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kl99

Cartridge Dumps, Grom Bank ordering

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Hi,

I am currently with Ciro in his place, we did dump his original cartridge TI Logo II - Deutsch.

We did use the GramKracker device and also verified our finding by reading the grom memory when the module was in and all GramKracker functionality was off.

The cartridge uses

- 8K Rom

- Grom 6000 (bank 3)

- Grom 8000 (bank 4)

- Grom A000 (bank 5)

- Grom E000 (bank 7)

 

The oddity is the Bank 6 is unused but nevertheless its memory space is reserved, as we see the last grom starts at E000

 

It is matching the "information" from the PC99 dump from Mike Wright, but it appears the rpk dump on whtech is using the content of bank 7 at bank6 if you examine the .bin file.

 

Both dumps allow you to start the cartridge, but I can imagine that once the content of the last grom is required only one will work.

 

So the question is, can the Grom Bank be modified without breaking functionality?

 

Br Klaus

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I suppose it depends how the program/data is referenced. You will probably need to change many addresses.

 

Connect Four has always been on bank 4!

Edited by HOME AUTOMATION

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To answer our own question, we just checked the content of the last Grom Bank and it comes with lots of Strings for Cassette Reading in various languages.

We identified already a wrong behavior from the rpk dump.

 

On the original TI LOGO II German cartridge does the following if you:

"LIES" ENTER    [Lies = Read]

"1" (you select PROCEDUREN)

"1" (you select KASSETTE)

 

Now it shows:

Quote

 

   PROZEDUREN LESEN

 

* KASSETTE RUECKLAUF       CS1

   DANN "ENTER" DRUECKEN

 

 

On the rpk Dump of TI Logo II German if you do the same steps

you end up with different texts

 

Quote

 

   PROZEDUREN LESEN

 

* REWIND CASSETTE TAPE      CS1

   THEN PRESS ENTER

 

 

In this case it seems it did fallback nicely to the Texts from the Console Roms/Groms but, this already reveals that the grom needs to be placed at the correct bank, and we have at least one faulty rpk Dump in the collection of Cartridge Dumps.

This will be fun to fix! This motivates me to go back to the tool I started for cartridge dump analysis.


Greetings from Klaus and Ciro

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Klaus, concerning the dumps, in general please use the ZIP dumps, not the RPKs. The ZIPs have largely been verified by me (checking the CRC16 at the end).

 

The TI Logo II zips are logo2.zip, logo2d.zip, logo2i.zip. For all of them, the GROMs passed the verification, the ROMs did not (missing CRC16).

 

[Edit: The tests refer to each GROM separately. If we have a completely different GROM, this will not be shown by the test because the GROM as such may have been dumped correctly.]

 

[Edit2: In file ti99_cart.xml, element "logo2d", subelement "dataarea", if I change the value of offset from "6000" to "8000" in the "logodeg6.bin" line, the cassette text appears in German (you also have to change size to "a000" for the grom dataarea). Thus, the GROM dump is not from GROM 6 but from GROM 7. Interestingly, the Italian version has the same GROM 7 (there seem to be all different language texts), and there, the position is correct as GROM 7.]

 

 

Edited by mizapf

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I suspect if you check the Dutch, French, and Spanish versions too, all of them will have the same GROM7. 

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000017e0: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000  ................
000017f0: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 75fc  ..............u.

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Are the different languages versions registered by the same number, PHM 3109?

 

I'd need the year of release for the Italian version. Apart from that, I doubt that the year "1984" is correct for the English and German version. Chisholm Trail (3110) is from 1982, so I guess this is also true for Logo II.

 

TI Logo I is from 1981, PHM 3040. This may be true; Yahtzee (3039) is 1980, Adventure (3041) is 1981.

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I suspect it is more likely 1983. Even though TI may have assigned the number in 1982, they released cartridges whenever they were actually complete, so the release schedule often bounced around a lot. I know it was in circulation in the late summer of 1983, as it was one of the software options for the PEB bundle they were selling at that time.

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One other thought, that GROM was set up for a lot more languages than ever saw the light of day. . .I wonder if the code for any of the others ever existed?

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Thanks for the help. And sorry for choosing the rpk File. 

The Copyrights we can also try to get right.

Yes, TI Logo English is PHM 3040.

TI Logo II English is PHM 3109.

TI Logo II French shows PHM 3109/FR on its official cartridge label.

For German, Dutch, Italian and Spanish we need to verify, but they all go as PHM3109 as their general reference, in ads or catalogs. There is an European Product Code as well, but only if the release was by TI and not by other companies.

French, Italian and Spanish (Argentinia) saw a Release (something to buy) for sure.

For German and Dutch I am not sure. Only saw a book about german TI Logo and Preproduction Cartridges for both.

Also I am still not sure if there was even a TI Logo I in any other language, but I am here in Italy without my laptop to verify such a claim. Is there any in the whtech dumps?

 

The only save bet is there is a lot of confusion about naming TI Logo II as TI Logo in foreign countries, even from TI itsself.

 

 

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2 hours ago, kl99 said:

Thanks for the help. And sorry for choosing the rpk File.

 

No worry; I just wanted to save you some work that I already did before. For the "official" cartridges (not homebrew ones), the zips should be the reference; I actually found some bad dumps, fixed the zips, but I did not update all corresponding RPKs, as this is not worth the effort.

 

The metadata of the cartridges are collected in the ti99_cart.xml file in MAME, in the folder "hash".

 

As I found, the GROM3 differs in the language versions. The ROMs are the same (for the English, German, and Italian versions). It would be nice to get GROM3 dumps from the other versions.

 

The ROM dump of TI Logo II has an interesting issue with the CRC16. Maybe someone has an idea how to interpret that.

 

...

00001fe0: 0460 a6ec 045b ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff  .`...[..........
00001ff0: ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff fb5b  ...............[

 

The CRC16 code (fb5b) is bad. However, when you replace those ff with 00, it is good. This is no coincidence; CRC16 has its collisions for sure, but if it actually matches with 00 filled in, it was most likely created for that situation. I just wonder why the FF are there. In the German release, the CRC16 word is also replaced by FFFF (which does not match either, but here you would just say there is no CRC16).

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On Logo I, There was an official Argentine Spanish release of that cartridge (I have the manual, but I don't have one of the cartridges yet, although I have seen several folks with one). Both Spanish cartridges use the standard TI cartridge numbers (I have the Logo II). In the case of French, there is an official French (final) printing of the Logo I manual, but I have never seen the cartridge to go with it (I have a copy of the manual, courtesy of Jean Louis). I do have two variants of the French Logo II cartridge, also courtesy of Jean Louis.  I possess a TI Logo 1.1 cartridge in German (on an EGROM cartridge board with a hand-written label, so it is definitely a prototype) and a Logo II cartridge in Dutch. The German and Dutch manuals in circulation are both near-final drafts. I also have the Mondadori Italian Logo II, but no manual.

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8 hours ago, mizapf said:

 

The ROM dump of TI Logo II has an interesting issue with the CRC16. Maybe someone has an idea how to interpret that.

 

 

...

00001fe0: 0460 a6ec 045b ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff  .`...[..........
00001ff0: ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff fb5b  ...............[

 

 

The CRC16 code (fb5b) is bad. However, when you replace those ff with 00, it is good. This is no coincidence; CRC16 has its collisions for sure, but if it actually matches with 00 filled in, it was most likely created for that situation. I just wonder why the FF are there. In the German release, the CRC16 word is also replaced by FFFF (which does not match either, but here you would just say there is no CRC16).

 

We did the dump of TI Logo II German last week and the CPU Memory at >7FF0 is like:

FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FB 5B

 

besides the last two byes the dump is identical to logodec.bin from the logo2d.zip file.

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As I suspected, the ROMs are identical for all TI Logo II versions. Nevertheless, the CRC16 is invalid.

 

My efforts concerning verification of the dumps included to check whether the CRC16 is correct. Typically, all ROMs and GROMs from TI have this checksum at their ends; since there could have been modifications over the years (and there were indeed, remember the cartridges where the autostart was removed), our task in MAME is to find out which one of the dumps is the authentic one.

 

I noted my results in the ti99_cart.xml file, in particular if the CRC16 is not available or invalid. If you have a CRC16 tool, try to run it with the dumps.

 

Here is a Java variant and a C++ variant.

 

Concerning the dump, if you replace all the FF with 00, the CRC16 is correct. It looks as if the CRC was calculated before, then, for some obscure reason, the zeros were replaced by FF. Since you dumped the ROM from an authentic cartridge, we may assume that we have an authentic dump.

 

Crc16.java crc16.cpp

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