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5200 Games that need an Analog Joystick?


doubledown

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So I've got a question for the 5200 experts here.  I'm looking for a list of all of the 5200 games that are PROPERLY PLAYED with an analog joystick.  I did a bit of searching on this and before the standard spewing of games like Centipede, Missile Command and the likes, let me explain what I mean by PROPERLY PLAYED.  I am referring to games that require analog control, and that were meant to be played with a joystick. So here's a list of games that do not qualify, and the reasoning:

 

Centipede - Trak-Ball, not joystick

Missile Command - Trak-Ball, not joystick

 

Kaboom! - Paddle, not joystick

Super Breakout - Paddle, not joystick

Chicken - Paddle, not joystick

 

Pole Position - Steering Wheel, not joystick

Star Wars - Flight Yoke, not joystick

 

Tempest - Spinner, not joystick

 

Additionally any arcade game who's original Joystick was digital (Gorf, Galaxian, and the likes) even though the 5200's port may allow for analog control (moving slowly, or quickly) also does not qualify...as it was not intended to be played with analog controls, or the arcade cabinet would have had an analog joystick.  

 

So with the above caveats in mind, I'll reiterate that I'm looking for a list of games that are properly played with an analog joystick...to determine if its worth my time to create an Analog Joystick Controller or not.  Thanks in advance for your expertise.  

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I would say that RealSports Baseball is built for the analog stick, the rest of the sports titles might be as well.  I can state with certainty that RealSports Curling is.

 

It's been a while since I played them, but I feel like Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus are designed for it as well.

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15 hours ago, bohoki said:

i'm only familair with 5 superbreakout,kaboom,missilecommand,starwars,gorf

 

i'm not aware of any of the 5200 arcade conversion games that originally used an analog control in the cabinet

Paddle, Paddle, Trak-Ball, Flight Yoke, Digital Joystick...not properly played with an Analog Joystick

9 hours ago, ApolloBoy said:

Didn't the Star Wars arcade game have an analog yoke?

Yes it had an analog Flight Yoke, so is not properly played with a Joystick.

4 minutes ago, AverageSoftware said:

I would say that RealSports Baseball is built for the analog stick, the rest of the sports titles might be as well.  I can state with certainty that RealSports Curling is.

 

It's been a while since I played them, but I feel like Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus are designed for it as well.

I will check these out...thanks.

2 minutes ago, leech said:

So is the question really about Arcade conversions?  Or just 5200 games that require (are meant to be played with) analog?  Because I'd put Star Raiders on that list.

No not just arcade ports, I'm interested in finding out any games in the 5200 library for which an analog joystick is the proper input device.  I've never played Star Raiders...I'll check it out.  

 

The arcade version of Sinistar used a 49-way joystick, so an analog joystick would be proper for this, but from what I've read online, it seems like the 5200 port simply reacts digitally to any joystick movements.  

 

Atari's Food Fight arcade game used an analog joystick, but I don't believe it was ever ported to the 5200 unfortunately.  

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Upon some further research...Wikipedia... it looks like Star Raiders was originally developed for the 8-bit computers (with digital controls obviously), but when ported to the 5200 they specifically added support for the analog joysticks.  So I would definitely put Star Raiders on the apparent short list of games that are Properly Played with an analog joystick.  

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Dreadnaught Factor requires an analog stick.

 

Just curious, why ignore the 5200 games that are improved with the analog or multispeed performance just because the originals were not thus?    5200 Galaxian with the Trak-Ball is easily my favorite version of this game, even though the arcade version used a two-way "digital" control.  This is one of the games I'm most looking forward to trying with the spinner on my own arcade controller.

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44 minutes ago, edladdin said:

Dreadnaught Factor requires an analog stick.

I'll have to check out Drednaught Factor. 

 

49 minutes ago, edladdin said:

Just curious, why ignore the 5200 games that are improved with the analog or multispeed performance just because the originals were not thus?    5200 Galaxian with the Trak-Ball is easily my favorite version of this game, even though the arcade version used a two-way "digital" control.  This is one of the games I'm most looking forward to trying with the spinner on my own arcade controller.

As a purist I guess (and I wouldn't say improved).  If Namco/Midway wanted Galaxian to use an analog control...they would have programmed the game for it, and installed it into the arcade cabinet.  I played a ton of Galaga (cocktail cabinet at a Pizza Hut) as a kid, which is obviously the superior sequel to Galaxian, and I never needed/wanted to move slowly when moving left or right.  

 

40 minutes ago, AverageSoftware said:

It's not a popular opinion (mine rarely are!) but I actually think Kaboom! plays better with the 5200 joystick than it does with 2600 paddles.

Kaboom! was developed for the 2600 for use with its paddles (it was "loosely" based on the arcade game Avalanche which also used a paddle).  It was then ported 2 years later to the 5200.  I grew up with a 2600, with Kaboom!, and with paddles...so I don't want to play it any other way.  I would assume most/any that grew up with a 5200, and only played it with the joystick...they think that is the way to play, as you do.  I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not right.  ?

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Pole Position (never heard of a 5200 wheel, so original controller is the way it was meant to be controlled back in ‘84)

 

Star Wars Arcade (never heard of a 5200 flight yoke; so original controller is the intended way of playing it)

 

Resque on Fractalus 

 

Blaster 

 

Star Raiders

 

The Last Star Fighter

 

But quality digital-controllers are much, much more important to produce, (if that is within capacity of skill and time).

Edited by Giles N
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1 hour ago, Giles N said:

Pole Position (never heard of a 5200 wheel, so original controller is the way it was meant to be controlled back in ‘84)

Well as the game was developed as an arcade game with a steering wheel, a wheel is how it was meant to be controlled back in 1982...and then ported to the 5200 without proper controller support.

 

1 hour ago, Giles N said:

Star Wars Arcade (never heard of a 5200 flight yoke; so original controller is the intended way of playing it)

Again, an arcade game developed with an analog flight yoke in 1983, and then ported to the 5200 without proper controller support.

 

So it looks like there's really only something in the neighborhood of maybe 10-12 games which are truly made to be played with an analog joystick.  Almost hard to justify the time/effort to make one.  It's truly a shame that Atari didn't port Food Fight to the 5200.

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8 minutes ago, doubledown said:

Well as the game was developed as an arcade game with a steering wheel, a wheel is how it was meant to be controlled back in 1982...and then ported to the 5200 without proper controller support.

 

Again, an arcade game developed with an analog flight yoke in 1983, and then ported to the 5200 without proper controller support.

 

So it looks like there's really only something in the neighborhood of maybe 10-12 games which are truly made to be played with an analog joystick.  Almost hard to justify the time/effort to make one.  It's truly a shame that Atari didn't port Food Fight to the 5200.

Ok, sorry, thought you meant developed/ported to the 5200 to be used with analogue joystick.

 

Anyway, I think refurbished orginial controllers do the job ok (but not brilliant; they need hard-plastic firebuttons not the rubber-firebuttons which much be ‘squeezed’ rather than being just tapped).

 

The demand would be for quality digital-controllers and/or cables that makes PC-analogue joysticks etc to work with the 5200.

 

Perhaps it even would be some money to earn (among Atari fans) on such things, but I’m not enough into the details to tell.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/19/2020 at 2:20 PM, doubledown said:

That would be surprising knowing the nature of the game, and the manual makes no mention of it...but I'll check it out. 

It turns out I was mistaken. Beamrider has purely digital controls. I had thought otherwise due to how one of my Genesis to 5200 adapters was working imperfectly with Beamrider and Genesis controllers.  It turns out the adapter was actually the problem, not some weird analog issue with the game.

 

I now have a 2nd Genesis to 5200 controller adapter that remedied the problem.

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45 minutes ago, ave1 said:

It turns out I was mistaken. Beamrider has purely digital controls. I had thought otherwise due to how one of my Genesis to 5200 adapters was working imperfectly with Beamrider and Genesis controllers.  It turns out the adapter was actually the problem, not some weird analog issue with the game.

 

I now have a 2nd Genesis to 5200 controller adapter that remedied the problem.

 

That's what I found too.  When you brought it up I checked, and as you are "digitally" jumping from line to line I couldn't imagine how any sort of analog control would work, or be necessary.  

 

22 minutes ago, Swami said:

I think Centipede on the 5200 is only semi-analog. It has two speeds: slow when you move the stick a little and fast when you move the stick far. It’s probably the same with the trackball, but I’d have to check again. 

 

That's possible, but the fact finding mission of this thread was to find games "PROPERLY PLAYED WITH AN ANALOG JOYSTICK" and Centipede is automatically out, as it is properly played with a Trak-Ball.  

 

From the input gathered here, and further research that I've done, I've determined that the supremely limited number of 5200 games which are "PROPERLY PLAYED WITH AN ANALOG JOYSTICK" (by my definition), and the fact that "I" have limited, to no interest in said games, completely negates any desire "I" would have to continue looking into the creation of an Analog-type arcade stick controller for the 5200.  That's not me saying that it's not still necessary, or preferable by some for some games, it just removes this project off my current radar due to my lack of interest.  And at some point I'll decide what to do with the self-centering, analog arcade stick that I got for this project.  Thanks to everybody for the help & information.  

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4 hours ago, doubledown said:

And at some point I'll decide what to do with the self-centering, analog arcade stick that I got for this project.  Thanks to everybody for the help & information.  

Self centering analog stick value can be integrated into a position, like the TrackPoint of Thinkpad notebooks. 

 

Digital controls can behave the same as long as you perform a second integration, I mean, the longer you keep pressing at the same direction you increment the value of an accumulator that in turn is added to the main value. For instance:

 

  • Start with Accumulator is 1, axis value =0;
  • Pressing the "plus" direction, add Accumulator to axis value  -> 0 + 1 = 1;
  • keep pressing and the accumulator raises to 2, and that makes axis value = 1 + 2 = 3;
  • next, Accumulator raises to 3 and axis = 3 + 3 = 6; 
  • As soon as you release the directional button the accumulator shall return to default value (1). 

 

That mechanism will provide you coarse and fine movements. 

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  • 3 months later...

Properly-played is an opinion. Sure, those arcade titles were created with specific controllers in the arcades but that doesn't mean the home conversions were designed to be properly-played with those types controllers. And for the 5200, they were designed for the analog joystick with Trak-Ball support being added once management had signed off on Dan Kramer designing a Trak-Ball for release.

 

5200 Star Raiders was designed for use with the standard analog joystick.

 

5200 Pole Position was designed for use with the standard analog joystick but GCC included extra code for the Trak-Ball controller because Dan Kramer asked them to so he could also piggy-back off of the Trak-Ball Controller by the Driving Controller he was going to officially design - based upon Atari's steering wheel, shifter, and pedals used in their arcade version - but didn't get a chance to do so once Warner ordered Atari to discontinue the 5200. The game can also be used with the "paddles" but that's a happy side-effect of analog joystick support. Atari Inc's Consumer Engineering Division "made" their own 5200 Paddles but Atari itself never officially released any just as the Consumer Engineering guys rolled - pun intended - their own 3-button Trak-Balls to play 3-Base Missile Command on their Atari 8-bit computers in-house which still hasn't been released out into the wild.

 

5200 Star Wars the Arcade Game was designed with the analog joystick in mind, not a yoke. However, Atari Inc and Parker Bros. were discussing an updated version to support an Atari 5200 Yoke Controller that [once again] Dan Kramer was going to design based upon the arcade Star Wars Yoke. But again, that project was terminated because of Warner forcing Atari to discontinue the 5200.

 

5200 Tempest is designed for use with the standard analog joystick and the Trak-Ball. Of course, it can also be used by a spinner, whether home-made or the actual arcade cabinet's spinner hardwired into a 5200 Trak-Ball controller as was done by Dan Kramer at the last Davis Atari Party.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Lynxpro said:

Properly-played is an opinion. Sure, those arcade titles were created with specific controllers in the arcades but that doesn't mean the home conversions were designed to be properly-played with those types controllers. And for the 5200, they were designed for the analog joystick with Trak-Ball support being added once management had signed off on Dan Kramer designing a Trak-Ball for release.

 

5200 Star Raiders was designed for use with the standard analog joystick.

 

5200 Pole Position was designed for use with the standard analog joystick but GCC included extra code for the Trak-Ball controller because Dan Kramer asked them to so he could also piggy-back off of the Trak-Ball Controller by the Driving Controller he was going to officially design - based upon Atari's steering wheel, shifter, and pedals used in their arcade version - but didn't get a chance to do so once Warner ordered Atari to discontinue the 5200. The game can also be used with the "paddles" but that's a happy side-effect of analog joystick support. Atari Inc's Consumer Engineering Division "made" their own 5200 Paddles but Atari itself never officially released any just as the Consumer Engineering guys rolled - pun intended - their own 3-button Trak-Balls to play 3-Base Missile Command on their Atari 8-bit computers in-house which still hasn't been released out into the wild.

 

5200 Star Wars the Arcade Game was designed with the analog joystick in mind, not a yoke. However, Atari Inc and Parker Bros. were discussing an updated version to support an Atari 5200 Yoke Controller that [once again] Dan Kramer was going to design based upon the arcade Star Wars Yoke. But again, that project was terminated because of Warner forcing Atari to discontinue the 5200.

 

5200 Tempest is designed for use with the standard analog joystick and the Trak-Ball. Of course, it can also be used by a spinner, whether home-made or the actual arcade cabinet's spinner hardwired into a 5200 Trak-Ball controller as was done by Dan Kramer at the last Davis Atari Party.

 

 

Damnit, now I want a 3 button track ball for Missile command!  I think I saw they just released a new version of that game in an email.  I should spend more time with Missile Command 3D on the Jag too...

 

Sad that the 5200 had such a short life span and such a troubled start.

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4 minutes ago, leech said:

Damnit, now I want a 3 button track ball for Missile command!  I think I saw they just released a new version of that game in an email.  I should spend more time with Missile Command 3D on the Jag too...

 

Sad that the 5200 had such a short life span and such a troubled start.

gallery_25696_1170_30912.jpg

 

 

That's Dan Kramer's custom 3-button from back-in-the-day. We played A8 3-Base Missile Command - coded by Rob Zydbel (sic) - with it. The 2 extra fire buttons use the Paddle Lines for support. I'm not aware of any new versions of Missile Command being released. Tep392 mentioned on The Facebook the other day that he's been hacking the A8 Missile Command+ hack for 3 bases and 3 buttons but it hasn't been released.

 

Dan and I talked yesterday about the best method for implementing a 3rd button on the CX53. Using the keypad would be the easiest but it would be cumbersome. He thought perhaps pressing both fire buttons at the same time might be an option. It would require extra hardware but I think my preference would be using something like the Atari Track & Field Controller - but wired up for the 5200 - in combination with the CX53. But it's all moot until 3-Base Missile Command and/or Tep's hack of hacked Missile Command+ is converted/released. Or both.

 

3-Base Missile Command also had custom title screens to it that Rob Zydbel (sic) would customize with the person's name, since it was disk based. To implement that for the 5200 would require an EEPROM or in case of the ROM file, supporting such writing via the AtariMax SD Cart.

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