Lost Dragon Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 All the classic Kieren behaviour traits here. Arrogance. Playing the victim Retraction on what he had previously said, once called out over it.. Attempt to end discussion once it wasn't going his way. Issue with a woman. https://forum.retrogamer.net/viewtopic.php?t=23949&start=5580 "Worst thing is that I knew one of the people who interviewed me and would have been my boss, I have worked with them before and we got on very well, but I am far more qualified for their job than they are, making it an even bigger kick in the teeth to be told I am under qualified." "I was applying for the job directly below it and would have been their second in command, so my point is more than valid. They told me that the person they took on had a specific qualification that I don't have, which they said that they didn't require in the initial interview stage, they are now saying they gave him the job because he had that qualification and I didn't, thus saying I am under qualified. It's the same thing really. Anyway I will just carry on at my current job I suppose (which I loathe) but it pays the bills." stvd wrote:It's probably more telling that you knew one of the interviewers and still didn't get it. It probably is, I am starting to think she saw me as a threat, given that when we worked together I consistently outperformed her. I never said she wasn't good enough, I said I was more qualified than her, very different things indeed. And seen as she invited me to a party at her house and we went out to dinner with her and her husband twice when we worked together I would be quite surprised if that was the case. You don't generally invite people you don't like into your home. But anyway I said my bit (which is what this thread is about) so there is no need for certain people to keep arguing my own points in an antagonistic fashion. and despite all that, never states what the job was or for whom KNOBBER HAWKENS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Welshworrier said: Yep, this was a post from last year about why he was banned from here... It was because of his standing up, sorry because of his correcting then over FPGA, sorry it was because sauron was trying it on with his girlfriend. Truly anyone who thinks he's a friend is just potential roadkill on his path to destruction. Eh, still can't get his story straight. He must be talking about another former member here who was banned alongside him, who I was actually in a relationship with prior to all of that occurring. So in essence, he's got it backwards. And just for the record, I'm not the one who banned him, as I wasn't even a mod here at the time he was banned. So, yet more fodder for Kieren's fib locker. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) I clearly don't move in all the right circles, but one of the people he thanked for supporting him: Catherine “Cat” Despira, total unknown to myself, found this about her: "..a journalist and video game historian who debunked the Polybius urban legend in the pages of Retrocade Magazine." Anyone know anymore on her? Just trying to gauge her potential credibility and why she might of been taken in by Kieren. Espically when this also came up on the search : http://therealcatdespira.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-truth-about-catherine-cat-despira.html?m=1 All over my head. Edited February 22, 2020 by Lost Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I'm just going to dissect further Kieren YOUR claims i falsely impersonated a police officer. For a start, you got the role totally incorrect. SPECIAL Constable, as i have started every single time i mentioned my time with Devon and Cornwall Police. My friends and at 1 stage landlords, were the serving officers, both Ex-MET officers. Vicky Rogers (Maiden Name) achieved rank of SGT in Devon and Cornwall Police (based at Holsworthy) and Steven Inner achieved rank of Inspector at Launceston. You could of searched Barnstaple Magistrates records or local newspaper reports (North Devon Journal) and you'd of had the record of me being sworn in. You could of looked up Bradworthy parish council records, you knew my home address as was then, as you sent my magazine scan discs, once you'd copied them for yourself of course, back to address. My attendance along with Vicky Rogers then a PC, was recorded in minutes of each meeting. You all of people should know THIS aspect, the police report when you as a manager at that off licence, were mentioned after your staff were caught twice, selling booze to under age kids. The entire report was online as a pdf file some years ago, probably still is. Police went through all your staff training records and you in your position as manager on the evenings the police enacted their sting operations, were spoken to on at least 2 seperate occasions. When were you going to add that to your defence statement? Page 17 perhaps? You could also have, under the freedom of information act, contacted Devon and Cornwall Police, asking for a pdf copy of all Devon and Cornwall serving Special constables between the years of.. But your not the clever gentleman you like to think you are. And that's why it's childsplay to tear apart each and every allegation you threw at me. That my slimy little 'friend' is why you've ALWAYS needed others. Others to proof read and fact check for you. Others to do your artwork Others to publish your books Others to research for you. OTHERS TO CONSTANTLY BLAME. You called me a Writer, I RESEARCH You claim RVG voted to ban me from the forum, i had quit months before,the vote was about if using a gift interview broke site rules. You soil your undergarments because Amazon.co.uk allow people to base reviews on sample pages they send and customer reviews are approved and mine stayed up and haunted you. Your online history is simple. You rock up creating a thread about David Crane and it gets no response, so you reinvent yourself as this child coder helping his Uncle code games for CDS,FIREBIRD etc, you get caught with your pants round your ankles and what do you do when given chance to admit you'd been a knob? Alter your D.O.B on the forum. You were a knob long before i knew you, you'll remain a knob long after. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) This is YOUR LinkedIn profile kieren : Freelance Writer Future plc May 2012 – Present7 years 10 months Bournemouth, United Kingdom In my freelance work for Future Publishing (formally as an employee of Imagine Publishing) I specialise in providing articles, interviews and other content for the award winning Retro Gamer magazine on a monthly basis. I have also contributed in the past to their leading multi-format modern gaming magazine GamesTM. In my freelance work for Future Publishing (formally as an employee of Imagine Publishing) I specialise in providing articles, interviews and other content for the award winning Retro Gamer magazine on a monthly basis. I have also contributed in the past to their leading multi-format modern gaming magazine GamesTM. Freelance Author Andrews UK Limited Jan 2017 – Present3 years 2 months Luton, United Kingdom Working as a Freelance Author for the largest digital book publisher in the UK I have written over 40 retro gaming related books (both print and digital) including my popular A-Z of series. My publications can be found on Amazon, Kindle and all leading digital book stores. In this role I work with full creative control over my own work with AUK working as the publisher. Events Manager ROM Retro Events (formally Retrovision) May 2012 – Present7 years 10 months In 2012 I took over the management off all aspects of RetroVision, a business specialising in running quirky and original retro gaming events. In 2014 the company was renamed to ROM.. Freelance Writer FUSION RETRO BOOKS LTD Sep 2012 – Nov 20186 years 3 months Luton, United Kingdom I have worked as both a Freelance Writer and Events Organiser for Fusion Retro throughout most of the company's existence. I have contributed to a large number of publications including Retro Fusion magazine, Let's Go Dizzy: The Story of the Oliver Twins, The Commodore Amiga in Pixels and the Retro Now website. I have also helped organise and run various events across the UK as part of the Fusion Retro team. Social Media Specialist Whitbread Nov 2017 – Jun 20188 months Luton, United Kingdom Managing the customer service side of social media across Facebook, Instagram and Twitter through Conversocial for the UK's largest hospitality company. Answering queries, resolving complaints, supporting charities and local businesses, communicating with hotel and restaurant teams and having a lot of fun! Social Media Manager Revival Retro Events Ltd Jan 2013 – Mar 20174 years 3 months I managed the Social Media pages for Revival Retro Events and also helped run and organise all their events. I built the Facebook page to over 12,000 followers and very high level of visibility and interaction. Personal Banker Banco Santander May 2013 – Jul 20152 years 3 months St Albans, United Kingdom As a personal banker I was responsible for all things customer service related including providing new current accounts, loans, overdrafts, credit cards, savings accounts and home insurance. I was also the appointed Mortgage Specialist for the busiest branch in the entire country helping guide customers through the process of buying a new home. Centre Of Excellence Manager Thresher Group Aug 2003 – Apr 20095 years 9 months Sherborne, Dorset As a Centre Of Excellence Manager I was responsible for the training and development of new Managers and Assistant Managers in my region. I also provided wine training for all new members of staff as part of the WSET approved Wine School initiative. I did this along side running a flagship store within the premier Wine Rack division of the company. YOU WROTE THE BASTARD.. So WHY HAVE YOU NOT INCLUDED THIS CHAPTER OF YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS CAREER: Quote from YOU on RetroGamer Forum as i highlighted on page 16 of this thread : Sep 07, 2015 6:01 pm I work for a personalised gift company left that off your profile and we know why. You WERE at Signature Gifts and whilst on shift you ran to Wikipedia with you skirts in tatters and left a cowards statement that i was wrong to call you out on that unproven Lynx sales figure. Next time your at the doctors, see if they can check you out for a backbone and a set of bollocks mate. You appear to be missing BOTH. Yes i mistakenly said Clinton Cards, but you were at Signature Gifts and i challenge you to present PROOF your employment had been terminated when that Wikipedia entry was made. Come on, you puffed up little shirt of a man, let's see this tidal wave your innocent and my claims are lies. Burden of proof is very much on YOU..and YOU ALONE. Not one of your claims against any of we named individuals has held water in the manner you state. You talk of least of my worries.. How was Margate this weekend? Ohhh sorry, we would have to ask your Brother Duncan, as YOU didn't go, why would that be Kieren? Didn't want to bump into your old pals and get all this sorted out, face to face like a real man? Chris Wilkins was there i believe, few others and you could of all had a few drinks and hammered this out. Edited February 22, 2020 by Lost Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) My "Creepy" emails to everyone you'd interviewed then. Well you little spunk trumpet, i had never spoken to Anthony from Imagitec Design before he joined here and he was kind enough to explain your bizarre emails to him. And now he's made a public statement, I can point out it was the LEGENDARY Simon Butler of Ocean Software, whom i interviewed for Classic Console Magazine, who called you out years ago, asking why you constantly played the victim, you then blocked him He described you as Barking Mad to myself. Here's his statement regarding you NOW: thank all the people who have supported me. A Statement by Kieren Hawken.pdf dropbox.com Simon Butler @tandemar Replying to @RetroLaird If anyone supports or believes this man they can only be as delusional as he is. The overwhelming groundswell of support for the retro scene against the unwarranted torrent of vile, painful and dangerous abuse from Kieren cannot be understated. 8:08 am · 22 Feb 2020·Twitter Web App 5 Likes He also put this up: https://twitter.com/tandemar/status/1228282087221886976 Check the weatherforecast Kieren, unsettled outlook for you it seems. Edited February 22, 2020 by Lost Dragon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshworrier Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Ross, please don't take this the wrong way but please stop concentrating on facts that just establish what we already know - i.e. kieren is a douche. This is beyond doubt and it doesn't take a wall of text or three, to just repeat what people know. We know he doesn't check anything, contradicts himself and uses veiled threats. That is not in question. By swamping the new facts e.g. the sock puppet accounts, the police threats etc. It's just detracting and may serve to allow pertinent new information to be lost. This, in turn, will just switch people off from reading - which is precisely what he wants so he can get back to what he's always been doing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Welshworrier said: Ross, please don't take this the wrong way but please stop concentrating on facts that just establish what we already know - i.e. kieren is a douche. This is beyond doubt and it doesn't take a wall of text or three, to just repeat what people know. We know he doesn't check anything, contradicts himself and uses veiled threats. That is not in question. By swamping the new facts e.g. the sock puppet accounts, the police threats etc. It's just detracting and may serve to allow pertinent new information to be lost. This, in turn, will just switch people off from reading - which is precisely what he wants so he can get back to what he's always been doing. I second this. This thread has become quite huge and unwieldy at this point, and it's becoming harder and harder to search through when looking for specific people's experiences. It would be nice if this thread can be kept to just newly uncovered tidbits or for those who haven't done so already to post their own experiences with Kieren. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sauron said: I second this. This thread has become quite huge and unwieldy at this point, and it's becoming harder and harder to search through when looking for specific people's experiences. It would be nice if this thread can be kept to just newly uncovered tidbits or for those who haven't done so already to post their own experiences with Kieren. Apologies I've just had it with people I've not spoken to in years texting and messaging me constantly saying Kieren is calling you out on your claims, even after I have posted corrections to his bullshit. It's hugely frustrating that likes of Octav1us Kitten and myself seem to have to prove our innocence. He's already back to doing exactly what he was doing. YT account and Twitter back up. Legal action is only thing that will stop him People offering him forgiveness is just giving him hope he can return to the fold in due course Simon Butler comment in fairness IS new and Simon god bless him, tried warning people about Kieren years ago,yet they still worked with him. Edited February 22, 2020 by Lost Dragon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Twitter was never offline, at least to this point (he says it will go tomorrow), he just blocked people I’m assuming. Never had an issue accessing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Mayhem said: Twitter was never offline, at least to this point (he says it will go tomorrow), he just blocked people I’m assuming. Never had an issue accessing it. He actually has taken it down twice recently. That is, deactivated his account, and it was inaccessible to everyone. I think you have 30 days to reactivate your account before it's gone permanently. This is just another tactic for him to try and gain sympathy. For example: ..Al 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Since Kieren likes to spread lies, Sauron did not ban him. So you can forget about that as well, or add it to the pile of BS. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Such drama over such a loser. Now I'm probably on his list. Oh well, it's nice to be wanted... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz71 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Lost Dragon said: My "Creepy" emails to everyone you'd interviewed then. Well you little spunk trumpet, i had never spoken to Anthony from Imagitec Design before he joined here and he was kind enough to explain your bizarre emails to him. Kieren (you already told me you're reading this thread), I can confirm I have never had contact with Lost Dragon until posting on this thread. After my post we had a brief three message exchange regarding the existence or not of the Panther at Imagitec. Nothing to do with you. And as I pointed out before, you didn't 'interview me' in the sense I understand what that word to mean. You sent me a questionnaire which I sent back to you [answered]. While I'm posting I need to say... I was happy to remain neutral in all of this in so much that I've never met you or any of the participants in this forum thread in real life. Correction, I obviously spent a few years in Martin Hooley's company and more recently I did do a project with Jim Bagley (we met a few times IRL to discuss technical details of the project) but that's the nearest I have been to anyone involved in this situation. That being said, as someone with 3 kids, one a teenage female, when I read paragraph 3 of page 8 of your'rebuttal' pdf I was horrified. Who the actual f**k do you think you are to make a PUBLIC judgement of how someone else dresses or acts? I'm staggered that you typed out that misogynistic bile thinking that would help your cause. As other people have said, please make an appointment with your GP, when they ask what the problem is, tell them "I believe I have severe personality disorder and it's massively affecting my professional life in negative way and making it impossible for me to create fulfilling, positive social bonds." 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Bliz71 said: As other people have said, please make an appointment with your GP, when they ask what the problem is, tell them "I believe I have severe personality disorder and it's massively affecting my professional life in negative way and making it impossible for me to create fulfilling, positive social bonds." Or just show them this thread and Octav1us' and Chris Wilkins' social media pages. Should do the trick. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Biff Burgertime Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) I read Kieren's response shortly after it was posted, but sometimes it takes my brain a few days to digest things... When I first read it I wondered "Why the fuck does the Octav1us section span 4 pages? With 2 edits???" Some of these other people have been his enemies for 10+ years, wouldn't they be the ones with the longest parts? Hmm... These quotes are from his PDF and an alleged sockpuppet email Octav1us received (with similar phrasing). I get it now. He's furious that she's met with sympathy and care when she talks publicly about mental health issues, but it doesn't work when he does it. He doesn't seem to realize that it doesn't work like magic, it won't work if you act like a douche. Edit: and he even snuck in a "but I'm not angry, bro" after his angry rant! I'm just now reading the past few pages of replies but I agree with above about it being hard to find stuff - it took me a while to find the page this quote from the email. Reminding people to be concise is good, but the thread will be huge either way. It'd be cool if someone could make a Table of Contents to edit into the OP like was done for the Coleco Chameleon thread. Edited February 23, 2020 by Buffalo Biff Burgertime the last bit 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 I am getting a LOT of people privately messaging me about Kieren and all the wrongs he's done to them. Look, if you won't post it publically, don't bother telling me. I can't verify he said/she said. Only you people can, you are the primary witness. I won't post it for you. I'm not a mouthpiece. Not coming forward publically, not saying what you send me in private... will just let him rise again. And the people named as his 'supporters' in that document of lies.... moaning privately about being on listed there... grow a pair. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, Buffalo Biff Burgertime said: I'm just now reading the past few pages of replies but I agree with above about it being hard to find stuff - it took me a while to find the page this quote from the email. Reminding people to be concise is good, but the thread will be huge either way. It'd be cool if someone could make a Table of Contents to edit into the OP like was done for the Coleco Chameleon thread. It's being worked on. Due to the length of the thread though, along with the sheer number of different people who have posted to it, it's taking a while to finish. Rest assured, though, it'll happen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasparks Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 What has he not tainted? I am starting to think I need get a hazmat suit and disinfect my stuff in a Bonfire....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteProdge Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) I have an another insight into K's rather troubling obsession with Octavius. None of his jibes against her stand up to scrutiny, and no sane person would back them, what with his backwards views on women which appear to emanate from the 17th Century. This is about the fact that Octavius has experience as an actor, and a look at why K and the anti-Octavius accounts use that to smear her. Let's remind ourselves of that paragraph in that multi-page 'It wasn't me honest it was fifteen people from the retrogaming community conspiring against me using facts and evidence' grief-warble... And a special someone close to K, who he thanked at the end of his machiavellian masterpiece... Now, Paul Andrews is based in Luton, as is K. He is the publisher of K's rather questionable ebooks and physical books, through his business Andrews UK, apparently "the UK's leading independent publisher" (I think Lulu.com might have something to say about that claim). I'm from a ZX Spectrum background. (Yeah, I know all I've contributed so far to AtariAge is writing in this thread, but I do cover Atari platforms on my YouTube channel and am going to be covering the Atari 800 version of Feud in the near future.) A lot of people know Paul Andrews as the man who invested heavily into the ZX Vega+ project, that hand-held Spectrum emulator that went disastrously wrong as the other senior players - David Levy and Suzanne Martin - severely ripped off the crowdfunders and only delivered the terrible effort to a tiny fraction of its backers. The story is quite well-known even outside of ZX Spectrum circles. I never backed the thing, but had huge sympathy for Paul Andrews's plight and an extreme distaste for what Levy and Martin did to the retrogaming scene. Apparently, Paul Andrews nearly lost his home and he faced a lot of internet trolling, attacking him and his disabled wife. Whatever I say about Paul Andrews (which won't be flattering as you read on), I still have immense respect for him standing up to the con merchants in this debacle. He was the good guy in that incident, unquestionably. I joined one of the ZX Vega+ groups on Facebook trying to keep tabs on what was happening. It was primarily managed by Andrews, with a lot of immense support from George Cropper, who issued videos ridiculing Levy/Martin. These days, Paul Andrews's reputation (and I know this is subjective) is less than glowing in the eyes of many, with the Horace saga which primarily attacked Octav1us and Retro Princess. As a businessman with lots of projects aimed at retrogaming fans (like the dubious TheC64 mini), Paul Andrews has apparently bought a lot of IP rights to retrogaming icons and brands, such as "Sinclair Spectrum", "Jupiter Ace", "Manic Miner", "Jet Set Willy", "A500", etc. I say 'apparently' because as you may notice, the sprites of Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy that his company Subvert Ltd bought, are definitely not authentic. In October, #Horacegate kicked off as Paul Andrews claimed to own the rights to that character (a glance at the UK Trademarks database does not depict that scenario) and did not want Retro Princess making plush toys of that character and he issued copyright strikes against Octav1us's YouTube channel, as she had been using Horace as a comic foil in some of her videos, usually depicting Horace as an obsessive fan, spewing out unrequited love to her. Now, Paul Andrews was successful in issuing two copyright strikes on the Octav1us channel, and we know what happens with the third one. It was a dumb move of his, especially as copyright doesn't really conflate with trade mark. (Especially a trade mark that he has never been fully proven to own.) Paul Andrews issued this statement on his reasoning... Quote At no point have I demanded or asked or even mentioned money to the youtuber this issue is about, I have no interest in their income, this has solely been about the use of our character in a manner we were not comfortable with. There is no point re-treading the story of the past 18 hours or so, other than to be very clear as soon as the youtuber reached out to me via twitter we had a dialogue in which I made it clear I had no axe to grind but was unhappy with the way the character had been used as a sort of co-presenter of the videos but in a sexualised way. I also over the course of the dialogue tried to compromise with them, again even going so far as to offer to resolve the situation with mutually agreed guidelines for its continued use, and even other characters we also own if they wished to. I made it very clear I had sent one email to YouTube, and yes had asked for removal of those handful of videos but did not ask for a copyright strike, nor was I aware why or how two strikes had been issued by youtube having never emailed them before and having no plans to again as things stand, as that was not requested by me. The youtuber declined these offers, and when I requested she make public the fact I was trying to resolve it and would she agree to our conversation being made public she also declined that request. I also told her I would be writing to youtube to ask why they had done two copyright strikes, when I did not request even one, and I have done this as I had already planned to. I have no wish to inflame this situation further but I also cannot stand back and be attacked over claims which are literally untrue, or distorted. I am doing my best to resolve this unfortunate situation, but feel I have to make this statement of the facts, as opposed to wild speculation and untruths being told, let alone threats of physical violence also being made on social media. A lot of questionable claims there. Especially expressing distaste at the 'sexualisation' of Horace. It had been pointed out that George Cropper covered the three ZX Spectrum Horace games on his YouTube channel years before, using very jaw-dropping sexual language, including sexual assault, for laughs, a far cry from Octav1us's portrayal of Horace as a love-struck loser. "Okay Pete, loads of us know this story, what's the new stuff you're bringing to the table?" you may say. In the ZX Vega+ Facebook at the time (specifically 17th-19th October), Paul Andrews was being challenged on why he had used his somewhat questionable ownership of Horace to go after an innocent retrogamer and it was pointed out that his stance was doing him no good. Indeed, many on the retrogaming scene vowed never to touch his products again. Related services, like Anstream Arcade (of which there is an indirect connection with Andrews), were cited as boycott targets. In his responses to me on that Facebook group (which I was kicked out of on 19th October), he continually pointed out that Octav1us was making a lot of money from Patreon, dressed sexily and that she had experience in acting. He got very personal and aggressive about this, repeatedly. I didn't like the portrayal of her as some profiteering 'tits4clicks' YouTuber using thespian skills to milk a Patreon fanbase, this was a truly dark side I was seeing from Paul Andrews. Gone was the nice tone from his time battling it out for Vega+ backers, he was getting very heavy on the Horacegate situation and I saw his comments against her as being rather derogatory. As a stage performer myself (I make no claim to being a proper actor, but I've played characters in comic performances from pubs and clubs to theatres, radio and TV) and as someone who has been through PTSD (as well as knowing other survivors), I rightly told him what an absolute crock of absurdities he was spewing. I'd previously been very supportive of the guy, but I couldn't stand for this, it was a hate campaign. Not many others in that group went against the grain, but sod it. I know what it's like to be incredibly nervous and then just go out in front of an audience portraying strong confidence as an act, practically every stand-up has been through this (and the fake confidence soon becomes real). People with social anxieties and MH issues tend to mask their despair even from close friends and family (as the recent report of a tragedy involving a UK celebrity taking her own life, shows). The biggest irony of this, is that Paul Andrews himself is an actor, check his iMDB profile that lists him in five movies. The hypocrisy is staggering and I told him so on that group. I think that was the catalyst that got me kicked out. Now I don't personally know Octavius/Sarah. I've been in the same room as her one evening in Cambridge and saw she was rather nervous with people she didn't know and was only comfortable around friends. I respectfully kept my distance. (On the stand-up circuit, I've had a few strangers come up to me with praise, which really throws me as it's not like I'm at the Michael McIntyre level of fame/success/aptitude, and I've also had a couple of nasty stalkers, so I can kind of relate.) I've spoken to her once, and that was post-Digitiser-the-Live-Show last year, keeping it very brief, saying that I loved her work. I think I came across as a jittery fanboy. Anyway, I've never liked bullies and the #Horacegate saga really was, in my eyes, the bullying of two vulnerable women on the retrogaming scene. I feel misogyny and jealousy had a big part to play in that. I've always stood up to bullies, I've defended targets of it, some times getting myself in the firing line for some of that abuse. Unsurprisingly, some of that troll network went into overdrive about "white knights" and "SJWs", terms that arseholes use to denigrate those who make a stand against bullying. And, how hilarious that there was some inference that I was only doing it in order to get into a relationship with Octav1us. (I do have the self-awareness to realise that I'm a balding middle-aged gargoyle and the age gap is nearly as wide as the hole in K's credibility.) In all honesty, I'd have done the same had Octavius been a man. And that's the funny thing, Paul Andrews, his author friend and that network of trolls primarily went after vulnerable women. The 'gamer girl' trope being used to smear Octav1us. She's an actress, therefore she's a faker! She's in tight shiny catsuits, practically a porn star! Don't believe her MH woes, it's all fake!... ugh, despicable bollocks. Prior to #Horacegate, a lot of that troll network have many many statements that go after David Levy and Suzanne Martin, the crooks in that Vega+ scandal, as well as World Of Spectrum's Lee Fogarty (who did a lot of work for the Levy/Martin side of things). And while I can't really shed a tear when those con-merchants were getting slated (although the really personal attacks just came across as bitter and immature), it's pretty obvious the trolls have been quite heavily pro-Paul-Andrews. Now, turning to that recent 15-page toilet roll issued by K, specifically the bit that channels Miles Cholmonley-Warner... Quote You claim you don’t like be objectified sexually yet in every video there you are wearing some sort of erotic or skimpy clothing (suspenders, lingerie, skin tight cat suits etc.) whilst making sexual remarks and alluring expressions. And you wonder why you get so much negative male attention? In fact scratch that, because you know exactly what you are doing. It’s probably the same reason there are all these half naked and extremely revealing photos of you online, I would be willing to bet it was you that shared them to get extra the extra attention – got to love all that Patreon money! That does remind me of being on that Facebook group, where Paul Andrews got very personal about Octavius. These 'reasons' are also cited by the troll network. To conclude, I have in mind, three theories... 1) K's obnoxious attitude to Octavius's success has been influence on Paul Andrews? 2) Vice versa, Paul Andrews's obnoxious attitude to Octavius's success has been influence on K? 3) A bit of both, they've come up with this style of attack between themselves? Now I cannot say which one is true, or indeed if any are true. Yet I do recall a very vindictive portrayal of Octavius in that FB group (which she was not a member of). I never saw K there, but then, K had blocked me on Twitter and Facebook quite a while before, for having taken the piss out of his ridiculous claim to have written the (non-existent) Steve Davis Snooker 128K for the ZX Spectrum at the age of 7, on this very forum. Paul Andrews has also blocked me, to nobody's surprise. I don't like citing these personal attacks into the public arena, especially as Octavius is a reader and participant in this thread and I'm not saying I've got the conclusive 'smoking gun', but I've written this rather lengthy post to help join a few dots here and there. At the time, I was convinced George Cropper - being pretty pro-Paul-Andrews - was behind a lot of that troll network. I had it down as either being him or K, perhaps both. I cited that to him on the Vega+ FB group, and he let rip into K's work, saying how he opposed it. With the hindsight we've all gained this month from K's clumsy change of a profile picture on his Google account that ended up exposing his sock puppets, of course I, along with many others, have directly apologised to George Cropper. I'm still not exactly his cheerleader, I don't like the tone of his personal attacks (even when the targets are the despicable Levy/Martin brigade) or his liberal use of "spastic" as an insult (and yes, I know George is physically handicapped, it still rubs me up the wrong way). But I acknowledge George Cropper played a blinder with his two videos on K, he nailed it. He was not behind the troll network. Some of the troll Twitter accounts are still online and if you know how to use Twitter's advanced search on specific usernames (For example, from:reheatedpixels "Out Run" will bring up all tweets from me that use the term Out Run), then you can discover some of the rather favourable-to-Paul-Andrews material that has been tweeted. A not-entirely-complete list of the Twitter troll names... iRetro2017 NickRoperRIP JoeMilano1980 beast66618 jansaggiori dave_jatt TopTwatGaminMan ShillerSimon ArseBiscuits10 Pres_JackTunney RCL_FAN_CLUB thezxkingpin pressedontowel r99152907 GrandadSpectrum joystick_engage retrogamerssuck I reiterate that I have no actual proof that Paul Andrews is involved in the trolling, but I did witness him being very outspoken about Octavius, on Facebook. K has his books published by Paul Andrews. K has seemed, in my eyes, to be very favourable to Paul Andrews. Edited February 23, 2020 by PeteProdge Added the last line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landstalker Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 45 minutes ago, PeteProdge said: I have an another insight into K's rather troubling obsession with Octavius. None of his jibes against her stand up to scrutiny, and no sane person would back them, what with his backwards views on women which appear to emanate from the 17th Century. This is about the fact that Octavius has experience as an actor, and a look at why K and the anti-Octavius accounts use that to smear her. Let's remind ourselves of that paragraph in that multi-page 'It wasn't me honest it was fifteen people from the retrogaming community conspiring against me using facts and evidence' grief-warble... And a special someone close to K, who he thanked at the end of his machiavellian masterpiece... Now, Paul Andrews is based in Luton, as is K. He is the publisher of K's rather questionable ebooks and physical books, through his business Andrews UK, apparently "the UK's leading independent publisher" (I think Lulu.com might have something to say about that claim). I'm from a ZX Spectrum background. (Yeah, I know all I've contributed so far to AtariAge is writing in this thread, but I do cover Atari platforms on my YouTube channel and am going to be covering the Atari 800 version of Feud in the near future.) A lot of people know Paul Andrews as the man who invested heavily into the ZX Vega+ project, that hand-held Spectrum emulator that went disastrously wrong as the other senior players - David Levy and Suzanne Martin - severely ripped off the crowdfunders and only delivered the terrible effort to a tiny fraction of its backers. The story is quite well-known even outside of ZX Spectrum circles. I never backed the thing, but had huge sympathy for Paul Andrews's plight and an extreme distaste for what Levy and Martin did to the retrogaming scene. Apparently, Paul Andrews nearly lost his home and he faced a lot of internet trolling, attacking him and his disabled wife. Whatever I say about Paul Andrews (which won't be flattering as you read on), I still have immense respect for him standing up to the con merchants in this debacle. He was the good guy in that incident, unquestionably. I joined one of the ZX Vega+ groups on Facebook trying to keep tabs on what was happening. It was primarily managed by Andrews, with a lot of immense support from George Cropper, who issued videos ridiculing Levy/Martin. These days, Paul Andrews's reputation (and I know this is subjective) is less than glowing in the eyes of many, with the Horace saga which primarily attacked Octav1us and Retro Princess. As a businessman with lots of projects aimed at retrogaming fans (like the dubious TheC64 mini), Paul Andrews has apparently bought a lot of IP rights to retrogaming icons and brands, such as "Sinclair Spectrum", "Jupiter Ace", "Manic Miner", "Jet Set Willy", "A500", etc. I say 'apparently' because as you may notice, the sprites of Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy that his company Subvert Ltd bought, are definitely not authentic. In October, #Horacegate kicked off as Paul Andrews claimed to own the rights to that character (a glance at the UK Trademarks database does not depict that scenario) and did not want Retro Princess making plush toys of that character and he issued copyright strikes against Octav1us's YouTube channel, as she had been using Horace as a comic foil in some of her videos, usually depicting Horace as an obsessive fan, spewing out unrequited love to her. Now, Paul Andrews was successful in issuing two copyright strikes on the Octav1us channel, and we know what happens with the third one. It was a dumb move of his, especially as copyright doesn't really conflate with trade mark. (Especially a trade mark that he has never been fully proven to own.) Paul Andrews issued this statement on his reasoning... A lot of questionable claims there. Especially expressing distaste at the 'sexualisation' of Horace. It had been pointed out that George Cropper covered the three ZX Spectrum Horace games on his YouTube channel years before, using very jaw-dropping sexual language, including sexual assault, for laughs, a far cry from Octav1us's portrayal of Horace as a love-struck loser. "Okay Pete, loads of us know this story, what's the new stuff you're bringing to the table?" you may say. In the ZX Vega+ Facebook at the time (specifically 17th-19th October), Paul Andrews was being challenged on why he had used his somewhat questionable ownership of Horace to go after an innocent retrogamer and it was pointed out that his stance was doing him no good. Indeed, many on the retrogaming scene vowed never to touch his products again. Related services, like Anstream Arcade (of which there is an indirect connection with Andrews), were cited as boycott targets. In his responses to me on that Facebook group (which I was kicked out of on 19th October), he continually pointed out that Octav1us was making a lot of money from Patreon, dressed sexily and that she had experience in acting. He got very personal and aggressive about this, repeatedly. I didn't like the portrayal of her as some profiteering 'tits4clicks' YouTuber using thespian skills to milk a Patreon fanbase, this was a truly dark side I was seeing from Paul Andrews. Gone was the nice tone from his time battling it out for Vega+ backers, he was getting very heavy on the Horacegate situation and I saw his comments against her as being rather derogatory. As a stage performer myself (I make no claim to being a proper actor, but I've played characters in comic performances from pubs and clubs to theatres, radio and TV) and as someone who has been through PTSD (as well as knowing other survivors), I rightly told him what an absolute crock of absurdities he was spewing. I'd previously been very supportive of the guy, but I couldn't stand for this, it was a hate campaign. Not many others in that group went against the grain, but sod it. I know what it's like to be incredibly nervous and then just go out in front of an audience portraying strong confidence as an act, practically every stand-up has been through this (and the fake confidence soon becomes real). People with social anxieties and MH issues tend to mask their despair even from close friends and family (as the recent report of a tragedy involving a UK celebrity taking her own life, shows). The biggest irony of this, is that Paul Andrews himself is an actor, check his iMDB profile that lists him in five movies. The hypocrisy is staggering and I told him so on that group. I think that was the catalyst that got me kicked out. Now I don't personally know Octavius/Sarah. I've been in the same room as her one evening in Cambridge and saw she was rather nervous with people she didn't know and was only comfortable around friends. I respectfully kept my distance. (On the stand-up circuit, I've had a few strangers come up to me with praise, which really throws me as it's not like I'm at the Michael McIntyre level of fame/success/aptitude, and I've also had a couple of nasty stalkers, so I can kind of relate.) I've spoken to her once, and that was post-Digitiser-the-Live-Show last year, keeping it very brief, saying that I loved her work. I think I came across as a jittery fanboy. Anyway, I've never liked bullies and the #Horacegate saga really was, in my eyes, the bullying of two vulnerable women on the retrogaming scene. I feel misogyny and jealousy had a big part to play in that. I've always stood up to bullies, I've defended targets of it, some times getting myself in the firing line for some of that abuse. Unsurprisingly, some of that troll network went into overdrive about "white knights" and "SJWs", terms that arseholes use to denigrate those who make a stand against bullying. And, how hilarious that there was some inference that I was only doing it in order to get into a relationship with Octav1us. (I do have the self-awareness to realise that I'm a balding middle-aged gargoyle and the age gap is nearly as wide as the hole in K's credibility.) In all honesty, I'd have done the same had Octavius been a man. And that's the funny thing, Paul Andrews, his author friend and that network of trolls primarily went after vulnerable women. The 'gamer girl' trope being used to smear Octav1us. She's an actress, therefore she's a faker! She's in tight shiny catsuits, practically a porn star! Don't believe her MH woes, it's all fake!... ugh, despicable bollocks. Prior to #Horacegate, a lot of that troll network have many many statements that go after David Levy and Suzanne Martin, the crooks in that Vega+ scandal, as well as World Of Spectrum's Lee Fogarty (who did a lot of work for the Levy/Martin side of things). And while I can't really shed a tear when those con-merchants were getting slated (although the really personal attacks just came across as bitter and immature), it's pretty obvious the trolls have been quite heavily pro-Paul-Andrews. Now, turning to that recent 15-page toilet roll issued by K, specifically the bit that channels Miles Cholmonley-Warner... That does remind me of being on that Facebook group, where Paul Andrews got very personal about Octavius. These 'reasons' are also cited by the troll network. To conclude, I have in mind, three theories... 1) K's obnoxious attitude to Octavius's success has been influence on Paul Andrews? 2) Vice versa, Paul Andrews's obnoxious attitude to Octavius's success has been influence on K? 3) A bit of both, they've come up with this style of attack between themselves? Now I cannot say which one is true, or indeed if any are true. Yet I do recall a very vindictive portrayal of Octavius in that FB group (which she was not a member of). I never saw K there, but then, K had blocked me on Twitter and Facebook quite a while before, for having taken the piss out of his ridiculous claim to have written the (non-existent) Steve Davis Snooker 128K for the ZX Spectrum at the age of 7, on this very forum. Paul Andrews has also blocked me, to nobody's surprise. I don't like citing these personal attacks into the public arena, especially as Octavius is a reader and participant in this thread and I'm not saying I've got the conclusive 'smoking gun', but I've written this rather lengthy post to help join a few dots here and there. At the time, I was convinced George Cropper - being pretty pro-Paul-Andrews - was behind a lot of that troll network. I had it down as either being him or K, perhaps both. I cited that to him on the Vega+ FB group, and he let rip into K's work, saying how he opposed it. With the hindsight we've all gained this month from K's clumsy change of a profile picture on his Google account that ended up exposing his sock puppets, of course I, along with many others, have directly apologised to George Cropper. I'm still not exactly his cheerleader, I don't like the tone of his personal attacks (even when the targets are the despicable Levy/Martin brigade) or his liberal use of "spastic" as an insult (and yes, I know George is physically handicapped, it still rubs me up the wrong way). But I acknowledge George Cropper played a blinder with his two videos on K, he nailed it. He was not behind the troll network. Some of the troll Twitter accounts are still online and if you know how to use Twitter's advanced search on specific usernames (For example, from:reheatedpixels "Out Run" will bring up all tweets from me that use the term Out Run), then you can discover some of the rather favourable-to-Paul-Andrews material that has been tweeted. A not-entirely-complete list of the Twitter troll names... iRetro2017 NickRoperRIP JoeMilano1980 beast66618 jansaggiori dave_jatt TopTwatGaminMan ShillerSimon ArseBiscuits10 Pres_JackTunney RCL_FAN_CLUB thezxkingpin pressedontowel r99152907 GrandadSpectrum joystick_engage retrogamerssuck I reiterate that I have no actual proof that Paul Andrews is involved in the trolling, but I did witness him being very outspoken about Octavius, on Facebook. A tad off-topic there, in my honest opinion. It all seemed more anti-Paul Andrews than anything else and as someone who has known Paul for quite a few years, I seriously doubt he would be influenced by anything Kieren said or felt about women in general or certain individuals in particular. This last post, again, only in my opinion and if I make so bold felt like more of a hatchet-job against Mr Andrews rather than bringing anything "new" to the Kieren Hawken affair. I have gone on record on my RetroGamingRoundup podcast that while I have no particular axe to grind against Sarah/Octavius per se I did feel that her naivete regarding the fallout of her public post was less than believable, and her lack of any denouncement for the death threats etc aimed at Paul and his wife was a bit of a poor show and did nothing to enhance her behaviour in my eyes. I have also stated that it is probably very true that she is a very nice young lady I just felt and still do that her behaviour at the time and her posts did little to reflect that. You state that she is an actor playing a part yet decry the suggestion that she is, to use your words a "tits4clicks" Youtuber. Surely, the character of Octavius Kitten is exactly that? It is a sexy character she plays, totally removed from her off-channel persona. But back to the topic in hand, regardless of two people living in the same place and having professional dealings regarding publications, it does not in any way suggest or support your suppositions that they have spent an inordinate amount of time in each other's company. You have mentioned that Kieren makes wild assertions with little or no evidence to prove things, simply to sow the seeds of discontent and general mistrust throughout the scene. I could be mistaken about this, I just can't be arsed trawling back through the hellish maze of insanity that this thread has become. But you don't hesitate for a second to do likewise. "I reiterate that I have no actual proof that Paul Andrews is involved in the trolling"...which in effect can be read as "but I have no concerns whatsoever about planting this possibility in the back of your minds so that you doubt the veracity of this guy from here on in." This is in no way an accusation, I'm just saying that this is how it appears to me and is painfully similar to the behaviour of the man we are all supposed to be discussing on this particular thread. Please don't take any of this to be a slur or an insult because that was never my intention, I just felt we had wandered from the original narrative into some fairly precarious territories. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyspectrum Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, PeteProdge said: I reiterate that I have no actual proof that Paul Andrews is involved in the trolling, but I did witness him being very outspoken about Octavius, on Facebook. K has his books published by Paul Andrews. K has seemed, in my eyes, to be very favourable to Paul Andrews. Pete. Some good points initially made in your post, then it descends into something else. However, to my knowledge Paul Andrews has zero to do with these troll accounts, or with trolling anyone in the retro community. There is a difference between being outspoken in your own name (which is also something i do as you know !) and whipping up a brace of blatantly obvious "troll" accounts to create merry hell across social media. paul is very conscious of his business interests and, as a result, will not be drawn into stuff like this on the whole. he is quite quiet on social media, really. with regards to being outspoken about the OK issue, well, his family were subjected to a horrendous torrent of abuse as a result of what went on. I'm not saying who is right or wrong here, but merely that i can understand how things may have unfolded (i was not really on the internet for a while after this as i was ill, so missed a few months of goings on). besides, i don't want to talk about the ip issue as it's not my place and as far as i am concerned should be left in the past. it really should. it's been dined out on enough. it's a done issue and is over, and it would be better for everyone if it ceased to be brought up at any and every moment. (extremely ill informed) people talk of forgiving KH for a 15+ year campaign of hate against the retro community yet can't forget about an ip issue that's been resolved ? come on. one thing i will say and i have said it before is that if a random stranger came to our house and asked my dad to show him the title deeds for it, my dad would close the door in their face. ip owners have no need to provide "proof" of ownership, especially not to strangers. the burden of proof is on the accuser to disprove and, in reality, the situation is really the business of no-one save for the new ip holder and the former one. again, just my 2p and an unrelated example. can we please stop bringing this up every time any situation goes down in the community. certain people have striven to perpetuate it over and over and it is just tiresome, needless and keeps negativity flowing. finally (and yes i know i said i'd not talk about the ip but this is important), before any wise guys pipe up with "well you are clearly on one side of the fence as you are publishing the horace games" etc etc. yes, i am, and the profits are going to an MS charity. i don't gain anything really from doing so as with the rest of my enterprise which solely exists to give me something to do and to offer a product to the tiny, tiny amount of people who still want physical media. with regards to publishing, paul does not publish kieren's books, paul allows kieren to self publish his books through andrews uk, which is an entirely different matter. i can't say what will happen going forward as a result of this recent debacle, nor is it my desire to presuppose. with regards to andrews uk, i believe they publish tens of thousands of titles, and a look at their site will show that anyone can enter into a (self) "publishing" agreement with them, more or less. people will often choose to go with an umbrella company like this in order to get their books onto amazon and other major online storefronts, for example, which is a time consuming process for individuals as far as i know, anyway, from those i've spoken to about it (mostly people in the fantasy gamebook scene) ultimately, you've ended your post in a way that leaves open the door for suspicion and casts aspersions on someone who is neither here to defend themselves nor have they been in any way proven to be involved. "i haven't seen this happening.... no actual proof.... BUT....." - now do not get me wrong, i am not saying you are the same (what a damning condemnation of anyone that would be !) but this IS the way that KH has conducted his campaign over the years. plant those seeds and watch them grow. i think those of us here are all better than this and, really, if nothing else in this debacle we should learn that chinese whispers and unfounded insinuations are not going to help. yes, you may have your opinion and you are of course entitled to your opinion. however, opinions do not equate to facts. facts are the only things that matter in this situation, as has been reiterated multiple times on this thread. there is only one person who has been a constant in all of these events, and despite who he tries to drag into his maelstrom he will remain the centre thereof. the "thanks to my friends" list in his post, for example, is pure fantasy, with these "friends" almost all being defriended by KH himself when this all started to unravel. Since then i have spoken with most of them and they really don't want anything to do with him, and some are downright furious to be on there as "supporters". it would help if this was said in public, but i appreciate their desire not to rock the boat (despite KH already tearing out most of the hull). their "way" is to discuss such things in private, which they will do to the nth degree, but to expect a public denouncement would merely make them targets for this person and, also, would confirm their foolishness in defending him for all these years. silence has caused this situation, though, but i am a nobody in the grand scheme of things so my opinion on certain people's refusal to comment in public is neither here nor there. the situation is what it is. the problem in the community is the person this thread is about, as they are the centre of it and evidence shows that they require zero outside help in creating a personal hell for themselves. keep focused and let's not go to his level with baseless insinuations and rumour. we must show that we are better than this. Edited February 23, 2020 by Funkyspectrum clarification 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyspectrum Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 well said, landstalker. this is not the place for hearsay. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 On page 11 of Mr. Hawkens statement, in the middle of his attack on George Cropper there is a image of a NHS Document and the document is addressed to To whom it may concern. Now whilst it is perfectly acceptable to send a normal letter addressed in this manner, a NHS Staff member would never do so because it is a potential breach of patient confidentiality, it also flies in the face of information governance training which all NHS staff members have to complete and adhere to, and lastly it breaks the chain of custody regarding that document. Normally if you have to go and see a specialist or consultant for a diagnosis they will create a detailed report regarding a patients symptoms, how it affects them, tests carried out, and diagnosis and treatment options if applicable. A copy of this report will then be sent to the patients GP and addressed to the patients GP, and also a copy may be sent to the patient themselves for the purpose of evidence for a benefit claim for example. But in any case there will be a record of who the document was sent to and when If a document is sent addressed To whom it may concern then anyone in that building can potentially read that document including people who may know the patient and people who have nothing to do with that patients care. ALL NHS staff are trained to only share necessary information with people directly involved in that persons care unless there is an immediate threat to life of the patient or others. Imagine if you will a NHS trust sends out a letter of diagnosis addressed to To whom it may concern. The letter arrives at the persons address and that persons husband/wife opens it, after all its addressed to To whom it may concern, and that letter is from the G.U.M clinic stating that the person has tested positive for a STI for example and it leads to emotional/physical distress or divorce etc. The trust can now be sued for damages because patient confidentiality was breached. It's a bit of an extreme example but you get the point as to why it just would not happen. The only people who have access to a persons medical records are NHS staff involved in the patients care, the patient themselves and anyone who the patient has granted permission to such as insurers, benefit assessors etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, PlanB said: On page 11 of Mr. Hawkens statement, in the middle of his attack on George Cropper there is a image of a NHS Document and the document is addressed to To whom it may concern. Also, if you search for said doctor, they don't actually appear to exist. "I'm not faking having autism, and here's a fake letter to prove that." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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