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jedimatt42

Understanding Ciderpress (for apple newb)

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I don't understand Ciderpress at all.  Maybe I'm assuming features would be there that aren't... first principles seem to be around shrinkit archives of which I have no experience, and I'm a total newb to Apple II.  30+ years ago I used BASIC, and floppies with just files.

 

Seems like you have to extract files from an image before you can add them to another device/image/archive? That is astonishing, as I expect to ruin everything that way, given the multitude of options when extracting.

 

I'm working with a compact flash card, and an image. There is a single partition in the image. There are 4 partitions on the compact flash card. I want to copy all of the partition in the image to the compact flash card, or to a partition within the compact flash card.

 

Seems like I have to create a partition on the compact flash card first from the Apple hardware. Ok, did that. 

 

Now I can't see the target and destination at the same time? Any dialogs I've gone through to add a file, don't offer me anything around selecting where to add it? which directory, in which partition? 

 

Ciderpress presents partitions as directories in a flat structure and directories in the same flat structure...   None of the tutorial that I've seen engages partitions or even directories.

 

Is there better documentation somewhere? 

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Ciderpress functionality hasn't been updated/improved in years. And it certainly isn't aware of partitions on CF cards. Having said that I often work with 2 windows and copy/paste files between disk images thus bypassing extracting and importing.

 

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I didn't see any new window function, but I guess I'll look harder. 

 

I tried the copy item in the edit menu, and it flashed some 'extracting...' noise iterating per file. I had assumed 'copy' puked all over my hard drive in some unspecified location. 

 

Is there some Apple II-ism that makes this tool natural to apple II familiars?

 

----

Anyway, more specifically, my source partition was a PRODOS bootable image. I 'extract'ed all the files from the image, then 'add'ed them all to target partition. The target partition did not become bootable. 

 

Are there rules like most OSs have to making a partition bootable? Can this be done in ciderpress? 

 

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I run two instances of CP when copying bank and forth. And I select files and use right-mouse-click to copy from one instance to another.

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2 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

Is there some Apple II-ism that makes this tool natural to apple II familiars?

Probably yes. It's not unlike a Windows Explorer window, but with its own conventions and ways of doing things. Years ago when I started using this I found it unconventional, too, but was glad to have such a tool available. It was invaluable then as it is now. I even donated to the author or paid for a subscription. That was back in the early 2000's.

 

2 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

Anyway, more specifically, my source partition was a PRODOS bootable image. I 'extract'ed all the files from the image, then 'add'ed them all to target partition. The target partition did not become bootable. 

 

Are there rules like most OSs have to making a partition bootable? Can this be done in ciderpress?

I've never done that particular operation so I'm not sure. Hopefully someone else will swing by and answer.

 

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On 1/25/2020 at 11:26 AM, jedimatt42 said:

I don't understand Ciderpress at all.  Maybe I'm assuming features would be there that aren't...

Yes there are many small things missing. I found the included Help section of the program quite descriptive and useful over the years. And then there is the material at https://a2ciderpress.com/

And on youtube "Gremousedoesstuff" and "Caffeinated Sedation" have something.

..aside from those I don't know of any other source for tutorials.

 

Quote

first principles seem to be around shrinkit archives of which I have no experience, and I'm a total newb to Apple II.  30+ years ago I used BASIC, and floppies with just files.

That's partly true. I strongly believe that archiving and working with archiving tools and utilities on a II series is a tedious experience because of the limitations of disk space and the ability of the hardware to generate detailed comprehensive menus. The resources of the machine are limiting. And you won't see anything grand like WinRAR come to the platform.

 

I suppose shrinkit came about because of the then-still-necessary need to compact and compress stuff for 300/1200 baud dialups/BBS'es/newsgroups. And then there was the desire to interchange data with Macs. None of that is necessary today.

 

I grew up learning and DOS 3.3 on an Apple II+. I never got too much into ProDOS. But I make it a point to always learn something new about it once in a while.

 

I also use Copy II+. You get a potent package if you put Copy II+, CiderPress, and ADTpro or some kind floppy emulator like CFFA3000 in your toolkit.

Edited by Keatah
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On 1/26/2020 at 7:11 PM, Keatah said:

Ciderpress functionality hasn't been updated/improved in years. And it certainly isn't aware of partitions on CF cards. Having said that I often work with 2 windows and copy/paste files between disk images thus bypassing extracting and importing.

 

Actually, Ciderpress can save/load CFFA partitions to/from a CF card via the Volume Copier. I've been backing up my original CFFA partitions for well over 10 years using this feature (it probably works for CFFA3000 images too if you use raw partitions (I use disk images on my CFFA3000 however)).

 

But yes, I too open multiple Ciderpress windows to copy paste between images.

 

Whilst Ciderpress is a bit odd at first in the way you need to do things, once you get the hang of it, it's a very powerful tool (I actually paid for it back before it became freeware).

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