Sega 32x : I'm really trying to prefer original hardware over emulation

[seastalker]

A lot of time has passed, and I have since gotten a Hacko solder station, to go with my Hacko desolderer, and lots of other gear. Much of the summer went to projects, and watched a lot of solder videos. Today I revisited the 32x and am proud to say I got it done with the Kevtris fix. I had gotten the video back this summer but the audio came in half way. Today I re-soldered in a new wire that connects the top of the lower board on the right to the top board and the sound is now perfect! I also tested my recapped TG16 on my recapped Commodore 1702 monitor and it looks and sounds glorious!

 

I still hope someone will re-make the 32x with optimizations instead of Sega factory wire patches. If it is remade as a FPGA core (or cart device like a Sonic and Knuckles with top flap for the MegaSD).

[zetastrike]

Just use emulation, god almighty.  I don't understand the way some pigeonhole themselves into "FPGA or real hardware, no exceptions".

[seastalker]

By saying "Just use emulation," is that not the same pigeonhole in reverse? As in "emulation, no exceptions".

 

Feel free to use emulation if you wish, as long as you are playing and having fun.  I rarely lug consoles to friend's houses... emulation is great, especially for arcade games. 

[Zoyous]

I enjoy emulation, and I also enjoy using the original hardware. In the case of the 32X, though... once I started really looking into it and reading about how you install it, I sort of settled on the "why did they ever release this?" point of view. I was originally under the impression that it was kind of like the Master System Converter... you just plug it in as if it was an oversized cartridge itself, and then place another cartridge into it. When you're done with 8-bit games, you unplug it. But the 32X is more like... you're making a permanent, or at least difficult-to-undo, modification to the console. And you've got to somewhat awkwardly insert these metal plates that are heat shields or serve some kind of grounding purpose or something... and it has its own very large power adapter... it's just surprising to me that they would release something as sketchy as that. As for the actual capabilities of the 32X, it's really cool. Really cool and an obvious, dramatic upgrade to the system. But just the physical interface and the installation - to me as a collector, who is able to thoroughly research this and has access to any information and resources that I could want, I just decided to pass on that aspect of the system and let emulation do the heavy lifting. But I can totally understand the people who are dedicated to using the real hardware, it does have a feel that can't be easily simulated by anything else.

[phoenixdownita]

6 hours ago, Zoyous said:

I enjoy emulation, and I also enjoy using the original hardware. In the case of the 32X, though... once I started really looking into it and reading about how you install it, I sort of settled on the "why did they ever release this?" point of view. I was originally under the impression that it was kind of like the Master System Converter... you just plug it in as if it was an oversized cartridge itself, and then place another cartridge into it. When you're done with 8-bit games, you unplug it. But the 32X is more like... you're making a permanent, or at least difficult-to-undo, modification to the console. And you've got to somewhat awkwardly insert these metal plates that are heat shields or serve some kind of grounding purpose or something... and it has its own very large power adapter... it's just surprising to me that they would release something as sketchy as that. As for the actual capabilities of the 32X, it's really cool. Really cool and an obvious, dramatic upgrade to the system. But just the physical interface and the installation - to me as a collector, who is able to thoroughly research this and has access to any information and resources that I could want, I just decided to pass on that aspect of the system and let emulation do the heavy lifting. But I can totally understand the people who are dedicated to using the real hardware, it does have a feel that can't be easily simulated by anything else.

No need for the metal clamps, they were required to pass the then FCC regulations.

 

So in the end it is like a giant cart with its own power input and an awkward but necessary video-in to mix the base genesis signal, I believe in no small part so that you can actually play non-32X games without needing to remove it, plus some/many games used the "genlock mode" to have the base genny render backgrounds ...  it's not all that bad. 

 

Was it necessary? Probably not given the Saturn was released so soon after.

If you have only 2 (Genny+CD or Genny+32x) it is actually not a bad situation since double power bricks exists now, there are triple bricks as well but double for me is the sweet spot (if only genny 1 and genny 2 had the same power connector and polarity .... but alas).
 

 

[Austin]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:13 PM, phoenixdownita said:

No need for the metal clamps, they were required to pass the then FCC regulations.

They are still recommended though, if only for the fact that they make the 32X much more stable/secure. Without them, there's plenty of give in the cartridge slot, and one light bump to the system or 32X can cause a game to freeze.

[eightbit]

Never had any issues without the clips back in the day nor do I now...because I do not use them. I installed them one time on my pristine Genesis model 1 back when it was released and to my dismay the damn metal clips scratched the console. I will never use those again. When the 32X is installed in a Genesis model 1 it is a snug fit...there is no movement. If you install it into a model 2 however you will need the spacer that was included. If you have it, again, snug fit.

 

I have had multiple 32X units over the years (mostly purchased as "untested") and they all worked fine after either a good cleaning or removing the two internal ribbon cables, cleaning those fingers and reinstalling. The latest one I have now was also sold as untested with no cables at all. But I sourced the loopback cable and a PSU and that worked perfectly with nothing else required.

 

I have had better luck with these systems over the years than a whole lot of others.

 

 

As for emulation...meh. If anyone knows me well enough they will know that I have been involved in the software emulation scene since the late 90's. I thought it was great that these games could be brought to the masses without the need for original hardware. I was a moderator of the (now defunct, gone) emulation forum on Digital Press those many moons ago and was a real advocate. But over the years you eventually find its shortcomings. Mainly being the lag that is produced. This alone is precisely why folks are moving either back to the real hardware or to FPGA solutions. Most people will not detect it (or care) but I can certainly feel when games that I have played on real hardware for decades are a "little off".

 

I don't want to turn this into some emulation vs real hardware vs fpga debate as we already have enough of those. But just saying that if you have the ability to play on a real 32X with real hardware you are absolutely getting the best experience....even for the few games that were released. For me it is worth it for Afterburner Complete and Space Harrier...and Virtua Racing alone. These three games are the best home conversions of the arcade in my book. Virtua Racing for the 32X is my personal favorite version of all time due to its arcade feel and tight perfect control.

Edited October 17, 2020 by eightbit

[+chicgamer]

12 hours ago, Austin said:

They are still recommended though, if only for the fact that they make the 32X much more stable/secure. Without them, there's plenty of give in the cartridge slot, and one light bump to the system or 32X can cause a game to freeze.

In my experience, the metal inserts gave me a much worse gaming experience. I would get random freezes when they were installed in my model 1 with the 32X. I have no issues without them.

[Austin]

13 hours ago, chicgamer said:

In my experience, the metal inserts gave me a much worse gaming experience. I would get random freezes when they were installed in my model 1 with the 32X. I have no issues without them.

YMMV I guess. I had the opposite problem with my Model 1.

[+jgkspsx]

The metal inserts are widely considered harmful these days.

 

I really like a number of 32X games, I have a collection of 32X games, and emulation is not great, at least not the cores I'm using on my Genesis Mini. Games crash constantly. So original hardware seems like the only way to have a decent experience without putting a real computer under my TV, which I don't want to do.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I do not use the metal clips and while I don't play a ton of 32x games, I've not had any issues with any of my normal Genesis games having issues unless I bumped the console or something obvious to cause it.

 

[Steven Pendleton]

It's been almost a year, but I finally figured it out a few minutes ago: use the OSSC's generic mode with a few small changes and it works. It doesn't look anywhere near as nice as using optimal timings, especially since I'm literally sitting 2 feet away from my screen and can see everything, but it works well enough for me to be satisfied with it and I can remove the 32X unless I specifically want to play those games so I can still have optimal timings for everything else.

[Keatah]

On 9/27/2020 at 7:25 PM, zetastrike said:

Just use emulation, god almighty.  I don't understand the way some pigeonhole themselves into "FPGA or real hardware, no exceptions".

Indeed. Use what works and provides the best overall experience.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, seastalker said:

By saying "Just use emulation," is that not the same pigeonhole in reverse? As in "emulation, no exceptions".

Not really. Emulation is a way out from under the crushing weight of recalcitrant hardware.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 7:28 AM, seastalker said:

Feel free to use emulation if you wish, as long as you are playing and having fun.  I rarely lug consoles to friend's houses... emulation is great, especially for arcade games. 

I rarely lug arcade cabinets to friend's houses.

[+TwentySixHundred]

Personally i collected for a few of the main systems over about a 15 year span +or-.

 

2600, SMS, NES, Megadrive/Gen, SNES and PSX. However it was cool back in early 00's as people were basically giving this stuff away. After the youtube retro scene exploded so did the prices inflate through the roof. This just gave me the shits and was making the quest to fill my collections near impossible. As someone from PAL land i wanted the NTSC hardware aswell.

 

So when still collecting i got into emulators basically for ease of use and they had matured enough for a fun experience. Got sick of cluttering up my lounge room with old systems and swapping in and out hardware all the time. However i still wanted to collect, then i met my missus who didn't want old retro consoles laying around with wires everywhere. This all got to a point i decided to sell everything off on Ebay.

 

Only system i have left is my SNES and it sits in a wardrobe collecting dust. Anyway in an ideal world, i would love all the hardware i could get and i truly regret selling off everything. Having said all that i started getting heavily into emulation for these systems, and have followed the scene for over 10 years. Im still a member of many the emulation boards and drop by every now and then.

 

The scene has slowed since cycle accuracy is now on the table. Many uses are happy enough with HLE whilst others want LLE. The stale mate and whats slowed the scene is one many uses are happy enough with where it's at. Two those wanting to pursue LLE are running into the issue of computers need to catch up with CPU speed inorder to make LLE feasible. Cycle accuracy takes raw power and alot of it. The average Joe sitting at home just hasn't a PC fast enough to run LLE.

 

Take Higan for example - only my beast of a PC can run higan at full speed without issues. Everything else in the house struggles and well has Snes9x installed only because it's light weight. Anyway i could just ramble on and on so i will wrap up this point.

 

I will say emulation im happy with these days. No messing around with cables or lugging systems around ect. Emulators play well on the 15 hundred LED TVs we have around the house. I can use filters and scanlines if i wanted to but rarely do so. Packing it away is as easy as pressing the esc key. Most emulators for systems im interested in are mature enough and fairly damn accurate. I would like a decent update done to Fusion though for my Sega needs, although i highly doubt Steve ever will. Would be nice to see someone have the passion that Byuu has for the SNES with the Sega scene.

 

Obviously real hardware is awesome, i just don't have the time, setup or money needed to invest anymore.

 

Anyway my two dollars i should stop here