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The review of A-Z of Atari ST Games Volume 3 book RetroLaird is trying to delete!

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1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

I've been staying away from this topic as I had nothing more to add, frankly I find it upsetting, as I'm sure most people here do and whilst I understand the anger and frustration, I don't feel that criticizing the quality of someone's writing or grammar or making memes is why I posted here in the first place. I agree that some of the stuff he has written is clearly factually wrong, which sets my pedantic metre off (Tom and Jerry chips in the Lynx?!), and the spelling and grammatical errors are not great for books that are being charged for, but none of that is worth publicly chastising or shaming someone over in my opinion. The truly serious stuff that he is being accused of is the targeted harassment and abuse coming from sock puppet accounts, things like Horracegate, trying to ruin people's careers, damage their mental health, attack their personal and professional relationships. Those to me are the serious alleged crimes here and though I understand people wanting to comment on Kieren's professional output, I have no need or urge to join in with that, and I might suggest that if people feel there is a potential criminal case here, that correcting spelling and such is just obfuscating the more serious matters at hand.

 

I really only posted to this topic in the first place for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was just posting to try to give some context, attempting to defend my IRL friends (several of whom are now thankfully regularly posting here and can stand up for themselves), including but not limited to Sarah, Hannah, Kim and Larry, all of whom I can comfortably say are some of the most lovely and genuine friends I've had. I just want things to go back to the state where everyone can be peaceful, happy, calm, and just return to having fun sharing memories about old games we all love. I cannot speak more highly of the integrity of any of those guys, I adore them all and they have all shown me great kindness over the years. I'm glad to see Kim posting in here to clear up the screenshot issue, and can 100% vouch for her as kind, selfless and honest to a fault.

 

Whilst I genuinely didn't plan on posting again, I was alerted to this, where Kieren named me directly:

Working in the entertainment industry as I do, its usually best not to comment on any controversies publicly, and my first instinct in all this was to just stay quiet and defend my friends offline and out of the public eye. But the second, and frankly deciding reason that I chose, against my instincts, to post publicly, was because I knew that Kieren would be likely to see, as it seems he is monitoring this stuff very closely. So, if I may just reply personally to him here:

 

Kieren. Thank you for your kind words. I genuinely really do appreciate them and am glad that you feel that way about me. I always try and be kind, fair, understanding and honest. I have never wanted anything more in this little retro world than to make friends and chat about mutual interests with nice people. You know some of the issues and worries I have had, and I expect you can understand why all this online drama over various things for over a year now has made it hard for me to feel safe or inclined to come back and post. I will do eventually I'm sure, I have recorded many videos and collaborated with many wonderful people on them, so I can't let those go unpublished. It just doesn't feel like the right time quite yet. In my reply to your 15 page statement, I hope you noticed that I fully gave you the benefit of the doubt in suggesting that if you have evidence that can prove your innocence of charges lobbied at you, you should make it very open and clear your name. I never once threw you under the bus or said I fully believed it, just that it looked pretty bad, which you must admit that it does. You know where my closest friendship and loyalty lies, and you know where you overstepped the mark in your statement with a misleading half truth that seemed spiteful in intent, and why I as a loyal friend would be upset and feel duty bound to step in. I hope you don't blame me for this or feel that I have been disloyal to you, if you truly consider me a friend. As I clearly stated several times, I did consider you a friend and enjoyed our chats both online and in person. I have continually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. And even if you are guilty of everything you are accused of (which, if you cannot prove it other than vaguely telling people to search twitter, sadly, seems likely), like others here who are my good friends, I will once again reiterate that I wish you no ill will, and urge you to apologise, take some time offline and concentrate on your family, and get some counselling or support to work through why or how it ever got to this point. Stewing and plotting and obsessively monitoring all this is not healthy and will just lead to more troubles. I stated before that even despite all this and how bad it looks, if I bumped into you I'd still buy you a pint and have a chat. Whether you are guilty or not guilty either way I want you to get better and come through this, for the sake of your kids. I just want all the negativity and toxicity to end. Again, thank you for your kind words about me, and I'm sorry if my messages upset you, that was never the intention, hopefully its always been clear that I'm coming from the position of worrying about everybody, and wanting to help everyone, including you. Whoever is responsible for all this (and if you can prove its not you as you said, then do yourself a favour and prove it, otherwise literally no-one will believe you)... this needs to stop.

 

To anyone reading the above who is triggered or upset by my kind, forgiving or understanding tone, please try and resist the urge to correct or chastise me and understand its just how I am, I can't bring myself to hate anyone no matter what they do. I'm the kind of person who when I am robbed I feel sorry for the robber as something in their life must be really bad to have gotten them to that point and they probably need the money more than I do. I have made it clear that from what I have seen and read, it looks like Kieren is guilty of some or all of the accusations, I know for a fact that certain things he has publicly said in his own name were both untrue, and extremely hurtful and damaging to one of my best friends, seemingly designed to be so, and for this I am very upset, and I have told him in no uncertain terms to stop, and get help. I think that's as fair as I can be. We all deal with situations in our own ways, and as both a mental health advocate and also someone who has dealt with several strong issues of his own, and has coached many family and friends through a variety of similar conditions and issues, its my instinct to feel sad and want to help, rather than to feel angry and want to chastise. I apologise if anyone feels that my attitude in anyway lessens their own personal pain, anger, or experience of this situation, that is not my intention, I respect your experience and reaction to this situation, please do the same to mine. Thank you in advance.

I have no issue with you defending him or giving him the benefit of the doubt, because above all, this is about honesty, and if he is your friend, then that is how friends respond to friends.

 

If Kieren indulged in a bit of the same as you're doing, then he wouldn't be in this mess, but he seems determined to continue unabashed, presumably hoping to ride this never ending storm out.

 

What needs to happen from my perspective is Kieren needs to realise that this isn't going away, that he isn't "winning", that he is at the juncture of being believed by virtually no-one, and he needs to accept that, and make a statement to that effect.

 

No more 15 page whining about how without evidence he magically tries to exonerate himself, he either produces evidence FINALLY to prove his innocence and shut us all up, or, as we know he doesn't have any (because otherwise he just likes the drama!), come clean, make a statement saying so, apologise to individuals he needs to apologise to, and starts sorting out his conduct.

 

No-one likes a witch hunt, but at the same time, no-one likes someone that outright refuses to learn and get the message that their behaviour is not acceptable.

 

So you continue to defend your friend, he seems to have precious few of those, and he's not listening to anyone right now, he is trapped in the mindset of "its everyone elses fault not mine!", if anyone can get through to him, someone like you might, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

This thread is on page 56, and this isn't because we've all got nothing better to do, its because Kieren won't learn that his behaviour is below the standards expected of an adult.

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11 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

But good spot Mayhem, keeps us on our toes 

And even then I can’t get it right, but at least I will self correct. Re-read it and like, what a numpty, the ESB conversion kit came out in 1985 not 1984 heh.

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2 hours ago, PixelsLtd said:

I've been staying away from this topic as I had nothing more to add, frankly I find it upsetting, as I'm sure most people here do and whilst I understand the anger and frustration, I don't feel that criticizing the quality of someone's writing or grammar or making memes is why I posted here in the first place. I agree that some of the stuff he has written is clearly factually wrong, which sets my pedantic metre off (Tom and Jerry chips in the Lynx?!), and the spelling and grammatical errors are not great for books that are being charged for, but none of that is worth publicly chastising or shaming someone over in my opinion. The truly serious stuff that he is being accused of is the targeted harassment and abuse coming from sock puppet accounts, things like Horracegate, trying to ruin people's careers, damage their mental health, attack their personal and professional relationships. Those to me are the serious alleged crimes here and though I understand people wanting to comment on Kieren's professional output, I have no need or urge to join in with that, and I might suggest that if people feel there is a potential criminal case here, that correcting spelling and such is just obfuscating the more serious matters at hand.

 

I really only posted to this topic in the first place for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was just posting to try to give some context, attempting to defend my IRL friends (several of whom are now thankfully regularly posting here and can stand up for themselves), including but not limited to Sarah, Hannah, Kim and Larry, all of whom I can comfortably say are some of the most lovely and genuine friends I've had. I just want things to go back to the state where everyone can be peaceful, happy, calm, and just return to having fun sharing memories about old games we all love. I cannot speak more highly of the integrity of any of those guys, I adore them all and they have all shown me great kindness over the years. I'm glad to see Kim posting in here to clear up the screenshot issue, and can 100% vouch for her as kind, selfless and honest to a fault.

 

Whilst I genuinely didn't plan on posting again, I was alerted to this, where Kieren named me directly:

Working in the entertainment industry as I do, its usually best not to comment on any controversies publicly, and my first instinct in all this was to just stay quiet and defend my friends offline and out of the public eye. But the second, and frankly deciding reason that I chose, against my instincts, to post publicly, was because I knew that Kieren would be likely to see, as it seems he is monitoring this stuff very closely. So, if I may just reply personally to him here:

 

Kieren. Thank you for your kind words. I genuinely really do appreciate them and am glad that you feel that way about me. I always try and be kind, fair, understanding and honest. I have never wanted anything more in this little retro world than to make friends and chat about mutual interests with nice people. You know some of the issues and worries I have had, and I expect you can understand why all this online drama over various things for over a year now has made it hard for me to feel safe or inclined to come back and post. I will do eventually I'm sure, I have recorded many videos and collaborated with many wonderful people on them, so I can't let those go unpublished. It just doesn't feel like the right time quite yet. In my reply to your 15 page statement, I hope you noticed that I fully gave you the benefit of the doubt in suggesting that if you have evidence that can prove your innocence of charges lobbied at you, you should make it very open and clear your name. I never once threw you under the bus or said I fully believed it, just that it looked pretty bad, which you must admit that it does. You know where my closest friendship and loyalty lies, and you know where you overstepped the mark in your statement with a misleading half truth that seemed spiteful in intent, and why I as a loyal friend would be upset and feel duty bound to step in. I hope you don't blame me for this or feel that I have been disloyal to you, if you truly consider me a friend. As I clearly stated several times, I did consider you a friend and enjoyed our chats both online and in person. I have continually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. And even if you are guilty of everything you are accused of (which, if you cannot prove it other than vaguely telling people to search twitter, sadly, seems likely), like others here who are my good friends, I will once again reiterate that I wish you no ill will, and urge you to apologise, take some time offline and concentrate on your family, and get some counselling or support to work through why or how it ever got to this point. Stewing and plotting and obsessively monitoring all this is not healthy and will just lead to more troubles. I stated before that even despite all this and how bad it looks, if I bumped into you I'd still buy you a pint and have a chat. Whether you are guilty or not guilty either way I want you to get better and come through this, for the sake of your kids. I just want all the negativity and toxicity to end. Again, thank you for your kind words about me, and I'm sorry if my messages upset you, that was never the intention, hopefully its always been clear that I'm coming from the position of worrying about everybody, and wanting to help everyone, including you. Whoever is responsible for all this (and if you can prove its not you as you said, then do yourself a favour and prove it, otherwise literally no-one will believe you)... this needs to stop.

 

To anyone reading the above who is triggered or upset by my kind, forgiving or understanding tone, please try and resist the urge to correct or chastise me and understand its just how I am, I can't bring myself to hate anyone no matter what they do. I'm the kind of person who when I am robbed I feel sorry for the robber as something in their life must be really bad to have gotten them to that point and they probably need the money more than I do. I have made it clear that from what I have seen and read, it looks like Kieren is guilty of some or all of the accusations, I know for a fact that certain things he has publicly said in his own name were both untrue, and extremely hurtful and damaging to one of my best friends, seemingly designed to be so, and for this I am very upset, and I have told him in no uncertain terms to stop, and get help. I think that's as fair as I can be. We all deal with situations in our own ways, and as both a mental health advocate and also someone who has dealt with several strong issues of his own, and has coached many family and friends through a variety of similar conditions and issues, its my instinct to feel sad and want to help, rather than to feel angry and want to chastise. I apologise if anyone feels that my attitude in anyway lessens their own personal pain, anger, or experience of this situation, that is not my intention, I respect your experience and reaction to this situation, please do the same to mine. Thank you in advance.

This is the opening text to the opening post of this thread,regardless of what came about due to this thread, this was the reason it was created:

 

 

These are the couple of videos that Kieren Hawken is desperately trying to delete from the internet. It seems that RetroLaird can't handle the kind of review he dishes out to the rest of us, and is under some kind of delusion that he can play Whack-A-Mole with these videos forever.

 

 

Kieren wanted videos exposing the plain and simple fact his own work is guilty of all the issues he's laid at the feet of so many others out there producing videos, games, books, magazines etc, pulled before word got out.

 

Just as he wanted reviews on Amazon.co.uk pulled.

 

 

He ran around accusing others of Copyright theft, he reported others for going beyond fair use of imagery 

 

 

He was active on socia lmedia media telling people not to work with Chris and others, not to back their crowdfunding projects.

 

 

The entire Atari Visual History thread was about ensuring people got the best quality Atari books and the focus was on imagery, punctuation, grammar etc.

 

 

Kieren has not being singled out.

 

I can appreciate people wanting his writing discussed in a seperate thread and the reasons why, but you cannot have Greyfox with one book, put under the microscope and give Kieren with over 40,  a free pass.

 

 

Nor can what the videos expose,nor the reason this thread was created be forgotten. 

 

 

I seem to remember Chris Wilkins only made his statement as people thought he was behind the A-Z video as it was wrongly seen as a retaliation for Kieren's review of Fusion Magazine. 

 

That video set events in motion, but it was created purely to expose Kieren's double standards when it came to writing.

 

That was the focus of it.

 

 

And remember what Octav1us said.

 

 

She only used Kieren in her original Jaguar video as she had been warned if she didn't,  he'd be all over the video in the comments section pointing out what she got wrong.

 

 

Kieren has strutted around like the Atari cock of the yard,correcting others for years. 

 

 

He's earnt this exposure, all of it.

Edited by Lost Dragon

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7 hours ago, Mr.T said:

The bitchute video appears to be broken too though, at least for me. No-one can mirror if we can’t grab it, that’s the issue - I can’t find any working link of that video.

I had no idea the Bitchute video was also not viewable by those in the UK. Unfortunately, I am not at all in a position to upload the video again, as I don't have access to the original video file, and besides, I'm still in the process of traveling. Could someone non-UK-based be able to upload a mirror? Like I said, the video is essentially public domain, so feel free to rip it off YouTube and upload it again as much as you want. Having it on Dailymotion seems to be a good idea as well.

 

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I think the ironic part of all this is that Keiren could have did what the politicians do when caught with their pants down - they come out in front of the camera's, make a grovelling apology, say "look, Ive been stupid, I've apologised, now lets all move on" without meaning a single word of it, and that's it.

 

He could have done that, not meaning a word of it, and it would have left a lot of people with, well, no where to go, as he could rightly say he's just realised he was a fud and subsequently apologised, but instead, he battoned down the hatches and started up his very own Steve Jobs reality distortion field.

 

As mentioned in several posts, the picking apart of his reviews, in isolation, looks childish and petty.   However, in the context of how he has many many times venomously ripped apart other publications for inaccuracies, typo's, poor grammar etc, my personal opinion is that it is right to highlight his sheer hypocrisy.

 

To Pixels Ltd, fair play to you.  My father, bless his soul, has always insisted that there is good in everyone, although with some its admittedly harder to find, but Ive came across a few people over the years to make me strongly disagree with that.

 

My personal opinion is that our friend is either genuinely a sociopath ( https://www.health.com/condition/antisocial-personality-disorder/sociopath-traits ), or has multiple personality disorder.  Or both.

 

Edited by LostInThePast
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1 hour ago, Galahad said:

No-one likes a witch hunt, but at the same time, no-one likes someone that outright refuses to learn and get the message that their behaviour is not acceptable.

You're spot on. The trouble is that for Kieren to move past all this, and possibly even manage to salvage a small sliver of dignity, he'd have to accept that he's not the font of all knowledge, he's not the go-to person for all things retro, he's not "Mr Atari", and he's not a particularly talented writer. 

 

Unfortunately I can't imagine him doing any of that. 

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9 hours ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

I don't see it, this massive gulf. His own personal ego, his hubris fuels all he does. To dissect the 'work' is to hit him where it hurts, because he is so very proud of it all. He thinks he is this and people are bursting the balloon of self myth.

 

Someone reviews his book, he jumps all over that person. Is that not his causing trouble and strife?

 

When Chris Wilkins told him they were looking for a higher level writer and he goes bat-shit and creates new socks to back up his ripping the hell out of Chris or others on social media in groups he runs ? 

 

A lot of his fucked up behaviour is triggered by people's reactions to his 'work'. 

The Poppy account, it all boils down to him being jealous of more successful more creative people than him. This jealousy is fuelling his hate campaigns. Why do you think he hates Reboot so much ?

Doing things he could only dream of.


All of the above TOTALLY nails where this thread came from in the first place!

Kieren's flare-up wasn't caused by people calling him out on duplicity or manipulation.
He's been called out on his words and actions almost since day one. He is accustomed to that and has, for the most part become inured to insults.

He went off the rails due to Sauron's original YouTube review of his book.

It was the fact that someone had the temerity to take the magnificent Kieren Hawken to task over what he obviously perceives as sheer brilliance.

So to keep up pointing out his total failure as a writer is simply hitting him over and over again where it hurts the most.

He can deny being a liar, he can claim he was hacked or try to deflect with similar, albeit false accusations.
He can refute saying person A said X about person B, citing the above excuses when hard evidence is shown.

But he simply cannot deny the evidence of the printed word to be found in his shambolic publications.
He could try, but he would fail in that task as he has in every other he has attempted in his sorry, scurrilous life.
The endless mistakes will at some point be laid at the feet of anyone other than Kieren, but it is almost certain that he will have proof-read these himself, or more likely, not bothered at all because he is so sure of his genius to assume there would be errors is madness.


Therefore, calling him out on poor research, grammatical and spelling errors, copied, cribbed and cocked-up reviews, incorrect facts and generally sloppy writing is EXACTLY what we should continue doing.

To stop that would be to give him what he wants, some peace and quiet.
He should be hounded continually like the rat he is until he scurries off forever.

 

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1 hour ago, Sauron said:

I had no idea the Bitchute video was also not viewable by those in the UK. Unfortunately, I am not at all in a position to upload the video again, as I don't have access to the original video file, and besides, I'm still in the process of traveling. Could someone non-UK-based be able to upload a mirror? Like I said, the video is essentially public domain, so feel free to rip it off YouTube and upload it again as much as you want. Having it on Dailymotion seems to be a good idea as well.

 

I have upload a group of video and his "Statement" to archive.org @ https://archive.org/details/the-review-of-a-z-of-atari-st-games-volume-3-book-retrolaird-is-trying-to-delete

 

ps: if anyone want me to upload other things PM me

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To give a quick summary:

The only people he hasn't used for his own benefit are

1. Those he hasn't dumped on yet (the but he's done nothing wrong to me group)

2. those he hasn't met yet

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12 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

its the fact that he's a festering, fib-telling, manipulative, destructive, invasive, sack of shit that is the issue.

As I have said above, he will deny these accusations regardless of proof, be it audio, video or printed proof in tweets, texts or emails.
He is a liar.
Not a very good one, but a liar nonetheless.
Regardless of your labelling him pretty accurately, all of those accusations are academic. They are a given and always will be.

But the core of Kieren Hawken, the thing he feels defines him is his "encyclopedic knowledge" of almost any given topic and the amazingly creative way he expresses himself on the printed page.
This, as we know is also a crock, so to constantly point this out with facts that cannot be refuted at all, is like a thorn in his side. A constant nagging pain as fact after fact of his literary and research fuckups is shown to all and sundry.
I agree that there should be two collections put together somewhere in the fullness of time: The Lies of Kieren Hawken and "How NOT to write as shown by Kieren Hawken".
But for now people can come and dip into this smorgasbord of lies, shite and garbage that has all spewed from the one source, Mr Mole-Rat himself, Kieren Hawken.

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20 minutes ago, Landstalker said:

I agree that there should be two collections put together somewhere in the fullness of time: The Lies of Kieren Hawken and "How NOT to write as shown by Kieren Hawken".
But for now people can come and dip into this smorgasbord of lies, shite and garbage that has all spewed from the one source, Mr Mole-Rat himself, Kieren Hawken.

The problem is, they won't. 

 

They'll see all the spelling correction and endless her said/ she said,  assume it's all a load of pointless mumbling from people with too much time on their hands,  and fuck off out of the thread with no knowledge of what he is or does.

 

You seem to want to attack him personally and make him see irrefutable evidence of his incompetence. That won't work. It won't get past his perception filter, and in his mind you are just wrong. 

 

What most of the people he has attacked want is for everyone else to be warned and blacklist and exclude him, so he can't do that again. 

 

I couldn't care less if someone thinks postman fucking pat is a good game or not. And probably, neither would 99.99% of anyone reading this. 

 

I do care there's a manipulative, malignant sack of shit actively trying to hurt people for his own gain. 

 

And that is getting buried under mountains of meaningless corrective detective work. 

 

And as for the guy above coming to his defence... good friend.... blah blah blah...

 

Open your fucking eyes. You are being used and will now be his poster boy for "Not everyone thinks it's true"

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20 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

The problem is, they won't. 

 

They'll see all the spelling correction and endless her said/ she said,  assume it's all a load of pointless mumbling from people with too much time on their hands,  and fuck off out of the thread with no knowledge of what he is or does.

 

You seem to want to attack him personally and make him see irrefutable evidence of his incompetence. That won't work. It won't get past his perception filter, and in his mind you are just wrong. 

 

What most of the people he has attacked want is for everyone else to be warned and blacklist and exclude him, so he can't do that again. 

 

I couldn't care less if someone thinks postman fucking pat is a good game or not. And probably, neither would 99.99% of anyone reading this. 

 

I do care there's a manipulative, malignant sack of shit actively trying to hurt people for his own gain. 

 

And that is getting buried under mountains of meaningless corrective detective work. 

 

And as for the guy above coming to his defence... good friend.... blah blah blah...

 

Open your fucking eyes. You are being used and will now be his poster boy for "Not everyone thinks it's true"

Then please step forward with as much evidence, hitherto unseen that shows him as the manipulative liar we all know that he is.
Don't think for one second that we are simply proof reading his "books", this merely fills the time between discussing his other antics and collating the type of material you wish to see.
 

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"You are being used and will now be his poster boy for "Not everyone thinks it's true" "

 

I didn't want to say that, but the thought had occurred to me, and I give it about an hour before it is used as exhibit A in the defence, but, everyone I guess is entitled to their opinion - right or wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Landstalker said:

Then please step forward with as much evidence, hitherto unseen that shows him as the manipulative liar we all know that he is.
Don't think for one second that we are simply proof reading his "books", this merely fills the time between discussing his other antics and collating the type of material you wish to see.
 

Honestly, I don't "wish to see" material of this type.  There's enough here to bury him 50 times over.  However, now nobody can find it without searching - and I'd wager most people who didn't know his history and were directed here wouldn't be bothered to read 57 pages of "shit" to find the posts that do matter, call it "petty nonsense" looking at the nit picking spelling errors and just hire him anyway.

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Slightly off topic, but I see that this thread is now even mentioned on HotUKdeals (one of the largest shopping / bargain sites in the UK, with over 2 million registered members) !

To be fair, its not just him - Retro Gamer Magazine is also getting it in the neck too a few posts further down by the looks of it.

 

https://www.hotukdeals.com/comments/permalink/40440602

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

....'I'll put one foot in this camp and leave my other over there', 'want everyone to be happy, you're great Kieran, as are all my lovely friends' fuzzy nonsense...

To not fully accept that your ' lovely friend '...

...trying to eek out sympathy for him...

...I now await the inevitable you made me cry reply...

 

 

Sorry but I feel like this and some other replies completely missed my point. Perhaps I was too wordy and people skim read. I fear that will happen again, brevity is not my strength.

 

Nowhere did I say "You're great Kieren", nor did I stick up for him or try and claim he didn't deserve criticism. My "lovely friends" are Sarah, Hannah, Kim and Larry, not him. I was clear to state that I DID previously consider him a friend, but that I felt betrayed, and that my loyalties did not lie with him. My primary loyalty is with one individual who I won't name but I know for a fact that Kieren has greatly hurt, and that he did on purpose, in his own statements, in his own name. I could never defend that. I thought I made all of that clear previously. Ah well. 

 

I also stated multiple times that I believed most if not all of the accusations against him - unless he could prove otherwise, and pointed out that depite being offered many chances to do so, he never has, and therefore it didn't look good. I stated I was upset and angry at him. Truthfully, when I read his 15 page statement, I was fucking furious and knew damn well what damage he was doing, and that he had done it on purpose either out of spite or desperation. He knows that some of what he wrote was weasel worded half truths to make people jump to the wrong conclusions and make others look bad, when I know that he knows the full truth and how he misrepresented it. These are people he purported to be friends. That was beyond the pale, and he knows it. It was a dick move beyond all reason and I would happily tell him that to his face. 

 

But, if people want to misinterpret what I wrote, that's fine, I've re-read it and am personally happy that I said what I meant. Kieren left me a personal message, hoping I'd read it. I did, and I responded. I feel that I did so in a kind, compassionate way, whilst also very clearly not exonerating him or making any excuses for him whatsoever, and making it clear that I feel he needs to either clear his name, or apologise and stop the bullcrap and get the hell off the internet and concentrate on his family. His message to me was to try and appeal to my better nature, so I responded in kind, hoping that he will listen to my advice. Insulting him will make him dig his feet in deeper, and feel more angry and resentful, which will make this ten times worse. That should be a self evident truth and should not be a controversial thing to say. If he read and understood my message, and took it to heart. I think it could potentially help. If not, then I've tried my best, and its frankly his fault, and there is no more I can reasonably do.

 

I don't see how I can be any clearer than that. And if for some reason that upsets you all, then I'm sorry.

 

By pointing out that maybe we shouldn't be nitpicking over grammar or factual errors in his books, I wasn't "sticking up for my friend". Read it again and you will see that I was clearly offering advice of the best way to be able to pursue a clear legal case and not make the matter seem trivial or petty if law enforcement have to trawl through all this. I was trying to help you all, not criticise you. But when I typed it I understood some would get angry regardless. I brought that on myself I guess. 

 

Finally, for the record: You didn't make me cry ;) And I laughed when I read that, I'm far from a snowflake, and have pretty thick skin. I was just asking that people didn't willfully misinterpreted what I was saying, which it seems some people went ahead and did anyway, as is their right I guess. It is clear to everyone that knows me, and even those who don't but have read all my messages in this thread and elsewhere carefully, that my loyalties have never been with Kieren and are with the people I know personally very well who you allude to being driven to suicidal thoughts. My number one priority has always been to phone, text or visit them to make sure they are ok, not posting online to strangers.

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2 hours ago, PixelsLtd said:

My number one priority has always been to phone, text or visit them to make sure they are ok, not posting online to strangers.

This ^ is one thing I do agree with, as should be.

 

Although I am very much into my technology coding and gadgets; some of the stuff that comes with the internet leaves a bitter taste.

 

I am not on social media because quite frankly I don't like many people, but I respect anyone who is there for people in real life, as I said to Hannah about her support of Sarah.

 

I actually sent them both DMs. Nice DMs about KWH and how they should not feel bad and continue to be creative people but they both ignored them, who cares. My genuine empathy for other people just swept into the wind.

 

I now expect an avalanche of your friends posting and critiquing my response.

 

For your clarity, I read your whole post and I didn't skim, I took in every word and those were/are my interpretations of what you put, right or wrongly.

 

 

 

---------- the following has been heavily edited for obvious reasons -----------

 

'Larry' has no credibility considering the fallout from GamerGate and indeed, his own book featuring the boy Hawken's work. Sam DYER is guilty of the same crime, using his work and then trying to distance himself from

Kieren's behaviour (I will admit Sam did actually come here and say he was happy with KWH's contributions)

 

I'll say one thing for him, he is 100% right if and when he calls out Larry and Sam DYER out on their hypocrisy.

 

On one hand they want the benefits of his 'work' such that it is, and on the other hand, they want to disassociate themselves as far as possible without having to admit culpability.

 

 

Edited by Guest
- invalid comments + corrected attribution of comments

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This is exactly what our, ahem, friend wants - the start of in-fighting, arguing, and bickering.

I think all have had their say on the above few posts, yeah?

Possibly keep this thread on its original course ? (steps back and takes a deep breath, hoping no one says "just who the f#ck does this guy think he is, lol)

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2 hours ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

You still worked with Kieren on your book, years after all his nonsense and nasty behaviour. conveniently not acknowledging any of that for the financial possibilities that it brings you.

 

I like the look of your overpriced books, but I won't be buying any more, now that I know you personally ignored all his fucked up activities for years and in implication endorsed his behaviour.

 

I am sure your dedication of thanks to him in your new book will make an interesting read, going forward.

Dude I have NO idea what you are talking about, I have not written any book and have not involved Kieren in any projects whatsoever. I'm now 100% sure you have me confused with someone else. I have made YouTube videos and documentaries with many YouTubers, but Kieren is not one of them. We just entered each other's periphery through my friendship with Sarah, Larry, and Dan (Slopes) who he had worked with before, so we chatted online, and in person.

 

Have you got me confused thinking I am Sam Dyer of Bitmap books? I very much am not. I'm in the film industry. I work on Star Wars and Superhero movies lol. I completely agree that Sam Dyer's refusal to be transparent about what input Keiren had on his Atari book is shady looking to say the least, though I appreciate there may be NDAs, I understand why you might have animosity towards him. Once again, that is NOT ME. Sam is a common name ya know ;) The whole "Sam is a hypocrite" thing you quoted was not about me. He only mentioned me in his longer message to Sarah because he knew we speak offline.

 

[edit] As for GamerGate I did not follow that nor do I know anything about it. I do know Larry well both online and off and he has been a very very kind and loyal friend to me and countless others I've spoken to irl at multiple conventions and events. As he is quite a private person I'll respect that and refrain from saying any more. His book was written over the process of 3 years so having Kieren involved with it is bad timing. He only worked on a handful of specifically Atari based videos for Larry and I can't imagine after all this he would ever invite that kind of controversy into his professional life. He loves many of the people hurt by all this just as much as I do, and is a loyal and trusted friend to them.

Edited by PixelsLtd
added clarification about "gamergate" allusion

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1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

I have not written any book and have not involved Kieren in any projects whatsoever.

Thank goodness for that! You've dodged a bullet. Not only would he exaggerate his own input in it, he would probably have had a go at you because you had not given him full credit for doing 'most of it'.

1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

I'm now 100% sure you have me confused with someone else. I have made YouTube videos and documentaries with many YouTubers, but Kieren is not one of them. We just entered each other's periphery through my friendship with Sarah, Larry, and Dan (Slopes) who he had worked with before, so we chatted online, and in person.

I see. Have you worked on the technical side or the presentation side? That makes sense. A lot of these people have some very good animated things and such.

1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

Have you got me confused thinking I am Sam Dyer of Bitmap books?

Yeah, again I have confused one of the players in all this with another. I acknowledge and own that mistake and am sorry for my mistake. I hope you can accept my apology but I was sure you/he got mentioned and I confused you.

1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

I'm in the film industry. I work on Star Wars and Superhero movies lol.

Glad you can laugh about it ! I've had a lot of 'doh' moments in the last 3+ weeks. I got Covid 19 on the 23rd of March and having some

health issues I have really been going through it. Not an excuses but one of the symptoms that is most prominent is confusion and fuzzy mental cognitive functioning.

1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

I completely agree that Sam Dyer's refusal to be transparent about what input Keiren had on his Atari book is shady looking to say the least, though I appreciate there may be NDAs, I understand why you might have animosity towards him. Once again, that is NOT ME.

No, It is NOT you. I appreciate you need to clarify, and I would like to reinforce the correction. My comments were about Sam Dyer of

Bitmap Books.

1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

Sam is a common name ya know ;) The whole "Sam is a hypocrite" thing you quoted was not about me. He only mentioned me in his longer message to Sarah because he knew we speak offline.

No, It was about Sam Dyer, his Bitmap Books project which featured Kieren as a contributor.

Ah I see. Maybe this is how I may have got confused ?

1 hour ago, PixelsLtd said:

[edit] As for GamerGate I did not follow that nor do I know anything about it. I do know Larry well both online and off and he has been a very very kind and loyal friend to me and countless others I've spoken to irl at multiple conventions and events. As he is quite a private person I'll respect that and refrain from saying any more. His book was written over the process of 3 years so having Kieren involved with it is bad timing. He only worked on a handful of specifically Atari based videos for Larry and I can't imagine after all this he would ever invite that kind of controversy into his professional life. He loves many of the people hurt by all this just as much as I do, and is a loyal and trusted friend to them.

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of GamerGate. I was very much on one side of it, he seems to have been on the other.

 

The comments he has made and his reluctance to remove himself from one website in particular in the fallout and subsequent revelations has been key to my opinion, expressed here of him.

 

I have not met him in real life and was initially very impressed by the professionalism of his channel, it's brilliantly depicted cartoons, his style of presentation and his impressive weight-loss. 

 

However when I found out about that ^^, and Kieren working with him on his channel, and then the book which I probably would have been happy to have paid good money for, it tarnished him in my eyes at least.

 

Can I just point one thing out, you say that Larry is a deeply private person, but he runs his own highly successful youtube channel. Those two things do not tally in my eyes. If you are essentially a public figure how can you just sit quietly and not come out and explain how much of a book you have produced had to do with a universally discredited 'scener'. 

 

The problem is, when you stand on a public platform and express your views to people you will be expected to put your money where your mouth is and explain yourself when your actions have been called into question.

Larry might be a lovely bloke, I don't know. But I think staying quiet about all this is doing him no favours.

 

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Thank you for clarifying the above, I accept the apologies and corrections, I hold no grudges. Easy mistake to make.

 

Now is not the time to get into my CV but yes I've done both 2d and 3d animation and compositing work on several YouTubers channels who are much bigger than my own. I'm also a member of RetroUnlim and MoRG and have done joint projects, live streams, etc with many of their members (which includes Larry, Kim, Slopes, Top Hat etc), and was an Exec on Digitiser the Show and am friends with many of that crew. Many of all of those guys are working on an independent movie I'm currently producing, and a documentary series on Sonic. The retro community is 99.9% lovely people. I was very sad when all the negative stuff, trolls, sock puppets etc started zapping the fun out of it and making everyone anxious to come online or post new content.

 

Larry IS a lovely bloke, and exceptionally private. Having an outgoing public persona as a presenter does not mean that you are comfortable letting people into all aspects of your life. Larry has been on television talking about games since the mid 1990s. His public persona has been carefully developed since then and he does an excellent job. There is a reason that he is so well loved within his fanbase. As for Keirens work on the book, he has not tried to hide it and credits him appropriately. As I said, I can't imagine they will be working together again in future projects, though I won't speak for either of them, that is the distinct impression that has been given online.

 

From what I've seen he has made no public statement on all this, other than the very telling "He only worked on 4 of my videos!" comment. Those were all a long time ago and all Atari related (unless you count the Vega+ video which was also independently posted, and on Slopes channel I believe). I would not want to put words into his mouth but I'm 100% sure that the involvement in his book would have been minimal, Atari only stuff and not carried out recently. As for the "refusal to remove himself from a website" I assume you mean Channel Awesome, and again, he publicly talked about that, and simply stated he saw the humour in being the "last man standing" there while it went down in flames. His social media feed made it VERY clear he did not agree with the negative stuff those guys did, and he made and posted many memes criticising the management there and basically begging to be fired. It was rather amusing. If him remaining on the site gave you the opinion that he endorsed their failings, you got the wrong end of the stick, probably because as you stated, you don't really do social media, so wouldn't have seeing him posting about it.

 

That is the last I will be saying about this though as I already feel that I am overstepping a boundary by saying all this. I am not the kind to gossip about people, especially not those who have been such good friends to me and who I wish every success. The book is excellent, by the way ;)

Edited by PixelsLtd
clarity and grammar

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On 4/2/2020 at 9:12 AM, Lost Dragon said:

There's another prime example,  Kierens A to Z Atari 7800 Guide :

 

 

Quarterback Challenge (Touchdown Football) 

 

 

Kieren gives it 6/10, saying it's a shame the programmer didn't decide to improve the game further..

 

 

No, it's a shame you didn't get off your backside as a writer of paid-for work and look into the game :@ 

 

 

Atarius Maximus explained back in June 2014 that this was just a simplistic game he wrote whilst learning 7800 Basic and his new job left him very little spare time, let alone time to improve on pet projects.

 

 

A simple Goggle search threw that thread up.

 

You either just dusted off old RVG etc reviews sat on your PC since before this thread or you didn't put the work in on the review.

 

 

Like Vince, i was content to lurk and read the comments from the new voices joining the thread here, but what's publically and privately come to light has drawn me back out.

 

You've plenty to say about the posts and work of others Kieren, so it's only fair yours is looked into.

 

 

Anyone thinking our gripes over his books lie with basic grammar, punctuation and spelling mistakes, is very much mistaken.

 

It's simply galling to see Retro Girl 5 star these guides and praise the bloody research,  when next to none has been done. 

 

You talk creative freedom in your writing and how you were shackled by RetroGamer Magazine, hence you made the decision to quit, well this is 100% your work Kieren, you honestly think it meets the criteria and standards the likes of Chris Wilkins require?. 

 

 

Ha.  I had to laugh a little bit.  I take pride in the games I have put on the forums, but at the same time I don't much care about "bad" reviews and this game was indeed just a learning experience.  Dungeon Stalker was the 7800 game I spent a ridiculous amount of time on.  Well, Legend of Silverpeak as well but I never finished it.  I have fun and if someone enjoys it, all the better.  I've never been to that site and not planning on taking a look now.

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Yawn. Gonna stop following this thread now, you've given Kizza everything he wants.

 

Pages and pages about his bad books... his bad books are not the issue.  His behaviour is.

 

Carry on feeding the troll.  This thread is now so diluted its become irrelevant and useless to show people.

 

And please, stop PMng me about this.  If you think his spelling is as bad as trying to get someone to kill themselves, you need help too.

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To sum up:

who the hell is this thread now targeted at? Who is the audience?

 

Is it Kieran? Who obviously doesn’t care about the accuracy of his books, writing style or content? This has been detailed more than enough and really only of interest to those that obsess about specific platforms. He doesn’t care about it. If he did care he would have bothered trying to correct the errors in the first place. He just shitguns assertions out, always aiming for the non-obsessed to not call him out. That’s his ego wank - a fawning group of fans.

 

Or is the audience those on the outskirts of retro gaming, of no specific platform bent, just interested in seeing what a complete Cnut Kieren is. They don’t give a damn about historical facts on consoles they don’t own and never will. They are the majority and not being served at the moment.

 

it’s the 360 vs the Wii in microcosm - hardcore vs casual. At the moment casual viewers here will see nothing to interest them so just skip out. 

 

I was pm’d much earlier to say I was giving too much attention to the Twitter accounts. I agreed to then stop as I realised it was adding nothing but noise to the thread, giving a window to the socks who in turn had nothing really relevant to say - just aiming to offend and get a reaction.

 

Just think of the real audience of this thread, it should be targeting those who are likely to encounter him in the future, not the current crop.

 

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