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The review of A-Z of Atari ST Games Volume 3 book RetroLaird is trying to delete!

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1 hour ago, Defunkt said:

Completely agree. Myself and a couple of others have already said the useful information should be put on a dedicated set of web pages. This thread has turned into a "Vince apologies" thread.  

Thanks a lot ! Play into the boys hands why don't you. Cue Kizza preparing a thank you note for a bouquet of flowers.

 

A handful of you are achieving what Kizza has been trying to do for months. Congratulations.

 

The mods will decide this thread has run it's course and lock it down. 

Edited by ∞ Vince ∞
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2 hours ago, Defunkt said:

Completely agree. Myself and a couple of others have already said the useful information should be put on a dedicated set of web pages. This thread has turned into a "Vince apologies" thread. The people who are picking the bones out of his books for mistakes might think they are being helpful but they most certainly are not. When you go down that road it looks like school playtime to outsiders like myself. 

Somebody needs to get a handle on this because about 90% of this thread is now complete rubbish, off-topic and/or childish. 

 

Anything productive has been diluted to water by a few people who can't seem to stop typing their unhelpful nonsense. 

 

This thread needs a huge purge of unhelpful posts or a dedicated site put up where the crux of this matter can be archived. I most certainly wont mind if you have to remove this post if it helps in cleaning things up. 

I do have website, but I am not willing to have this on it, there are free wiki like websites we could use.

I am willing to do a curated PDF file, but I don't know how to lay it out

 

We could setup a Google Doc Document?

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4 hours ago, Defunkt said:

This thread needs a huge purge of unhelpful posts or a dedicated site put up where the crux of this matter can be archived. I most certainly wont mind if you have to remove this post if it helps in cleaning things up. 

I don't think purging all of the posts is necessary, as this thread is just that, a thread in which discussion has been held. Yes, there are way too many posts that are less than helpful. This is why there's an index in the first post in this thread. Having said that, we definitely do need a website that hosts all of the helpful information regarding Kieren, something that lays out the information succinctly and without fluff, which gives users a very clear look at his various misdeeds. This thread in itself was never going to serve that purpose, but it's been a great repository for all of the information given by those who have come forward about their dealings with him. As such, it works fine as a repository for raw data - we just now need to lay out all of that data in a way that is easy for those who aren't familiar with him to see how he operates.

 

3 hours ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

The mods will decide this thread has run it's course and lock it down. 

I don't see the purpose of locking this thread. However, it could do with some cleaning up.

 

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Whoops, wrong thread (I think a first for me 😳) PLEASE DELETE and carry on. 

Edited by OldSchoolRetroGamer
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I posted a few pages back with some scatterbrained thoughts about how the information accumulated here should be made useful in the long term. I've been pondering it since, have let the thoughts digest a bit, and here's what I have to say. But first:

 

I've always had a fascination with scammers and fraudsters, I've been reading up on them for a good 15+ years now. A few things are common among all of them: these people will never change, it's all they know. You might throw them in prison for 20 years, you might publicly expose them to the entire world, but they will eventually be back to doing what they do.

A couple of my go-to examples:

  • Peter Popoff - Televangelist who was publicly exposed in the 80s to the entire world. He was smart enough to stay out of the public eye for a bit, but every decade or so he comes back with something new. His current thing, which I can't believe people fall for, is Miracle Debt-Cancellation Water. You drink this water and one day wake up to find all this extra money in your bank account, just enough to pay your debts. Praise Jesus!
  • Kevin Trudeau - Like Popoff, he made a lot of money. Unlike Popoff, he wasn't smart enough to disappear between fuck-ups. He got into legal trouble every year or two and is now in prison.

These guys are at the top of the fraudster ladder. At the bottom of that ladder are the Kieren Hawkens of the world. But regardless of success or cunning, the thing they all have in common is they're going to keep doing what they do until they're in the grave. 

 

When everyone started coming together and sharing their experiences here, it was like an eruption after years of rumblings below the surface. It's always hard to imagine at the time but these things always eventually settle down and life moves on. So what purpose has this thread had, and what purpose would we like it to continue having? In my opinion, 3 things:

 

1.) Long term - Warn Would-Be Employers

As I said before, someone needs to write a clear, concise summary for those outside of the scene - future employers, book publishers, event organizers, etc. They need to know that he's going to provide shoddy work and damage their brand's credibility, but more importantly he'll leave them with a big mess to clean up afterwards.

Many of these Retro-themed publications and events are a labor of love, they aren't the most profitable thing in the world. They're the result of passion and Kieren will kill their passion... then as they're left to clean up the mess, trying to undo the damage to their brand, Kieren will be using your brand to add credibility to his name a la Retro Gamer.

 

2.) As an archive of the nitty gritty details

For people that are connected to this scene enough to want to read every single page of this thread, they can use this as education as to the scope of the damage he's caused. A lot of people who normally keep quiet about things have come out of the shadows to tell their stories now.

 

3.) As a sort of group therapy, showing support for each other

These hobbies are supposed to be fun, a positive experience. People aren't here for the drama, but it's a testament to their passion for retrogaming that they've stuck around in spite of it. Tragedies are... well, tragic, but they can bring communities together. As everyone has come together here to share stories with each other, it has made the community tighter - and therefore, further blocking Kieren out of it.

 

 

By now it appears the most damning evidence has already been presented, yet the replies still have enough momentum for the pages to keep piling on. Some have suggested people refrain from commenting on particular things or that separate threads should be made. This would require mass cooperation which us humans aren't very good at. For for what I proposed, there just has to be a few people - or even one person - to achieve the long term benefits of #1. Otherwise this thread can continue to play out as it would.

 

I think everybody here wants the same things to result from this thread, there's just some disagreement on how to achieve it. Those are my 2 cents.

Edited by Buffalo Biff Burgertime
proofreading/editing
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2 hours ago, Sauron said:

I don't think purging all of the posts is necessary, as this thread is just that, a thread in which discussion has been held. Yes, there are way too many posts that are less than helpful. This is why there's an index in the first post in this thread. Having said that, we definitely do need a website that hosts all of the helpful information regarding Kieren, something that lays out the information succinctly and without fluff, which gives users a very clear look at his various misdeeds. This thread in itself was never going to serve that purpose, but it's been a great repository for all of the information given by those who have come forward about their dealings with him. As such, it works fine as a repository for raw data - we just now need to lay out all of that data in a way that is easy for those who aren't familiar with him to see how he operates.

 

I don't see the purpose of locking this thread. However, it could do with some cleaning up.

 

I typed what I just posted before reading this comment, but I agree - and fortunate timing for me to write that reply!

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13 minutes ago, Buffalo Biff Burgertime said:

I typed what I just posted before reading this comment, but I agree - and fortunate timing for me to write that reply!

Heh yup, we're definitely in agreement. It's time to look at this thread more as a raw data dump. We just need to parse the data, organise it, and present it to others in a way that makes the whole history clear to everyone who reads it. The only problem is that this is going to take a lot of work, something far more than what one person would be able to handle doing in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps it's time to start organising a group of volunteers for this purpose?

 

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Ask your friend to come forward and own up to being a manipulative, fraudulent hack.
There's your answer

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Ego clamouring for attention because there’s been 24 hours silence here for the first time in over 2 months, dickhead has just gone and done what he does best to satisfy his narcissistic supply and attempted to goad people because, well, negative attention is still attention. Just as he said in his fawning and slimy e-mail to Sarah, he “makes up and says anything just to try and get people to like him” - about the only truth he’s ever spoken, and is his complete fool’s game because it has the opposite effect..... his bullshit is the reason everyone hates him.

 

For you ‘supposed’ newcomers who’ve just found this thread (apparently) and aren’t actually brand new created sockpuppets of the prick. Take note of how in the smarmy arsehole in this screenshot today, attempts to create a narrative that hundreds of people with over 15 years of evidence are “making all this up and going out of their way to victimise me because I’m so awesome”, by trying to suggest that taking 2 posts of postulating out of nearly 1500 anecdotal and factual evidence dropping for over 2 months, somehow proves (in his psychotic mental gymnastics) that he is not the problem - everyone else is.

 

What a sick, bitter and twisted lunatic. Without serious medication and years of proper medical mental conditioning, people like him eventually cross the line and become a physical danger to themselves and those few left close to them. It starts by harming animals and is never long before they lose grip on reality and start turning on people with complete lack of empathy to stop them.

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He’s fallen largely silent now which is what people wanted. It won’t last but right now his avenues of recourse have dried up, and all he has left to do is to try and provoke the less restrained into spewing forth hatred and to try and use this to his cause, as he is proving already. It’s probably best everyone drops a bit silent and just archives everything now so it can’t be taken down. If he’s stupid enough to respond, plagiarise, bullshit or lash out now, he’s just proving his offensive position and can just be shot down at every turn. He’s got no hope of weasling his way back into anything of substance now. Let him have his poor quality vanity press books and his zero effort YouTube channel that’s no longer using poached material shilled up to fuck by paid views and subscriptions; they’re of no consequence to real gamers and scene participants. If he wants in on anything that most people of consequence will get to see, they’ll be able to advise against it to the relevant person by referencing the key points here. No-one of any substance will touch him anymore, not even with a shitty stick. If they do then they can be pre-advised, and if ignored then rightfully chastised - if it’s business related and their venture suffers because people reject his involvement, they will know why and can’t expect sympathy. If he pipes up again, anyone who has come forward or witnessed the last 6 months of this unfolding can call him out, reference this thread, and he’s back at square one every time. Predictable isn’t even the word to describe how obvious his response will be, as his narcissism can’t allow his version of reality to be warped.

 

Collectively all now turn your backs, don’t acknowledge him directly and simply post here any obvious butthurt attempts he makes or complete evidence rebuttals as I have done if he makes any more spurious accusations, whilst those capable compile the known evidence into one place. He will go insane in his crumbling fortress of solitude without any attention and any and only referencing done in evidence dumps, which he never addresses because his ego can’t acknowledge they even exist, let alone try to refute or explain. He will appear to do nothing but be shouting at the sky, not allowed to share in this hobby on any social level, and his creeping attempts to profit by treading on anyone who gives him opportunity through deceit won’t be tolerated as they will be advised the minute his involvement is discovered.

 

Hundreds of us have opened the door, now it’s time to let the evidence kick his arse out of it and the ostracism to now slam it in his fucking face and bolt the door. He will never go away, but handle it right and he will never be let back in.

Edited by Mr.T
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Got to agree - he thrives on ego and taking the oxygen of his perceived relevance away is the endgame.

 

He's never going to have a road to Damascus epiphany so don't think it will happen.

 

He'll continue to self promote, continue to claim false authority and continue to try and make people's lives worse.

 

Someone once told me the problem with lies is that you have to remember so many of them. With truth you only have to remember the one. The truth here is people now know what he's like and for FUTURE work strands he's screwed.

 

I leave you with an example of when he was claiming to be epyx. Would anyone believe a thing like this again?

 

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If you have been subject to unfair censorship nay denial of your freedom of speech as I have in your attempt to review one of Kieren's books, I advise you to use this [email protected] email to appeal, as I have.

 

I would also ask that ANYONE (you don't need to have got the books yourself) who feels it is unfair that the RetroGirl and dpaint sockpuppet accounts (Kizza and Shaun McClure ex game artist/author and his good friend and 15 page supporter) have been unfairly reviewing each others books and giving them 5 stars, also take a few moments to email.

 

 

 

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Update: Appeal was successful and my review is live. 👍

 

Don't forget that you can report Kieren's sock puppet Twitter accounts by sending an email to [email protected]

 

 

  • Send just one email. I have been told that if you send more the automated system will reduce your priority. This is to deter trouble makers.
  • Keep it short and to the point. 
  • Be patient. If you get a reply, take a day and then reply. Again do not send any additional email until you receive a reply.
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21 minutes ago, ∞ Vince ∞ said:

Update: Appeal was successful and my review is live. 👍

 

Don't forget that you can report Kieren's sock puppet Twitter accounts by sending an email to [email protected]

 

 

  • Send just one email. I have been told that if you send more the automated system will reduce your priority. This is to deter trouble makers.
  • Keep it short and to the point. 
  • Be patient. If you get a reply, take a day and then reply. Again do not send any additional email until you receive a reply.

That's good, in my opinion one of Twitters admin team really need to be watching the Poppy zx sinclair account. The automated response system probably won't pick up on the Poppy ones targeted abuse, hopefully if the situation is explained to a human and show them the accounts you suspect it's targeting they may finally put a stop to it.

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34 minutes ago, Grassomaniac said:

That's good, in my opinion one of Twitters admin team really need to be watching the Poppy zx sinclair account. The automated response system probably won't pick up on the Poppy ones targeted abuse, hopefully if the situation is explained to a human and show them the accounts you suspect it's targeting they may finally put a stop to it.

That’s a very good idea - it’s normally easy to tell who they are targeting with comparable tweets as evidence.

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While people obviously have infinitely better things to do with their time during lock-down, the mole rat in his many forms keeps tabs on his detractors.

 

It's very informative watching him talk via his various personae. He truly is completely friendless.

There will be those delusional enough to show him some support, but when you see who they are it's really no surprise. Like attracts like.

 

Yes, this thread feeds his vanity, any publicity is good publicity in his strange and solitary world.

But part of it still rankles, otherwise he would be the bigger man (As if that is ever possible, misshapen orange homunculous that he is.) and walk away, but that will never happen. He cannot bear thinking that people are saying things about him and not know what those things are.
So it's a double-edged sword really. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Perhaps there will come a day when people actually cease to write things about the man-shaped turd that is Kieren Hawken, but one thing is for certain. They'll never stop hating him.

 

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Available in a variety of sizes. 
Selling quite well already.

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Edited by Landstalker
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It’s just a 15-year game of this, and everyone is tired of it. The grave has been dug and there’s no denying things or weasling out of it anymore. There is no coming back, and you can take greater satisfaction letting him fester away, screaming at thin air for desperate attention, permabanning everyone in life who challenges him and eventually alienating the few unfortunate souls tied to him through chagrin compulsion and making that island of evil shrink further until he sinks away. Deny him the negative attention he craves and don’t feed the troll anymore. He will cross the line into insanity now as he becomes a virtual leper, untouchable by anyone who values their health.

 

The fact he still thinks the world can constantly revolve around him when there’s a global crisis on just screams out how much of a self-important prick he really is, and any time he is referenced now his legacy will be “oh, the pathological liar who was only interested in self-preservation whilst thousands were dying daily of an uncontrollable virus?”. Just add it to the pile of life non-achievements and one more thing he will be forgotten for until someone brings it up as an anecdote of the shittiest person who they ever had the misfortune to encounter. There’s dogs that have spewed up more substantive and productive pieces of biological matter. If someone wants their existence to be remembered for being one of the worst things ever shat out of someone’s fanny flaps, then let him do it. As far as I’m concerned, he’s dead to the hobby, and good riddance.

 

My mantra going forward is to look on the bright side:

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