The review of A-Z of Atari ST Games Volume 3 book RetroLaird is trying to delete!

[Welshworrier]

I think it's the "Hasn't been involved for a year" aspect - people have been raising questions about Ks accuracy for years.

 

If Retro Gamer were warned of the potential issues surrounding his involvement (accuracy, credibility and knock on effects to other staff) then can people say due diligence had been exercised? Short term gain vs long term impact.

 

On Radio 4 last week it was pointed out that the ice shelf in Antarctica is 2 percent constructed out of penguin urine. It seems a rather relevant metaphor for how the magazine is now viewed - no matter how clean the articles look, you are always going to be concerned about the urine that could make it up.

[Felice_Atari]

11 hours ago, tomasparks said:

I've been reorganising my room and came a cross 150+ retrogamer mags, Mr K has tainted them for me, so in the bin they go......

Please mate, don't do this. Sell them instead, a much better thing to do. Fortunately Retro Gamer has survived over all these years and we love it (at least I do) despite KH's occasional articles in the magazine over the years. They are certainly collectible and may well earn you a fair amount of cash. Please don't just bin them, that's chavvy

[tomasparks]

10 minutes ago, Felice_Atari said:

Please mate, don't do this. Sell them instead, a much better thing to do. Fortunately Retro Gamer has survived over all these years and we love it (at least I do) despite KH's occasional articles in the magazine over the years. They are certainly collectible and may well earn you a fair amount of cash. Please don't just bin them, that's chavvy

I was thinking of selling them in groups before this sh*t storm, after I took out the damaged and to keep one.

But now I don't even want to touch them, I used to know of a second-hand computer shop that may have taken them, but I am no-longer local to that shop

[Guest]

Ok one last dip in. I know people are saying that Darran isn't to blame and all this. 

 

He comes across as a nice fella, I'll give you that. I've never met him and aside from a couple of issues of the mag where there were more snaps of his own boat than the games featured I have nothing against him.

 

The problem is that there can only be one person held responsible for giving work at the mag to K. He's the editor. The buck stops with him.

 

I wouldn't want anyone to lose their job and I certainly want him to stay as editor. When he first came in some of the changes they made to the magazine- the quality of paper, print and design were a vast improvement...

 

But, It would be nice if he could find a way to acknowledge that he made a gaff in employing someone with dubious pedigree.

 

At the end of the day if you can make cohesive sentences and speak passionately about a subject you know and have researched then that is all that matters; however, he must have known from his own flame-war type exchanges that led to K getting work on RG that it would lead to trouble, would taint both his and his magazine's credibility. 

 

Kizza's assertion that Jaguar ports of Atari ST games should be coded from 'the ground up' highlights just how little he knows about programming. 

 

Can someone find that thread ? I could have sworn it was here on AA.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Guest
I don't need to ask permission to give my opinion

[Guest]

https://reviewfix.com/2019/08/kieren-hawken-video-game-books/

So Kieren Hawken has been 'interviewed' here. I have to put 'interviewed' as it comes across more as a sort of under the table game of footsy. 

It makes for a very 'interesting' read. It is very funny, particularly Kieren Hawken's answers continually reference 'Reviews' which he himself has written!

[+CyranoJ]

1 hour ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

Also if I may, K's assertion that Jaguar ports of Atari ST games should be coded from 'the ground up' highlights just how little he knows about programming. 

 

People need to stop calling him "K" - His name is Kieren Hawken and his name deserves to be dragged into the mud. 

 

This is not aimed at Vince - there are multiple Twitter threads with 'K' or people not naming him for whatever reason, and then many posts of "Who is K?" and "Who are you talking about?" - and worse, then people making wrong guesses!

 

Don't be shy, name this fucker. Allow Google to find your posts when people search for him. Please stop giving him anonymity. 

 

Secondly, his attacks on the Jaguar ST ports are purely because I did them - and apparently I'm a 'ringleader' - it's just him throwing his 'special shade of shit' my way.

 

For the link, click the 'etc' in my signature.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CyranoJ said:

 

People need to stop calling him "K" - His name is Kieren Hawken and his name deserves to be dragged into the mud. 

 

This is not amied at Vince - there are multiple Twitter threads with 'K' or people not naming him for whatever reason, and then many posts of "Who is K?" and "Who are you talking about?" - and worse, then people making wrong guesses!

 

Don't be shy, name this fucker. Allow Google to find your posts when people search for him. Please stop giving him anonymity. 

 

Secondly, his attacks on the Jaguar ST ports are purely because I did them - and apparently I'm a 'ringleader' - it's just him throwing his 'special shade of shit' my way.

 

For the link, click the 'etc' in my signature.

It's a fair point, CJ. I take it on board. If his name continues to be used in full it will index in search engines and this ultimately is what we want to collate as much information for those less informed to seek out and just see, not even need to mine for it, but to come across it as soon as possible so as not to be duped into buying whatever old shit he is selling this week.

 

 

[Guest]

I was trying to think of nicknames for Kieren Hawken the other day but gave up not because it was too difficult but because it was too easy. Shooting fish in a barrel. I've got dozens.

But what I really find quite funny is how his surname Hawken derived from Hawking, I assume, to Hawk. 

[+Sauron]

4 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

 

People need to stop calling him "K" - His name is Kieren Hawken and his name deserves to be dragged into the mud. 

 

This is not aimed at Vince - there are multiple Twitter threads with 'K' or people not naming him for whatever reason, and then many posts of "Who is K?" and "Who are you talking about?" - and worse, then people making wrong guesses!

 

Don't be shy, name this fucker. Allow Google to find your posts when people search for him. Please stop giving him anonymity. 

Don't worry, it's already happening. I don't think anyone shortening his name for the sake of brevity is going to do much harm. The actions he has committed are already getting noticed.

 

 

[Landstalker]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Don't worry, it's already happening. I don't think anyone shortening his name for the sake of brevity is going to do much harm. The actions he has committed are already getting noticed.

 

 

You can rearrange the letters to get Knee Hi Wanker.

[Welshworrier]

He'll start using his middle name and, fitting in with the Hawker content above, will become Bill Hawken. A chum of Bill Posters.

[+CyranoJ]

He'll always be The Liard.

[Welshworrier]

Am i the only one thinking he'll turn up in the beast666 guise, 3 posts on.

[Felice_Atari]

It was interesting to be at the Revival event this past Saturday, which was organized by Mr T, Chris Wilkins and others - there was a definitive vibe there which had maybe been missing by quite a lot when Kieren was involved with the team. He personally (obviously) wasn't there, but his brother was, though I didn't speak to him. I find his brother to be rather odd with me.

 

Hope to maybe see some of our US Atari gaming friends from here at Revival 2020 Part 2 in November, 7th and 8th. Would be so cool to have Albert and others at the event for sure

 

 

[+Sauron]

51 minutes ago, Felice_Atari said:

It was interesting to be at the Revival event this past Saturday, which was organized by Mr T, Chris Wilkins and others - there was a definitive vibe there which had maybe been missing by quite a lot when Kieren was involved with the team. He personally (obviously) wasn't there, but his brother was, though I didn't speak to him. I find his brother to be rather odd with me.

 

Hope to maybe see some of our US Atari gaming friends from here at Revival 2020 Part 2 in November, 7th and 8th. Would be so cool to have Albert and others at the event for sure

 

 

I would love to go, and with that time mentioned, there's a real possibility I could be there.

 

[Guest]

This is an extract from that Review Fix (Never heard of it) interview from before that I posted a link to, with a big picture of the boy himself and the book he was hawking removed. I've just chopped together the most choice quotes. If you hold in mind his almost split personality levels of Sock Puppetry and the fact that he writes the reviews for his own books, this makes good reading.

[Guest]

I've just noticed something. If you do a search 'site:wikipedia.org kieren hawken' it becomes apparent

that someone has been systematically linking / using his A-Z titles as sources even though they are nothing of the sort.
They are also quoting his opinions of games as if he is some credited authority.

 

The problem here of course is those people who go to wiki and read about these games then go buy his book. Now that is ironic really as most of the content of those books is lifted directly from wikipedia

[+Sauron]

Wow, amazing! I think we found somewhere that Kieren didn't leave on bad terms or was outright banned from:

 

https://gameon.freeforums.net/

 

Of course, considering the last post on there was from sometime in 2015, I don't imagine it's very active...

 

 

[Landstalker]

On 3/5/2020 at 4:11 PM, Welshworrier said:

Carry on regardless... Featuring Kieren "i see no ships" Hawken.

 

 

 

[StarshipUK]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:00 PM, Felice_Atari said:

Various people from my past who I am no longer associated with (fortunately) had tried to manipulate or dupe me, noone from the retrogaming scene or the demoscene is included within that. Not even Kieren or StarshipUK can I add to that; as I say. The people I'm largely talking about are those teachers who bullied and abused me when I was at school; also the management team at a well-known supermarket in the town I was born where I worked at for a while, but maybe this is getting a bit TL;DR.

I do not know who you are and don't believe I have ever met you, but I have never duped anyone, manipulated anyone, bullied anyone or abused anyone, created fake accounts or spoken untrue of anything about anyone behind their backs. I provided an awful lot of time and equipment from my collection to events, nearly all at my own cost or not reflecting the wear and tear costs or amount of time and effort I had put in to make it break even and never let anyone down except once when it was impossible not to as I was incapacitated and hospitalised, for what was a tiny event and compensated them financially for several hundred pounds out of my own pocket as a result.

I met some nice people, some people who turned out to be not so nice and a few who unexpectedly stabbed me in the back, where I do not and have never seeked conflict or drama. Working with just one person who others do not like, can stop them from working with you or give them a incorrect opinion of you.

While I know I am different in the way I think to other people about things, slightly paranoid at times (sometimes with good reason after I found out others I trusted had spoken badly about me), used to strive to be a perfectionist, seeing fault in things to try and seek future improvement including things I did myself, I sometimes come across differently in writing to what I actually mean and do in person, and its easy to be misunderstood. Its a shame there are some others who will dislike you just because there is someone else who dislikes them, and especially if it is someone you have helped in the past and done no wrong against.

While he is one of the reasons that drove me away from the events (with him being involved in so many), there was others including an events organisers who accused me of being a pervert who should not be allowed near women, and hitting a low point mentally myself where I resorted back to self harming, which some people did not believe, but was fortunate enough I had some real friends outside the community who helped me through. I apologise to you and anyone else if there is anything I have said to have offended you, but I am not a nasty person. I am not saying this to try to get back into the events community either as it was my past and not my present or future, but there are a few people I lost friendships with that I would liked to have kept.

[Felice_Atari]

21 hours ago, Sauron said:

I would love to go, and with that time mentioned, there's a real possibility I could be there.

 

 

It would be lovely to see you and our other friends from here who are based across the pond. You will love it, I'm sure

 

Do keep an eye on the website http://www.revivalretroevents.co.uk/

 

Although if you're friends with Craig and Chris on Facebook you'll also get to hear more details there.

 

Decently-priced flights can be obtained via Norwegian from the US to the UK; they fly into London and Manchester then it's a case of getting a train to Walsall / Wolverhampton area.

 

 

[+Sauron]

1 hour ago, Felice_Atari said:

 

It would be lovely to see you and our other friends from here who are based across the pond. You will love it, I'm sure

 

Do keep an eye on the website http://www.revivalretroevents.co.uk/

 

Although if you're friends with Craig and Chris on Facebook you'll also get to hear more details there.

 

Decently-priced flights can be obtained via Norwegian from the US to the UK; they fly into London and Manchester then it's a case of getting a train to Walsall / Wolverhampton area.

 

 

I would be flying from the east, not the west, and I'm sure I could find a reasonably priced flight that way. But we shouldn't derail this thread with this particular topic. Someone should post about it here if it hasn't been done already.

 

 

[Felice_Atari]

So Kieren himself * tried * to contact me on FB, to say that he was completely innocent of all that had been written about him over the last few weeks on this thread and elsewhere.

 

Bollocks, man.

 

Your actions have led to a large number of people who I care about and for, suffering in unimaginable ways thanks to your input, including hospitalisation in some cases.

 

Needless to say, he has now been blocked completely.

 

[Guest]

 

So I was skimming about the other day and was reminded of when Kieren was over on atari-forum and was using the Retro Gamer name (and magazine cover) as his user-name (taking liberties from the very get-go) and was asking other forum users for suggestions of ST only games.

 

Top

 

Retro Gamer Atari Retro freak
Posts: 13 Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:40 pm Location: South England Contact: 

Contact Retro Gamer Atari

Re: Retro Gamer Mag: Need Some Help On ST Exclusives!

 

 

At this time I had not had any interactions other than a brief chat when I went to one of my first retro events (IIRC).

 

I would have thought someone who was such a knowledgeable die-hard Atari fan would have had a big list of games in mind already (aside from his pre forum wikipedia raid).

 

So you get a few well intentioned replies and you get a couple of 'you're a journalist, do your job' type things.

Which was a fair hit considering he was 'chosen' to write this article (due to his supposed incredible knowledge of the system!).

 

So let me get this straight, in my mind;  ?

 

This self proclaimed ' Expert ' and ' Video Game Historian ' who had a 520STfm as a kid was totally oblivious to the outer game scene beyond his ST. By which I mean: 

 

He can't have been buying and reading the Multi Format mags like the original The One 16 Bit , Zero and Ace and others which I should imagine would have made a point of the fact that those games were ST exclusives when reviewed, or at least in passing in issues down the road. Or even ST/Amiga Format - all of which you would have thought made a point about the ST exclusive even only on the basis that they were rare.

 

Even the playground banter would have brought up a few ST exclusives in the [Format Wars] ' St / Amiga ' edition.

 

We used to use that kind of thing as fodder. The Olli & Lissa II: Halloween game was one that was regularly thrown my way in the 'Spectrum / C64' version for example; where I would happily throw back (original) ' Last Ninja ' say.

 

I can't off the top think of any major ST only games I remember back in the day, but I also appreciate I came to the Amiga late in the day in mid 91 when the ST was on its way out. I'd have and do know the Amiga exclusives. 

 

But if they were there he (Video Game Historian) should know!

 

Not coming from the Atari side my appreciation has been much more recent and I am inclined to bow to people's superior knowledge of a subject or system that I am much less familiar with.

 

If I don't know, then tell me, I'm interested. That's my attitude.

 

Feels like Kieren Hawken just decided one day to pick an outsider. Then bang on about it, bully Jones until he gave in into giving him a piece; then went over to that forum, took people's suggestions.

 

Gerbil then goes scurrying back over to youtube and wikipedia (his favourite go-to 'reputable source') then knocked out the article.

 

Once he had therefore established himself as a contributor to let us not forget, the ' Award Winning Retro Gamer ' he built and built apon it until he had a small but loyal band of weirdos and nutjob sycophants (as well as his cabal of puppets / split personalities) he changes track and started pumping out 'books' for all the popular formats.

 

When I had met him he was all 'Jaguar', had no time for any system that wasn't Atari. Used to throw about the most

ridiculous nonsense about why he hated the C64 and others... Let alone his thoughts on the 'Lynx'.

 

Chewing people's ears off over the Jaguar and his supposed superior knowledge and found yourself just agreeing with him and zoning out, only to now realise that even then he was talking utter shite and didn't have a fucking clue.

 

I suspected as much as time went on and we become facebook friends, but I thought at the time, well he knows more than me because my exposure to Atari systems had been quite limited.

 

I had a 2600 and until recently that was it. I'd followed all the games though. I DID buy the magazines I devoured them. Recently I've got really into the A8 series and my own 800XL.

 

Anyway just a little revelation on my part really. Everything he has ever said from the very beginning was complete and utter shite. I don't know if he got bullied at school, but I bloody hope so.

______________________________________________

 

• I don't know user remowilliams , but I'll give him credit for calling out Kieren back then.

 

• One of the defending members of the forum was Greyfox™, who subsequently had his own choice interactions with the boy himself !

 

• Despite the implication of his user-name / profile pic combo, His first gig for RG only appeared in issue 105 (published in August 2012) - If that wasn't a bloody big red flag, then what was ? the issue that claimed the Atari ST an Amiga Beater (make of that what you will).

 

• I only came to know all this 'previous' apon falling out with him after the ROM fallout. I knew there was something a bit odd about him but I couldn't put my finger on it.

[Landstalker]

6 hours ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

 

So I was skimming about the other day and was reminded of when Kieren was over on atari-forum and was using the Retro Gamer name (and magazine cover) as his user-name (taking liberties from the very get-go) and was asking other forum users for suggestions of ST only games.

 

Top

 

Retro Gamer Atari Retro freak
Posts: 13 Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:40 pm Location: South England Contact: 

Contact Retro Gamer Atari

Re: Retro Gamer Mag: Need Some Help On ST Exclusives!

 

 

At this time I had not had any interactions other than a brief chat when I went to one of my first retro events (IIRC).

 

I would have thought someone who was such a knowledgeable die-hard Atari fan would have had a big list of games in mind already (aside from his pre forum wikipedia raid).

 

So you get a few well intentioned replies and you get a couple of 'you're a journalist, do your job' type things.

Which was a fair hit considering he was 'chosen' to write this article (due to his supposed incredible knowledge of the system!).

 

So let me get this straight, in my mind;  ?

 

This self proclaimed ' Expert ' and ' Video Game Historian ' who had a 520STfm as a kid was totally oblivious to the outer game scene beyond his ST. By which I mean: 

 

He can't have been buying and reading the Multi Format mags like the original The One 16 Bit , Zero and Ace and others which I should imagine would have made a point of the fact that those games were ST exclusives when reviewed, or at least in passing in issues down the road. Or even ST/Amiga Format - all of which you would have thought made a point about the ST exclusive even only on the basis that they were rare.

 

Even the playground banter would have brought up a few ST exclusives in the [Format Wars] ' St / Amiga ' edition.

 

We used to use that kind of thing as fodder. The Olli & Lissa II: Halloween game was one that was regularly thrown my way in the 'Spectrum / C64' version for example; where I would happily throw back (original) ' Last Ninja ' say.

 

I can't off the top think of any major ST only games I remember back in the day, but I also appreciate I came to the Amiga late in the day in mid 91 when the ST was on its way out. I'd have and do know the Amiga exclusives. 

 

But if they were there he (Video Game Historian) should know!

 

Not coming from the Atari side my appreciation has been much more recent and I am inclined to bow to people's superior knowledge of a subject or system that I am much less familiar with.

 

If I don't know, then tell me, I'm interested. That's my attitude.

 

Feels like Kieren Hawken just decided one day to pick an outsider. Then bang on about it, bully Jones until he gave in into giving him a piece; then went over to that forum, took people's suggestions.

 

Gerbil then goes scurrying back over to youtube and wikipedia (his favourite go-to 'reputable source') then knocked out the article.

 

Once he had therefore established himself as a contributor to let us not forget, the ' Award Winning Retro Gamer ' he built and built apon it until he had a small but loyal band of weirdos and nutjob sycophants (as well as his cabal of puppets / split personalities) he changes track and started pumping out 'books' for all the popular formats.

 

When I had met him he was all 'Jaguar', had no time for any system that wasn't Atari. Used to throw about the most

ridiculous nonsense about why he hated the C64 and others... Let alone his thoughts on the 'Lynx'.

 

Chewing people's ears off over the Jaguar and his supposed superior knowledge and found yourself just agreeing with him and zoning out, only to now realise that even then he was talking utter shite and didn't have a fucking clue.

 

I suspected as much as time went on and we become facebook friends, but I thought at the time, well he knows more than me because my exposure to Atari systems had been quite limited.

 

I had a 2600 and until recently that was it. I'd followed all the games though. I DID buy the magazines I devoured them. Recently I've got really into the A8 series and my own 800XL.

 

Anyway just a little revelation on my part really. Everything he has ever said from the very beginning was complete and utter shite. I don't know if he got bullied at school, but I bloody hope so.

______________________________________________

 

• I don't know user remowilliams , but I'll give him credit for calling out Kieren back then.

 

• One of the defending members of the forum was Greyfox™, who subsequently had his own choice interactions with the boy himself !

 

• Despite the implication of his user-name / profile pic combo, His first gig for RG only appeared in issue 105 (published in August 2012) - If that wasn't a bloody big red flag, then what was ? the issue that claimed the Atari ST an Amiga Beater (make of that what you will).

 

• I only came to know all this 'previous' apon falling out with him after the ROM fallout. I knew there was something a bit odd about him but I couldn't put my finger on it.

I wouldn't even credit Kieren with the brains to actually "CHOOSE" a system, regardless of it being an outsider.
""had no time for any system that wasn't Atari. Used to throw about the most

ridiculous nonsense about why he hated the C64 and others... Let alone his thoughts on the 'Lynx'."
I get the feeling at times that Atari was all he had left to choose from because even in his own stunted mind he realised that there were people who knew infinitely more about the others systems that even he, with the help of wikipedia, could never hope to match.
Talking to people within the community, it never ceases to amaze me at the depth of their knowledge of, not only the systems they hold dear, but the titles released for said machine.
They know dates, names, technical specs and more and it is patently obvious they are speaking from the heart, about something they are passionate about, not simply trotting out facts learned by rote as dogma.
He is a regurgitator of other peoples facts, with nothing to add whatsoever.

But on to another point.

Felice_Atari says "Kieren himself * tried * to contact me on FB, to say that he was completely innocent of all that had been written about him over the last few weeks on this thread and elsewhere."

So he will contact individuals, but cannot refute to the masses any or all of the claims laid at his doorstep.
Oh, I know we had the "Statement" for whatever that was worth, but at no point has he ever brought any proof to the table. He makes wild and spurious counterclaims, again with nothing more than the tattered rag that is his word to try and establish any "truth" to back them up. 
He is now revealed to a wider and more enlightened crowd as the talentless ass-monkey that those who have had the misfortune of encountering him already knew.
His empty claims of new projects cannot be verified, unless he wishes to share this information and disprove me.
If they are true, I pity those feckless enough to hire this malignant, shit-magnet, they will only regret their actions in the fullness of time.

Please keep the posts coming. This topic cannot be allowed to disappear or lose traction. Pressure must be maintained.