Finally an Atari ST owner

[EdTorockio]

Hi Everyone.  Introductions.  I'm Ed from Pittsburgh, PA now in Raleigh, NC.  I grew up in the 80's and 90's.  First computer that was mine was an Atari 130XE.  Sadly, after going to college, graduating, getting married yadda yadda... my parents decided to clean house in and it with my entire software collection, working printer, 1050, controllers, everything was donated to a GoodWill.  Who know someone in this forum may be enjoying it to this day, I surely hope so.  It had always been a dream of mine to own an ST however.  My Dad and I used to go to the local WACO (Westmoreland Atari Computer Organization) that met once a month.  One day around 1987 I saw demonstrated at the club an ST running GEM TOS and I was hooked.  Had Macs, and PCs, and PowerPCs, etc... but always wanted to go back and get an ST

 

Today it arrived.  An Atari 520STM upgraded to 1 MB and some "video modifications"  Only paid $60 for it so I figured would give it a try and if it doesnt work - could be a fun project to try to fix.  I am good with a soldering iron, my other hobby is working on Nscale model trains - so yeah, small wire and parts I am good with soldering on.

 

Here is the image from ebay:

  

 

From Ebay:  "This computer has been fitted with a memory expansion board, so it has 1 megabyte of RAM.  It also has a modification to the video circuit, as shown in the pictures. I do not know what this does, but I suspect that it may convert the RF output from a modulated signal (requiring a TV with an NTSC tuner on channel 3 or 4) to a composite (unmodulated) video signal.  I did not test this video output however, I only tested the RGB output as shown, which works.  The mouse port also works, but I did not test any other external ports."

 

Already ordered a 13pin din to VGA cable with 3.5mm sound which is on its way.  I have an old 4:8 ratio LCD screen that has inputs for: VGA, S-video, Composite, 3.5mm sound, and Component.  I have a lead on a 760k floppy external drive.

 

My question to the group is - what else do you recommend - where do I go from here?  Should I take the hood off and look inside, or wait for the accessories to arrive.   

 

Thanks Everyone!

 

Ed

[EdTorockio]

Here is the image of the inside that was posted on ebay:

 

[+eebuckeye]

Raleigh.. nice! Me too!  Are you an Atari only guy?  I have an Atari ST also..

[snarkdluG]

You need a floppy drive.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

That talk about " convert the RF output from a modulated signal (requiring a TV with an NTSC tuner on channel 3 or 4) to a composite (unmodulated) video signal " (sorry for size, really does not deserve more ?  )

is typical for sellers - complete rubbish - while could look for what outputs are on STs.  If there is RF, then there is composite output too (look ST video connector pins and functions). And converting from RF to composite would be low quality at high price.   Only once I saw composite to RGB converter in one C64 - which has no RGB out - was from France, and since was no Secam C64 manufactured it was necessary for those (I guess minority) which TV was not multi norm, so were no colors with PAL (Eu market) C64 .  Basically, they added to C64 circuit what is normally in PAL TV-s .

Really can not say about that mod - only 1 wire to modulator is visible on photos.

[EdTorockio]

8 hours ago, eebuckeye said:

Raleigh.. nice! Me too!  Are you an Atari only guy?  I have an Atari ST also..

Nice, I know of 1 other ST owner I met on FB recently.  There is a Retro Computer Group for Raleigh on FB.  You should consider joining.  Right now there are less than 20 members, all different retro PCs, but there is talk of meeting potentially for an ongoing club.   Look me up on FB too.  Ed Torockio.  

6 hours ago, snarkdluG said:

You need a floppy drive.

Ordered one last night, its a 720k.  Id preferr a 1.44mb but its a start.   

 

Also planning on getting a Gotek or Ultrasatan.  Really need to find one in a case however.

4 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

That talk about " convert the RF output from a modulated signal (requiring a TV with an NTSC tuner on channel 3 or 4) to a composite (unmodulated) video signal " (sorry for size, really does not deserve more ?  )

is typical for sellers - complete rubbish - while could look for what outputs are on STs.  If there is RF, then there is composite output too (look ST video connector pins and functions). And converting from RF to composite would be low quality at high price.   Only once I saw composite to RGB converter in one C64 - which has no RGB out - was from France, and since was no Secam C64 manufactured it was necessary for those (I guess minority) which TV was not multi norm, so were no colors with PAL (Eu market) C64 .  Basically, they added to C64 circuit what is normally in PAL TV-s .

Really can not say about that mod - only 1 wire to modulator is visible on photos.

I too am skeptical.  Although the seller says it works.  I have a cable ordered on fingers crossed will be here in a week.    Which is a long time to wait.

 

 

Thanks for the responses everyone!   Keep em coming.

 

Ed

[+SoulBuster]

You will have to modify the computer to use 1.44 floppies and drives. It is not recommended to use 1.44 floppies as 720k floppies, get real 720k floppies.  The encoding wears out within short periods of time (days, weeks, months?)

 

A Couple of vendors sell the kits for the upgrade.  You can find a link thread at the top of this forum to find the kit.

[+DarkLord]

Forget the 1.44 upgrade. Just not  necessary if you get a mass storage

device like an Ultrasatan. Format the SDcard for it with the right parameters

and you can transfer files between your Atari ST and a PC easily. 

 

It's a no-brainer. 

 

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Agree with Dark.  Floppies are really obsolete and problematic now. I have here at least 100 DD disks, about 80 HD, so no problem with it. And no so fast wearing.

HD floppies are just little less good for DD drives, but it may work fine if all is in good condition and not too old - heh - latest is not fulfilled anymore. And stays for DD disks too.

Flash cards are the present. In the beginning I paid about 2 DEM for 1 DD SS (360 K) floppy disks (1987) - because I bought 520 with SF354 (SS). I got little later DS drive - for less money than price diff between 354 and 314, just to add. What want to say is that look this:  360, OK, calculate with 400 KB for 2 DEM, what is about 2 Euros now, taking inflation in it. For 20 Euros now can get 32 GB SD card -  that's about 70000 x more capacity . Faster, more reliable .

 

[Wally1]

I say ixnay to the Ultra.

 

Floppy power.

 

 

[+DarkLord]

No comparison in performance and features - but with a US, why not have both?

 

[EdTorockio]

Appreciate everyone's experience and recommendations.

 

Here are my purchase updates and what is and isnt working.

• I've been able to get an old LCD hooked up with a Dinn to VGA cable.  But it doesnt support color, and I have another cable ordered.
• Hooked up an external Floppy SF314 with external brick power supply
• Ultasatan arrived today
• Received UMS the universal military simulator
• Aftermarket mouse
• Atari Joystick
• Shadowgate game ordered

Noticing some weird things, I probably need to read more online but not yet sure where to get the info.

 

First, when I hooked up my Ultrasatan and popped in the SD card that came with it, it looks like it was partitioned into several drives.  When I open up the games folder, none of the individual games listes (which included old favs like 1943) had any actual files in them.

 

Second, the ST recognizes the UMS floppy, sees there are files, but wont run them.  

[+eebuckeye]

Nice! Where did you get the Ultrasatan?  I did not think those were being made anymore.

[EdTorockio]

2 hours ago, eebuckeye said:

Nice! Where did you get the Ultrasatan?  I did not think those were being made anymore.

Lotharek from the auction site, with shipping came to be about $145

 

If I can get it working will let you know.

[+DarkLord]

8 hours ago, eebuckeye said:

Nice! Where did you get the Ultrasatan?  I did not think those were being made anymore.

Lotharek still makes/sells them.

 

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=47

 

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=48

 

Check his store out - he's got lots of great stuff there.

 

[Bee]

Congratulations on your ST!   I just dug out my 1040stf and I have. Mega 2 still put away I will grab next time I can reach it.  I decided to pull mine out to use as a VT100 terminal on a SM124 monitor.  I have built a few Z80 CP/M computers and the ST can act as their interface.  I'm looking at an Ultrasatan Mini.

 

Thank you

[English Invader]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:27 PM, EdTorockio said:

Noticing some weird things, I probably need to read more online but not yet sure where to get the info.

 

First, when I hooked up my Ultrasatan and popped in the SD card that came with it, it looks like it was partitioned into several drives.  When I open up the games folder, none of the individual games listes (which included old favs like 1943) had any actual files in them.

 

Second, the ST recognizes the UMS floppy, sees there are files, but wont run them.  

 

Your ST only has 1MB of RAM and the TOS ROM is likely either 1.00 or 1.02 which is insufficient for running a hard drive and, if memory serves, the driver that Lotharek provides is unable to run commercial software.  You need the PP driver for that and it's up to you to format and partition the SD card.

 

If I had seen this thread sooner, I would have recommended a Gotek floppy emulator rather than a hard drive emulator because it's more suited to the specs of your system but you should still get some decent use out of the US if you upgrade the memory to 4MB and replace the TOS with 1.04.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

6 hours ago, English Invader said:

 

Your ST only has 1MB of RAM and the TOS ROM is likely either 1.00 or 1.02 which is insufficient for running a hard drive and, if memory serves, the driver that Lotharek provides is unable to run commercial software.  You need the PP driver for that and it's up to you to format and partition the SD card.

 

If I had seen this thread sooner, I would have recommended a Gotek floppy emulator rather than a hard drive emulator because it's more suited to the specs of your system but you should still get some decent use out of the US if you upgrade the memory to 4MB and replace the TOS with 1.04.

OMG !  So much incorrect claims in just one reply. TOS 1.00 and 1.02 can work with hard drives. Only that max partition size is limited to 256 MB. And less reliable, little slower, but not that bad. Plenty of people using 1.02 or 1.00 (much more first of 2), and can run commercial SW. Actually, this is first time I see this claim about that because driver commercial SW will not work ? 

My hard disk adaptations were tested with diverse TOS versions, and all it works under TOS 1.02, and most likely 1.00, although I did not test with it. No need, really.

Most likely it is my driver, demo version what is in question here, since I made game compilation on Lotharek's request. He used ICD driver before, and sends some other compilation too now, with demos and games, probably with ICD.  What I composed is on 6 partitions, right because older TOS versions, so on 6x 255 MB partitions.

 

It is not hard drive emulator. UltraSatan is real hard disk in fact, and SD cards are even harder than some classic hard disk ? Not to mention that much more solid .

OK, latest sentence is good advice: upgrading memory, and TOS to 1.04 (preferable 1.04i ? ) is useful. Hard disk versions of SW (games mostly) will need more RAM than when run from floppy or Gotek - so 1 MB games need 2 MB RAM usually. Since this has already 1 MB RAM, about 90% of hard disk adapted games will work - well, when all is OK.

Hard disk versions offer more than floppy versions, cracks: possible to exit to Desktop, to position where started game, to save game states any moment. No need for swapping disks or images on some HW floppy emulator like Gotek or HxC . And of course much faster load, start.

[Colleton]

Good for you.  I bought an UltraSatan from Lotharek a few weeks back and am very pleased with it.  Works just like my HD did back in the day.  One thing you need to do though is to purchase a full HD driver from either http://atari.8bitchip.info/pphdr.php (AA user: ParanoidLittleMan) or https://www.hddriver.net/en/

 

If you have an SD card reader, open the SD card from Lotharek (it will open on your PC as multiple drives) and copy everything on the drives to your PC.  It's good to have a backup.  Later, after you have bought a HD driver, you can copy the files you want onto the SD card you partitioned on your ST.

 

On 3/9/2020 at 2:59 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Most likely it is my driver, demo version what is in question here, since I made game compilation on Lotharek's request. He used ICD driver before, and sends some other compilation too now, with demos and games, probably with ICD.  What I composed is on 6 partitions, right because older TOS versions, so on 6x 255 MB partitions.

 

Yes, your demo version came with the US I ordered from Lotharek a few weeks ago.  I had already bought the full HDDRIVER package though, didn't realize that you were PP until afterward.

[leech]

I have both the commercial ppera driver and hddriver, oddly enough I have never been able to get hddriver to be readable under Linux, but I can read it under Windows.  Ppera driver on the otherhand works great in both.

[+DarkLord]

Hmm, odd. Did you format it with DOS compatibility? (1.4)

 

The 2 gig Sandisk cards I use work great with Kubuntu Linux

here, with Mtools.

 

Of course, it is command line driven and some people don't like

that....

 

[Wally1]

G-d Luck, Ed.

 

W

 

[EdTorockio]

On 3/9/2020 at 3:59 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

OMG !  So much incorrect claims in just one reply. TOS 1.00 and 1.02 can work with hard drives. Only that max partition size is limited to 256 MB. And less reliable, little slower, but not that bad. Plenty of people using 1.02 or 1.00 (much more first of 2), and can run commercial SW. Actually, this is first time I see this claim about that because driver commercial SW will not work ? 

My hard disk adaptations were tested with diverse TOS versions, and all it works under TOS 1.02, and most likely 1.00, although I did not test with it. No need, really.

Most likely it is my driver, demo version what is in question here, since I made game compilation on Lotharek's request. He used ICD driver before, and sends some other compilation too now, with demos and games, probably with ICD.  What I composed is on 6 partitions, right because older TOS versions, so on 6x 255 MB partitions.

 

It is not hard drive emulator. UltraSatan is real hard disk in fact, and SD cards are even harder than some classic hard disk ? Not to mention that much more solid .

OK, latest sentence is good advice: upgrading memory, and TOS to 1.04 (preferable 1.04i ? ) is useful. Hard disk versions of SW (games mostly) will need more RAM than when run from floppy or Gotek - so 1 MB games need 2 MB RAM usually. Since this has already 1 MB RAM, about 90% of hard disk adapted games will work - well, when all is OK.

Hard disk versions offer more than floppy versions, cracks: possible to exit to Desktop, to position where started game, to save game states any moment. No need for swapping disks or images on some HW floppy emulator like Gotek or HxC . And of course much faster load, start.

Thanks!  Had to put off working on the Atari for a little bit.  Ordered 1.04 online and should be here this weekend.  Also picked up a Mega 2.  Will see how this works with the TOS update. The nice thing about the Mega is it has a blitter, and a 1.44 HD floppy.  

[ParanoidLittleMan]

It's not Mega ST what has HD floppy, but Mega STE, and even not all of them were equipped with HD floppy drive, but support is there ( Ajax chip and 16 MHz option for it) .