CaptainBreakout Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 The "Donkey King Classics" NES cart/rom is a pretty great NES cart... Incorporating both of the best original Donkey King games, and debatably the truest port on a classic system. But it's got the glaring error.. no pie factory level in DK. The NES ROM with the added pie factory has been floating around for some time. Lots of credit to whomever made it. Any comments or thoughts on what it would take to alter a Donkey King Classics NES ROM to incorporate it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Clae Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 What for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Why not just play it in MAME? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 "Donkey King"? ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBreakout Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 It just seems to me that the NES version is probably the definitive port of Donkey Kong for a classic system. The pie factory version moreso. It's a cart I'd like to have if it exited, that's kinda the long and short of it. It kinda makes me wonder if I could use my limited skills and monkey around with the two ROMs in a hex editor and cobble the full version together, or if it would be much harder than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Wow - cool reception here. I don't think you are crazy or anything. It seems like someone should have made an enhanced DK collection cart. I mean why stop at the Pie Factory when you could add enhanced versions of DK III (I don't think its on there) and Mario Bros? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBreakout Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 Fully agree with the above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) Despite the typos or phone auto-incorrecting I get the point here. 1) NES Donkey Kong with the 'Pie Factory' added they made it. The game that popped up some years ago was made by Nintendo with an updated copyright and it was given away as a freebie outside the US with the RED 25th Anniversary Mario WII console on the internal storage, there was another means or two as well. It's I guess an official hack, though really it's more of a restoration job. Nintendo did this in the UK too years earlier which mode didn't even realize until more current times with a remade version of Mario Bros on NES which added in the missing between stage cut scene and info bits, changed the graphics and audio to mirror the arcade far closer too and it's fantastic. 2) Adding it into DK Classics probably would be potentially possible, but you'd need someone with some incredible hacking skills and an interest, also you'd need to update the ROM chip sizes on the old cart to allow for accommodating the new data and visuals. So it would be quite a bit of work I'm totally understanding/minimizing even writing this so it's highly improbable at best to happen. By the way here it is (Mario Bros that is.) Edited January 28, 2020 by Tanooki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Why wasn't the pie screen in NES DK? They couldn't afford to have more than three looping screens in a simple static screen arcade game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 It gets flickeriffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 The NES DK games are pretty good, but you have to give props to the excellent 7800 ports. Heck, the 7800XM version is better than the NES game now. Pie factory and arcade difficulty, much much better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBreakout Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 I wasn't aware there was a Donkey Kong XM 7800 version. If it's really that good, I'm into it, but how do I get my hands on an XM and a DK 7800 XM cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 hours ago, mbd30 said: Why wasn't the pie screen in NES DK? They couldn't afford to have more than three looping screens in a simple static screen arcade game? I believe it was a combination of rushing it to market in Japan on Famicom, and also because the size of the game had to fit the chip they used at the time. Despite the fact of when we got it, it was an earlier yet release on Famicom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, CaptainBreakout said: I wasn't aware there was a Donkey Kong XM 7800 version. If it's really that good, I'm into it, but how do I get my hands on an XM and a DK 7800 XM cart? You don't need an XM to play Donkey Kong PK... maybe write tep392 (Perry) to see if he can make you a cart. You'll need to supply a Pokey or PokeyONE chip though: ...besides this being a kickass port, it's nice to be able to play Donkey Kong with an Atari joystick vs. an NES gamepad. Gamepad is serviceable of course, just prefer a CX40 when donkey kinging. ? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tanooki said: I believe it was a combination of rushing it to market in Japan on Famicom, and also because the size of the game had to fit the chip they used at the time. Despite the fact of when we got it, it was an earlier yet release on Famicom. I read the theory in other threads that they omitted the level in order to give a reason to play the arcade version because that was still popular at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I wonder if that theory has any merit. I mean looking at the size of the old games when that one dropped they only had so much space. The non-moving screen stuff was all like 32kb chip games and under, but the moving stuff with detail SMB, Kung Fu they are 40kb. I said with detail because I know Balloon Fight moves in mode C but it's very sparse and re-used every asset. The DK with the missing section is that extra 8kb larger as I have the ROM stored. Coincidentally the Mario Bros Arcade Edition (aka the Gamecube edition in the US as is DK) is also 40kb too. I kind of lean towards them having a maximum amount of space, and it kind of fits that both the puffed up 32k games use just another minimum chip space larger 8kb to fit the added missing data to improve them. SMB, KF, and other black box games that were made notably later (in Japan than 1983) were just smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, Tanooki said: I wonder if that theory has any merit. I mean looking at the size of the old games when that one dropped they only had so much space. The non-moving screen stuff was all like 32kb chip games and under, but the moving stuff with detail SMB, Kung Fu they are 40kb. I said with detail because I know Balloon Fight moves in mode C but it's very sparse and re-used every asset. The DK with the missing section is that extra 8kb larger as I have the ROM stored. Coincidentally the Mario Bros Arcade Edition (aka the Gamecube edition in the US as is DK) is also 40kb too. I kind of lean towards them having a maximum amount of space, and it kind of fits that both the puffed up 32k games use just another minimum chip space larger 8kb to fit the added missing data to improve them. SMB, KF, and other black box games that were made notably later (in Japan than 1983) were just smaller. Turns out those NES single screen games such as Donkey Kong are only 24k.That really isn't much space. http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/nesmapper.txt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 If it was a space limitation, it makes sense to eliminate the pie factory since it doesn't fit thematically with the other stages. Donkey Kong is supposed to be climbing a building, and the other stages are themed towards that generic idea. Wasn't Nintendo accused of nerfing the 2600 game in favor of the Coleco? Also, the original 7800 version also did not have the factory stage, but the 8-bit Atari computer version did have it. That kind of contradicts the accusation that they harmed the 2600 version. It seems to me Nintendo did what it could on each platform with the tech available and coding expertise at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 7 hours ago, mbd30 said: Turns out those NES single screen games such as Donkey Kong are only 24k.That really isn't much space. http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/nesmapper.txt Yeah they're tiny alright, I was going off the raw data sitting in the archive I have stored of all that stuff. I'm sure the didn't all fit the space, just was trying to make the point those original run 1983 era single panel type games or minimum movement stuff on a plane are a step down in what's required to hold the data that Kung Fu and SMB1 do. Kobra: The stage they removed due to the limitations was also about the climbing of the building too and the work area about that space. What's there is a mix of girders and also a conveyor belt that moves along with cement to build the concrete walls of the structure. Just for some dumb reason someone years ago because of 8bit art saw something in it, they called it pies, therefore pie factory. As you pointed out going backwards into Atari you do hae that contradictory inclusion/exclusion of the stage. In the end yeah I think Nintendo just looked at what they were stuck with and made the best of the situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBreakout Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 I certainly learned a lot in this discussion. Looks like shoehorning Donkey Kong Original Edition in the DK Classics NES ROM would be much more on the involved side. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. On the other hand, it looks like there could be some interest in a special NES cart that included these two games, especially if it included DK3 and Mario Bros. Interesting. Oh and thanks everyone for turning me on to the outrageously good 7800 Donkey Kong PK homebrew. I never thought the superior console port of Donkey Kong for a classic system would be on any platform but Nintendo... but wonders never cease. I went ahead and ordered one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I ordered an NES cart of the Rom which included the Pie Factory (some say Cement Plant)...But I can't remember where I got it. My thought is a lot of repro makers don't want to use a name that might bring Nintendo to their doorstep, but it couldn't hurt to ask...Some probably have it if you want it, but they don't advertise it. I quit buying repros so much after getting an Everdrive. OK I found one like mine, but mine was IIRC $35 some years back, so this is more expensive unfortunately... (There's a few cheaper ones in the Other Sellers on Amazon part below Add to Cart) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005XOMARY?tag=picclick0f-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, CaptainBreakout said: Oh and thanks everyone for turning me on to the outrageously good 7800 Donkey Kong PK homebrew. I never thought the superior console port of Donkey Kong for a classic system would be on any platform but Nintendo... but wonders never cease. I went ahead and ordered one. Extremely cool of Perry that he's willing and able to produce these in such small lots (or by request), when he's got enough parts to do so. What a guy!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBreakout Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, save2600 said: Extremely cool of Perry that he's willing and able to produce these in such small lots (or by request), when he's got enough parts to do it. What a guy!! I agree. This was a probably the easiest non-preordered totally off-the-cuff Homebrew purchase I think I've made ever. And yeah, very cool guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, CaptainBreakout said: I agree. This was a probably the easiest non-preordered totally off-the-cuff Homebrew purchase I think I've made ever. And yeah, very cool guy. You're gonna love it! Features are awesome too... ability to choose between US and Japanese screen order is so cool. Selectable Arcade and Novice difficulty is nice as well. One of my favorite homebrew purchases for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcos Moutta Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 On 1/28/2020 at 3:57 PM, mbd30 said: Why wasn't the pie screen in NES DK? They couldn't afford to have more than three looping screens in a simple static screen arcade game? I know nobody cares and it's been three years but It wasn't in the original version because it causes sprite flickering. That would have been a bad look for the Famicom in 1983. That's about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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