the disk. then it'll be just the PEB disk drive card and the cable from the PEB to the drive if still have the same errors. 

 

[Omega-TI]

Are you sure the ribbon cable is connected correctly and firmly for both the controller and drive?  Also is the drive getting SUFFICIENT power?

Is the correct drive in position one, as in is the terminator block in place?  According to the error code you've given us, it's say's NO DISK or NO DRIVE.

 

[+hloberg]

Just now, --- Ω --- said:

Are you sure the ribbon cable is connected correctly and firmly for both the controller and drive?  Also is the drive getting SUFFICIENT power?

Is the correct drive in position one, as in is the terminator block in place?  According to the error code you've given us, it's say's NO DISK or NO DRIVE.

 

yes to all questions, I think. the drive does acknowledge the command to format then spins the disk. then the error 16 comes up after about 10 seconds. that's why I need a good TI-formatted disk to rule out that as an issue NO DISK. I would think NO DRIVE and the drive wouldn't even spin up, but just a guess. my expertise is with Atari 8-bit drives. 

[+hloberg]

I posted some picks on my blog of the PEB, drive and workings.

 

 

[+Lee Stewart]

A few questions come to mind:

• If you have both drives hooked up at the same time,
  • Is the second drive in a separately powered box?
  • What is the configuration of the ribbon cable(s)?
  • What are the drive jumper settings on the disk drive PCBs?
• When you hook them up separately to the controller, do they have the same drive number settings on the drive PCBs?
• Are you using straight-through (not twisted) ribbon cables?

...lee

[+hloberg]

OK this is a really out there thing but I'll toss it.

I have being having issues with my tape drive, it records the file onto tape, when you play back the tape you can hear the sound of the tape but it always says, NO FILE FOUND. tried different volumes, tones and tapes. Im just assuming it's the tape drive somehow. It's  an official TI beige tape drive. I have just ignored it since I have no intention of using tape (drive for sale now on eBay in fact). There is no way these things can be linked can they. from what I understand were looking at completely different systems, right?

[+hloberg]

23 minutes ago, Lee Stewart said:

A few questions come to mind:

• If you have both drives hooked up at the same time,
  • Is the second drive in a separately powered box?
  • What is the configuration of the ribbon cable(s)?
  • What are the drive jumper settings on the disk drive PCBs?
• When you hook them up separately to the controller, do they have the same drive number settings on the drive PCBs?
• Are you using straight-through (not twisted) ribbon cables?

...lee

this PEB had the drive already setup and in the box bay as drive 1. I swapped the other drive when I got the ERROR 16 error and got the ERROR 16 also on the other drive in the PEB drive bay. both spin up and the light comes on.  I'm not using the 2nd drive other than replace the 1st drive in the PEB for testing. the jumpers look right on both.

anyone know the volts/amps that the molex cable supposed to put out to the drive? suggested I might look into that.

[Ed in SoDak]

No, they're not related. The TI is so flexible, you can have multiple failures! :roll:

 

File Not Found with cassette is volume too low. There's several common reasons for that we can go into if you like.

-Ed

[+arcadeshopper]

this PEB had the drive already setup and in the box bay as drive 1. I swapped the other drive when I got the ERROR 16 error and got the ERROR 16 also on the other drive in the PEB drive bay. both spin up and the light comes on.  I'm not using the 2nd drive other than replace the 1st drive in the PEB for testing. the jumpers look right on both.
anyone know the volts/amps that the molex cable supposed to put out to the drive? suggested I might look into that.

Yellow is 12v red is 5v

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

[Omega-TI]

Since you seem to be having a problem with both drives.... do you have two FDC's?  If so, just for giggles, swap them and see if that works.  Otherwise... wait for a new diskette.

[+hloberg]

13 minutes ago, Ed in SoDak said:

No, they're not related. The TI is so flexible, you can have multiple failures!

 

File Not Found with cassette is volume too low. There's several common reasons for that we can go into if you like.

-Ed

I didn't think they could be related. as for the tape drive, I have turned it to max still get that error. still, I'm not interested enough to try and fix it. I could test it by hooking it to my stereo tape drive (yes I still have one) or a PC but, nah. had a tape drive on my TI99 as a kid so that's enough.

[Omega-TI]

Out of curiosity... how does the disk media look?  Is it completely smooth and uniform?  If not, does it appear to have dark spots on the magnetic media or even possibly small flakes?

[+Schmitzi]

The floppy-cable must be 1:1, and not twisted (should be so, as you say the PEB was in use before)

Already tested another cable ?

Edited January 12, 2020 by Schmitzi

[+hloberg]

14 hours ago, Schmitzi said:

The floppy-cable must be 1:1, and not twisted (should be so, as you say the PEB was in use before)

Already tested another cable ?

cable on my list to test. i only have 1. media, i have boxes and boxes of DSDD to choose from & tested several.

what gets me everything looks like it works but after several seconds throws error. i'm just going to have to step through the parts of the system till i find the issue i guess.

[Ed in SoDak]

At least part of the delay is normal. The TI will attempt to do what is asked, but only for a little while if it fails.

 

Like starting Extended BASIC, it will look 5 or more seconds on drive 1 for a file named LOAD. If it's not found, the TI then ends the search (without error) and gives you the cursor.

 

Trying to load a non-existent file OLD DSK1.NONESUCH it will make the attempt for a few seconds, then report the fail with Error 02, file not found. If the disk and directory are ok, it won't take long to give you the error report. Sometimes I just forget to close the drive door and get Error 06 after a fairly long attempt. If I manage to shut the door before it errors out, it'll go ahead with loading or whatever I've asked it to do.

 

Another Captain Obvious comment: Is the disk label facing up?

-Ed

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Ed in SoDak

[+hloberg]

4 hours ago, Ed in SoDak said:

At least part of the delay is normal. The TI will attempt to do what is asked, but only for a little while if it fails.

 

Like starting Extended BASIC, it will look 5 or more seconds on drive 1 for a file named LOAD. If it's not found, the TI then ends the search (without error) and gives you the cursor.

 

Trying to load a non-existent file OLD DSK1.NONESUCH it will make the attempt for a few seconds, then report the fail with Error 02, file not found. If the disk and directory are ok, it won't take long to give you the error report. Sometimes I just forget to close the drive door and get Error 06 after a fairly long attempt. If I manage to shut the door before it errors out, it'll go ahead with loading or whatever I've asked it to do.

 

Another Captain Obvious comment: Is the disk label facing up?

-Ed

 

 

thanks for the info. and be obvious. I'm coming from an Atari world when comes to disk drives so the TI is a little different. one of the little differences might be what's tripping me up.

[+hloberg]

went over the drives looking for anything wrong, compared them to the book, everything looks OK. checked over the cable, looks good. checked the disk controller card for broken traces etc... looks great. can't find anything physically wrong. One thing, the disk controller has a, I think, Western Digital chip that looks like an old style flash ROM? (picture below) this normal?