Would you buy a boxed and cart version of a free game?

[ilmenit]

We are working on a new game and would like to keep it free with digitally shared ATR file (even making it open-source for easier modding).

Would you like to buy a boxed version of a game on cartridge with printed manual and some gadgets, if it's good, but you already have access to the full free digital version?

For comparison lets say that the game is of similar quality to "His Dark Majesty" - would you pay for this game when "boxed" but ATR is available?

[Rybags]

The irony of post millenial Atari releases is that the overwhelming majority of the good stuff is free and in some cases the paid stuff is hardly justified to be so.

 

Cartridge for me would be the preferred media since it's easy enough to just produce a floppy yourself (though same can apply to a cart).

 

But with reference again to quality I'm talking stuff of the calibre of Marbled, RGB, Yoomp, Ridiculous Reality, Scramble, Bosconian and Time Pilot.

[AtariLeaf]

Of course. If I really like a game I'd want a copy, not only to have the physical cart to play and display but to support the author. Having said that I have to really like the game since the cost of the premium homebrews are in the $50 -$60 range plus shipping and conversion from US to Canadian funds.

 

Having said that the ones I do choose to buy have been no brainer, easy decisions like Galagon, Draconian, Mappy or Super Circus Atariage

[Mclaneinc]

I'd say an early demo might give you a better answer to the question but if its a good game then there's definitely a dedicated core of people here...Just remember shipping and import duty are a sore point for UK buyers

 

Its not so much the duty but the infamous "handling charge" that can kill...

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mclaneinc

[McKong]

Some people might prefer a loose cartridge. I sold most of my boxed games to make space

[+davidcalgary29]

I love packaging and feelies, so I’ll be all in for any commercial A8 release. I actually do look at artwork and packaging more than just after the initial unboxing, as I like to look for the details. The creativity is wonderful and just shows how much effort teams are putting into their projects. The last few games I bought for the A8 in the ‘90s came in plastic bags with photocopied instructions — or worse, on the BACKSIDE of those horrid A8/C64 flippies, so these are great. 

I’d also add that packaging adds another dimension of how authors perceive their work. That 2600 box styling for “Rain of Terror” defied my expectations but certainly put me in the right mindset for playing the game.

[+Philsan]

If you check the first post of the thread dedicated to homebrew games packages you'll see Dimo's Quest, Bomb Jake, Yoomp! and Hobgoblin packages.

They were games free to download but they sold well.
If a game is good, have a nice package and doesn't cost too much, collectors buy it even if it is free (I do it).
Obviously a good game not free to download would sell more.
There are not many commercial only games in the A8 world.
If I'd sell a game, I would use cart that allow saves (like Bomb Jake, Dungeon Hunt II, Pac-Man 2012, Space Harrier): fast loadings and high scores/save states.

[Poison]

no problem I will buy Rick Dangerous

[adam242]

I would prefer a cartridge, but only if it is produced in a shell that is compatible with the 800 and 1200XL. Otherwise floppy is fine.

[twh/f2]

I personally would always prefer ATR/disk (SDrive, SIO2SD) and/or harddisk compatiblity (SIDE2) over any cartridge solution. Actually I find it quite anoying to physically turn off/on my Atari to switch to a single other game while I have a mass storage solution with a DOS and thousands of games and applications on it.

 

The Atari 8bit is a computer not a video game console. So I don't find much appeal or feel much nostalgia in having a big amount of loose plastic cartridges on my desk / shelve. *my two cents

 

On the other side I enjoy celebrating the feel of an "original" with a stylish manual, some maps, illustratives tables and so on. 

 

Btw. "Her Dark Majesty" was fully SDX/harddisk compatible. So in case you @ilmenit are preparing such typ of quality game please consider harddisk / SDX compatibility

 

 

[Gunstar]

I will buy a copy of any game I like/want as long as it is available for sale when I have the money to buy it. Unfortunately I have a budget and 80% of the time the release of a "limited edition" game is at the wrong time and sold out so quickly I'm too late. This can even happen on a second or third "limited" release, it's still about the timing!!!

 

That being said, as long as the game is worth the money with quality collector's packaging, I would rather have a physical release any day over a freebie or digital download for money. Games mentioned above with physical releases are good examples of the quality I look for in a release. The quality I AVOID AT ALL COSTS in a release is like the way Video61 releases their pay-to-play games with shoddy inkjet printouts for manuals, labels and cheap plastic cases, and for more money than quality releases!

 

Good game + good packaging + right time = YES!!!

Video61 Quality = NO!!! 99% of the time except for Tempest Xtreem, the only game out of them so far that justifies the cost even with cheap and careless packaging.

 

If developers and publishers could make a dozen or two extra above any pre-order amount there would be more sales and they would eventually sell out, from people who didn't have the money at it's release. I wish this would occur more often. I know this is money invested by the developer/publishers, but that's the way it is traditionally and will only help sales. And a nice web-page store front to go to and order is 1000% better than some e-mail exchange and special Paypal addresses to send it too so you have to get in contact, make sure more are available, work out details and finally pay. This route is a major pain in the ass and will also be avoided by me unless the game is spectacular.

[+Philsan]

3 minutes ago, twh/f2 said:

I personally would always prefer ATR/disk (SDrive, SIO2SD) and/or harddisk compatiblity (SIDE2) over any cartridge solution. Actually I find it quite anoying to physically turn off/on my Atari to switch to a single other game while I have a mass storage solution with a DOS and thousands of games and applications on it.

 

The Atari 8bit is a computer not a video game console. So I don't find much appeal or feel much nostalgia in having a big amount of loose plastic cartridges on my desk / shelve. *my two cents

 

On the other side I enjoy celebrating the feel of an "original" with a stylish manual, some maps, illustratives tables and so on. 

 

Btw. "Her Dark Majesty" was fully SDX/harddisk compatible. So in case you @ilmenit are preparing such typ of quality game please consider harddisk / SDX compatibility

 

 

The fact a game is released on cart doesn't mean that you cannot use it with other loading devices.

For example, Pac-Man 2012, Bomb Jake or Space Harrier have XEX versions too...

[twh/f2]

1 minute ago, Philsan said:

The fact a game is released on cart doesn't mean that you cannot use it with other loading devices.

For example, Pac-Man 2012, Bomb Jake or Space Harrier have XEX versions too...

That's of course not to be mixed. I was indeed talking about cart-only game releases. thanks @Philsan for this clarification

[Mclaneinc]

I'm with Gunstar on this although I'd rather have a digital download of an ATR than a real disk, cartridges on the other hand I do like. Poor old lance needs 2 things, a more sane programmer and an update in quality, I actually do like Venture (so that's 2 games from them) but inkjet labels etc don't cut it as Matt says especially when you see the superb quality of boxed stuff from other individuals (and plastic tapes before someone moans). But there in lies the rub, better quality means bigger price but its one thing that has no solve, I like the pretty stuff but it tends to be above my budget. Thankfully there's folks with more spare income and its wonderful to see the programmers and creators getting rewarded.

[Gunstar]

The thing is, Video61 charges, on average, $20-25 more for those cheaply "published" (I can do a better job at home myself with and inkjet and just quality paper/cardboard!) games than the other individuals do for quality publications. It shouldn't cost them anymore than anyone else and everyone else does it! Sheer laziness, carelessness in Video61 new releases. Other than those, I love V61 and I love Lance, the best dealer we have! And why he falls so short with these new game releases is beyond me...however, the flip-side is that they aren't limited edition runs and no one has to miss out because they weren't around or didn't have the money when a game is released "limited edition," so you can know the game is still there to buy, anytime, even years later! I hate limited edition runs that don't at least offer a digital download indefinitely for those who do miss the limited run of physical copies. Those that offer both still get a thumbs up from me (on games that aren't free in any format).

Edited January 21, 2020 by Gunstar

[Mclaneinc]

Not looked at their prices in a while as to be honest there's been nothing worth looking at. Games that go in to horrendous multiplexed sprite flicker just annoy me, the only game that I do like with flicker is Space Harrier, at least its the screen rather than individual items. (and I can frame blend it on Altirra)

 

I think with Lance and the packaging that its a system he knows but isn't in to updating....Mind you, he needs better games as well as getting them better bug tested...

 

But this isn't about Lance, lets see what the game mentioned by the OP is like and take it from there..

[+Philsan]

I'd like to mention the fact that it is possible to sell carts with good packages without asking much money, for example The Rescue Expedition, 39 Euros.

 

 

AtariAge store sells awesome packages for $50: for example Aardvark (VCS), Scramble (5200) Baby Pac-Man (7800)...

[Fred_M]

There is a market for nice homebrew packages, but to make sure you will not get the wrong impression of the poll results:

 

- Most people who are visiting this topic are people who do buy physical releases, so the poll results are not that accurate

 

- Expect to sell (at the right price) dozens, not hundreds of copies

[Gunstar]

23 hours ago, Philsan said:

 

AtariAge store sells awesome packages for $50: for example Aardvark (VCS), Scramble (5200) Baby Pac-Man (7800)...

Too bad none are for the Atari 8-bit. Well, there are two games, with only cart and manual and do not interest me. It's all about consoles in the AtariAge store, so I stopped looking long ago. It's unfortunate since the Atari 8-bits were and are far more popular than the 5200, 7800, Lynx and Jaguar. It would be nice if they picked up some of the limited release games than many of us missed out on and continue to miss out on due to the limited amount and time available. Oh well...

[kiwilove]

3 hours ago, Gunstar said:

Too bad none are for the Atari 8-bit. Well, there are two games, with only cart and manual and do not interest me. It's all about consoles in the AtariAge store, so I stopped looking long ago. It's unfortunate since the Atari 8-bits were and are far more popular than the 5200, 7800, Lynx and Jaguar. It would be nice if they picked up some of the limited release games than many of us missed out on and continue to miss out on due to the limited amount and time available. Oh well...

My memory may not be entirely accurate here - but I thought that anyone could put in a request to Albert to put almost any game onto a cart for Atari 8-bit (or 5200?) - that if they provided the BIN image and artwork for label - that it would be a standard charge for this.  That this would be an option for those who do not have the means to do this for themselves.  Like those who do not have flash carts already and the means to burn/write to their own carts.

Homebrews and hacks would be included if there is no copyright problems attached to them.  All these then falling into a general category of being a reproduction cart and should not be resold as being anything else than this.

I expect there would be not much of a demand for this - and it is not widely publicized.  I think Steve at Atarimax may do something something similar but to a lesser degree.  My guess is that Steve and Albert are normally very busy and don't really want to do requests regularly - but do so, just to help the odd person out.

 

Harvey

[+davidcalgary29]

6 hours ago, Fred_M said:

There is a market for nice homebrew packages, but to make sure you will not get the wrong impression of the poll results:

 

- Most people who are visiting this topic are people who do buy physical releases, so the poll results are not that accurate

 

- Expect to sell (at the right price) dozens, not hundreds of copies

 

It's also important to remember that this is something of a long con. I certainly was active here in 2016 and 2017, and don't remember ever seeing a post about a cartridge release for Jim Slide XL. But apparently there were several of them, so there you go. I think A8 titles tend to sell slowly over several years, and this is a problem, because there's not enough initial demand to make a big run, so once that's sold out, everyone is SOL.

 

2 hours ago, kiwilove said:

My memory may not be entirely accurate here - but I thought that anyone could put in a request to Albert to put almost any game onto a cart for Atari 8-bit (or 5200?) - that if they provided the BIN image and artwork for label - that it would be a standard charge for this.  That this would be an option for those who do not have the means to do this for themselves.  Like those who do not have flash carts already and the means to burn/write to their own carts.

Homebrews and hacks would be included if there is no copyright problems attached to them.  All these then falling into a general category of being a reproduction cart and should not be resold as being anything else than this.

I expect there would be not much of a demand for this - and it is not widely publicized.  I think Steve at Atarimax may do something something similar but to a lesser degree.  My guess is that Steve and Albert are normally very busy and don't really want to do requests regularly - but do so, just to help the odd person out.

 

Harvey

I think maybe the point was that, while there are a few A8 titles in the AA store, none of them were given the deluxe package treatment that grace most of the console titles. Castle Crisis with a big brown Warner Atari box would have been simply incredible.

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

I've bought cartridge versions of tep-with-the-three-digit-number-that-I-forgot-and-am-to-lazy-to-look-up-at-this-hour-of-the-night's PacMan and I bought Space Harrier.  And Video61's version of MIDI-Maze.  I don't need a box and certainly no piece of rope (sorry).  But a cart of Ridiculous Reailty (I hope I remember the name right) would have been nice (I missed it).  If I like the game and the price is right, I'd buy it.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[+DrVenkman]

Frankly this is pretty much exactly how most homebrews in the AtariAge Store work (though not all). The finished or nearly-finished work-in-progress digital file is available freely, while physical carts and/or complete boxed copies are available for a reasonable price for those who either just want one or wish to support the author or both.

[+davidcalgary29]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:32 AM, Gunstar said:

The thing is, Video61 charges, on average, $20-25 more for those cheaply "published" (I can do a better job at home myself with and inkjet and just quality paper/cardboard!) games than the other individuals do for quality publications. It shouldn't cost them anymore than anyone else and everyone else does it! Sheer laziness, carelessness in Video61 new releases. Other than those, I love V61 and I love Lance, the best dealer we have! And why he falls so short with these new game releases is beyond me...however, the flip-side is that they aren't limited edition runs and no one has to miss out because they weren't around or didn't have the money when a game is released "limited edition," so you can know the game is still there to buy, anytime, even years later! I hate limited edition runs that don't at least offer a digital download indefinitely for those who do miss the limited run of physical copies. Those that offer both still get a thumbs up from me (on games that aren't free in any format).

To be fair, though, he did step it up with Tempest Elite. I really appreciated the laminated instructions-poster and the plastic clamshells are a great improvement over those awful cardboard boxes, which always seemed to get mashed.

[Gunstar]

1 hour ago, davidcalgary29 said:

To be fair, though, he did step it up with Tempest Elite. I really appreciated the laminated instructions-poster and the plastic clamshells are a great improvement over those awful cardboard boxes, which always seemed to get mashed.

Are you referring to original cardboard boxes that the NOS Atari games come in? Because I don't recall them ever selling their original games and reprints in cardboard boxes. I've bought 4 original games from Video61 over the last few years and they have always come in those plastic clam-shells with laminated instructions, and ultra-cheap inkjet labels that don't fit the cartridges right and the ultra-cheap labels that come in those clam-shell cases. I redid all of mine so they look authentic, and bought reprint boxes from Nir Dary to replace all of that which I think is all ultra-cheap. If you like them, cool, but I don't, especially for the price when you can get the quality home-brews (yes with colorful cardboard boxes, which I prefer) and real instruction manuals, etc.

 

I know it can be frustrating receiving crushed boxes that were improperly packed in shipping or that accidentally get crushed by the end user, if you aren't careful, but as a collector that is exactly what I want. But my cardboard boxes go on display with the games kept separately, so they don't get crushed. I do wish they all came in sturdier boxes like the classic SSI, Avalon Hill, Epyx and others, but I'll take a quality printed crush-able cardboard box over cheap plastic clam-shells any day. It's nice he at least laminates the regular paper inkjet instructions, but a real manual that fits in a real box is what I'd prefer. He didn't step it up, that's the same they've been using. However, I did reuse those clam-shell cases for a couple of cartridges that I had that were loose (which cost me next to nothing to make proper inserts for that are 1000% better than the cheap labels and inserts from Video61), after getting proper boxes for my XE cartridges from Nir Dary, but if I can ever get a hold of the original cardboard boxes for those games, I'll throw out the clam-shell cases I redid for them too. If that is all good enough for you, for the price, then I'm happy you are happy, but I don't like them, not for the price they sell at.

 

Examples of both below, just to make sure what I have is what you are talking about, since I haven't bought Tempest Elite...and also a picture of a "proper" clam-shell case that came with my Space Harrier cart that I bought from Paul Westphal at Eightbitfix.com 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Gunstar