So what exactly is the Jaguar complete set?

[Rayvolution]

Hey all, I've been collecting Jaguar for quite a while now.. and I think I'm nearly at a complete set. But I'm not entirely sure what a "complete set" is. Where do we draw the line between the titles when the Jaguar was released, and the titles that came out after the Jaguar is canceled? There's a lot of games that were released in the late 90s I'm not sure exactly where or how they fit in, and if they're considered part of the complete set, like AirCars, Worms, Battlesphere, Zero 5, and possibly Towers II.

 

For now, I've just been running off this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atari_Jaguar_games

 

Now I'm down to AirCars, Breakout 2000 and Worms on that list and trying to figure out exactly what I am missing. Anyone out there able to give me some direction on what the community generally considers an official release, homebrew, etc, and what constitutes a "complete set"?

 

I attached a pic of my Jag stuff if you guys are interested.

 

Thanks!

Edited February 7, 2020 by Rayvolution

[+CyranoJ]

23 minutes ago, Rayvolution said:

For now, I've just been running off this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atari_Jaguar_games

 

That list has been revised, fixed, edited and broken so many times by KGRAMR I think it may as well be nuked from orbit.  The guy doesn't even own the system and considers himself an authority on it.

 

You'll never have a full set, some titles only had limited runs (sometimes in single digits) so just collect what you enjoy and have fun with it all.

[Hyper_Eye]

I define a complete set as all cart and CD games that were available at retail. Personally I consider that to exclude Aircars but some will disagree. I think most would agree that Battlesphere would be considered "aftermarket" as well as any Songbird or other titles that were finished and released after the retail life of the console. I felt that I had to have the Songbird and Telegames (many of which were available at retail) titles. For me the last game that I purchased to "complete" my collection was Braindead 13 in the long box. Braindead 13 is not hard or expensive to get. Getting it in the longbox is another story.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Hyper_Eye

[Rayvolution]

23 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

 

That list has been revised, fixed, edited and broken so many times by KGRAMR I think it may as well be nuked from orbit.  The guy doesn't even own the system and considers himself an authority on it.

 

You'll never have a full set, some titles only had limited runs (sometimes in single digits) so just collect what you enjoy and have fun with it all.

 

Huh, I never realized that. Is there any info how or why KGRAMR is just making things up? Also, what are some examples of games only released in the single digits? Were any of them released while Jaguar was still in production that aren't homebrews/hacks? ?

 

14 minutes ago, Hyper_Eye said:

I define a complete set as all cart and CD games that were available at retail. Personally I consider that to exclude Aircars but some will disagree. I think most would agree that Battlesphere would be considered "aftermarket" as well as any Songbird or other titles that were finished and released after the retail life of the console. For me I felt that I had to have the Songbird and Telegames (many of which were available at retail) titles. For me the last game that I purchased to "complete" my collection was Braindead 13 in the long box. Braindead 13 is not hard or expensive to get. Getting it in the longbox is another story.

 

That's sort of my personal idea of what a complete set is as well, but I've always been a bit unsure if that was the right way to look at it. Thus why I went ahead and started using the wiki list I linked above, it was the closest thing I could find to any sort of official list. But to me, it makes sense anything released after Atari officially canceled the console (1996) should not count. Alternatively, maybe anything released after Hasbro released the rights. (1998? 99?)

 

But it gets a little fuzzy with some games, like AirCars and Zero 5 (1997), and Worms (1998) that at least a few people consider the "Last release". If Worms counts, then AirCars and Zero 5 must too.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/168576-last-jaguar-game/?do=findComment&comment=2084882
https://www.oldschoolgamermagazine.com/the-last-official-release-atari-jaguar-worms-1998/ 

I suppose I could simply just collect Worms and AirCars anyway, so I have a complete set under both definitions. ?

Edited February 7, 2020 by Rayvolution

[Hyper_Eye]

4 minutes ago, Rayvolution said:

But it gets a little fuzzy with some games, like AirCars and Zero 5 (1997), and Worms (1998) that at least a few people consider the "Last release". If Worms counts, then AirCars and Zero 5 must too.

Even with that criteria I would exclude AirCars because Zero 5 and Worms were released in complete retail packaging and were readily available. AirCars was only available in a limited quantity by mail order and it came in a shrink-wrapped tray insert. Atari certainly never would have allowed the game to go to retail shelves in that packaging. My contention is that, should you include AirCars, only the original run counts. All subsequent releases were not produced by ICD and weren't necessarily based on the version of the game released by ICD. I have K-A AirCars but I don't feel that it can count as owning AirCars as would be considered part of a complete collection if it is included. Only that limited, rarely sold, and expensive original AirCars would do.

[+CyranoJ]

8 minutes ago, Rayvolution said:

Huh, I never realized that. Is there any info how or why KGRAMR is just making things up? Also, what are some examples of games only released in the single digits? Were any of them released while Jaguar was still in production that aren't homebrews/hacks? ?

The forum database would crash if we went into KGRAMR and his history/associations/reasons.

 

Well, Rocketeer (Reboot) only had 5 cards made (3 in one colour, 2 in another)... I think Blackout only had 21 copies... stuff like that.  Personally, aside from a handful of titles, the library doesn't even begin for me until homebrew.

[Rayvolution]

3 minutes ago, Hyper_Eye said:

Even with that criteria I would exclude AirCars because Zero 5 and Worms were released in complete retail packaging and were readily available. AirCars was only available in a limited quantity by mail order and it came in a shrink-wrapped tray insert. Atari certainly never would have allowed the game to go to retail shelves in that packaging. My contention is that, should you include AirCars, only the original run counts. All subsequent releases were not produced by ICD and weren't necessarily based on the version of the game released by ICD. I have K-A AirCars but I don't feel that it can count as owning AirCars as would be considered part of a complete collection if it is included. Only that limited, rarely sold, and expensive original AirCars would do.

 

That's a fair point, and I also would only consider the original release of AirCars in all its ugly glory as well, if it counts at all anyway. I might grab a repro box just to make it less-ugly though. Assuming I buy it at all, assuming I ever can even find it. I actually have to double check all my games to make sure I have original print runs of everything, I know a few of them had more runs long after the Jag was canceled. But, *most all* of those are called "Limited Editions" or something similar. All of mine (except Iron Soldier 2) as far as I know are original prints.

 

 

3 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

The forum database would crash if we went into KGRAMR and his history/associations/reasons.

 

ohh fun, sounds like some interesting drama. Let me guess, it's a case of "Arrogant and ignorant contributor who knows everything, actually doesn't. But doesn't care and presses on spreading blatant misinformation based on invalid opinions"?   I'll have to look up the drama sometime.

[+CyranoJ]

Just now, Rayvolution said:

ohh fun, sounds like some interesting drama. Let me guess, it's a case of "Arrogant and ignorant contributor who knows everything, actually doesn't. But doesn't care and presses on spreading blatant misinformation based on invalid opinions"?   I'll have to look up the drama sometime.

 

Throw in an affiliation with a certain developer whose titles he regularly over inflated and a desire to throw libel in the direction of another and you've pretty much nailed it.

[Rick Dangerous]

I think there are a few main ways people think about this:

 

1.  Just retail releases

 

2.  Everything  (alll the games, homebrew, ST Ports, Late Releases, betas, alpha's, pirates, random niche releases, on and on, etc. etc.)

 

3.  Whatever you consider complete because you like it or it's good.

 

There is no official Jaguar collectors certification board for your collection; no 100% complete certificate to be earned; so realistically it's whatever makes you happy! 

[Goochman]

A complete set is Checkered Flag, Club Drive, Trevor McFur, Super Cross 3D and Double Dragon.  That is the complete golden turd set

[+Sauron]

4 hours ago, Goochman said:

A complete set is Checkered Flag, Club Drive, Trevor McFur, Super Cross 3D and Double Dragon.  That is the complete golden turd set

Trevor McFur is of far better quality than the others on that list. I'd replace it with Evolution Dino Dudes.

 

[Flojomojo]

5 hours ago, Goochman said:

A complete set is Checkered Flag, Club Drive, Trevor McFur, Super Cross 3D and Double Dragon.  That is the complete golden turd set

Don't forget Kasumi Ninja.

 

I swear that cartridge reproduces itself, like a Tribble. 

[racerx]

17 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

Well, Rocketeer (Reboot) only had 5 cards made (3 in one colour, 2 in another)

 

That doesn't count.

 

 

Nor do these.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by racerx

[Rayvolution]

Thanks for all the help everyone. It looks like a "complete set" by my own personal idea of it would be basically anything on the wiki list, less AirCars and possibly anything released after 96. I'm still going to try to get my hands on Worms and AirCars someday. But it's nice to know I probably just need Breakout 2000 to consider the "set" complete, and everything else after is sugar on top. Only problem is getting the non-"Limited Edition" of both Worms and Breakout 2000. But hey, at least I'm in the home stretch. I'd love to get into some of the higher quality homebrews too, but I'll probably get into that after I finish my Jaguar CD stuff.

 

Does anyone know if Zero 5 ever had a proper "official" release when the Jaguar was still strong? My copy has the round holosticker the MyAtari/B & C ComputerVisions guy puts on his, so I'm assuming it's a "reprint" run.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Rayvolution

[+madman]

I used to have a full set, started selling it off when the prices went insane and in general starting paring down my video game collections. I considered all the Telegames releases as part of my full set including some of the Songbird titles, but not Air Cars. YMMV. If you're looking to add some fun games to the collection, I'd suggest checking out the Atari Age store and at the least picking up Rebooteroids. 

 

ETA: I don't know that I'd waste much time looking for the non-LE versions of Telegames releases. They're much harder to come by, Telegames packing/labels have been all over the place even back since the Lynx days. 

[Hyper_Eye]

You can get both Worms and Zero 5 directly from Telegames.

 

Worms: http://www.telegames.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5436

Zero 5: http://www.telegames.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5437

 

Zero 5 is also available from Songbird: https://www.songbird-productions.com/catalog.shtml

 

As madman said Telegames has been making these all along and their labels have changed many times over the years.

[Rayvolution]

5 minutes ago, Hyper_Eye said:

You can get both Worms and Zero 5 directly from Telegames.

 

Worms: http://www.telegames.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5436

Zero 5: http://www.telegames.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5437

 

Zero 5 is also available from Songbird: https://www.songbird-productions.com/catalog.shtml

 

As madman said Telegames has been making these all along and their labels have changed many times over the years.

 

Oh yeah, I've known of both those sites to order them. But I was hoping to find the older print runs. I may just settle for these for now though, and maybe if I get lucky in the future I'll go for the (original?) print runs that don't say "Limited Edition" anywhere on them.

[NeoGeoNinja]

Nice collection. I used to own a great many Jag games but pared it down years ago by, simply, off loading some less desirable and less played items (Fight for Life, Double Dragon V, Supercross, Club Drive, Checkered Flag plus more). Being a NeoGeo guy I kept some fighters ppl will likely find questionable (Kasumi Ninja & Ultra Vortek) but they're all part of that Jaguar experience! I have a bit of a thing for Dragon too I'm afraid.

 

I would consider, as others have said, the complete set to be the original retail releases really. You can be flexible with some of the Telegames stuff too I suppose?

 

Some observations of the photo depicted:

 

1. You have a Jag CD and presumably some games, but theyre not in the photo?

2. Arguably, there are 2x variants of Power Drive Rally to consider. Personally, I favour the version you haven't got in the photo.

3. What's game to the right of Iron Soldier? Do you have the Cart release of Iron Soldier 2? Not sure if it's considered part of the 'set', so to speak?

[NeoGeoNinja]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:09 PM, Goochman said:

A complete set is Checkered Flag, Club Drive, Trevor McFur, Super Cross 3D and Double Dragon.  That is the complete golden turd set

On 2/7/2020 at 6:25 PM, Sauron said:

Trevor McFur is of far better quality than the others on that list. I'd replace it with Evolution Dino Dudes.

23 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Don't forget Kasumi Ninja.

 

I swear that cartridge reproduces itself, like a Tribble. 

 

I like this COMPLETE Golden Turd Set.

 

I agree that Trevor McFur has no place in it (it's better than those stated, especially with a rapid-fire pad) and I think Kasumi Ninja is a 'cut above' Golden Turd status too (see what I did there?).

 

My COMPLETE Golden Turd 5 would be: Fight For Life (No.1, by far), Double Dragon V (dreadful), Bubsy (sorry DoctorClu!), Checkered Flag (music is great though!), and Supercross 3D.

 

And, I've never had the pleasure, but would imagine, had I played them/wasted money buying them, Zoop, FlipOut, Troy Aikmen, Dino Dudes could have been right up there too!

 

Oh, Club Drive was spared as it has some fun 2P modes. 1P 'game' is pretty pointless though...

 

[+pboland]

19 hours ago, Rayvolution said:

Thanks for all the help everyone. It looks like a "complete set" by my own personal idea of it would be basically anything on the wiki list, less AirCars and possibly anything released after 96. I'm still going to try to get my hands on Worms and AirCars someday. But it's nice to know I probably just need Breakout 2000 to consider the "set" complete, and everything else after is sugar on top. Only problem is getting the non-"Limited Edition" of both Worms and Breakout 2000. But hey, at least I'm in the home stretch. I'd love to get into some of the higher quality homebrews too, but I'll probably get into that after I finish my Jaguar CD stuff.

 

Does anyone know if Zero 5 ever had a proper "official" release when the Jaguar was still strong? My copy has the round holosticker the MyAtari/B & C ComputerVisions guy puts on his, so I'm assuming it's a "reprint" run.

Maybe this will help.

My original Jag I bought in 1995. I remember purchasing my CD unit not long after. My last retail purchases for the the system were:

 

- Zero 5

- Breakout 2000

- Towers II

- Iron Solider II (CD version)

 

They were all purchased at an Electronic Boutique in Lexington KY. I want to say around late 96/97 time frame.

Unfortunately, I had to sell my original Jag set-up (system, CD unit and games) do to family obligations in 2006. I know I will most likely never have those titles again. ☹️

 

I hope that helps.

 

[Rayvolution]

1 hour ago, NeoGeoNinja said:

Nice collection. I used to own a great many Jag games but pared it down years ago by, simply, off loading some less desirable and less played items (Fight for Life, Double Dragon V, Supercross, Club Drive, Checkered Flag plus more). Being a NeoGeo guy I kept some fighters ppl will likely find questionable (Kasumi Ninja & Ultra Vortek) but they're all part of that Jaguar experience! I have a bit of a thing for Dragon too I'm afraid.

 

I would consider, as others have said, the complete set to be the original retail releases really. You can be flexible with some of the Telegames stuff too I suppose?

 

Some observations of the photo depicted:

 

1. You have a Jag CD and presumably some games, but theyre not in the photo?

2. Arguably, there are 2x variants of Power Drive Rally to consider. Personally, I favour the version you haven't got in the photo.

3. What's game to the right of Iron Soldier? Do you have the Cart release of Iron Soldier 2? Not sure if it's considered part of the 'set', so to speak?

1. I actually don't yet! Aside from the pack-in games anyway. My Jag CD is New In Box, and all the contents inside are still sealed (and likely the Jag CD is broken because that's just how it goes ?). But I plan to start in on Jag CD after I finish the cartridges.

2. Ohh, I didn't know there was a variant, I'll have to look for it. What makes it different? I know there's a few other variants, like the 1mb and 2mb Cybermorph, and a "black" and "gray" cart Raidens. Also if they count, all the "Limited Edition" versions of most Telegames releases. I may start picking some up on the side just for fun, after I have at least one version of each release game.

3) Yeah, that's the cart edition of Iron Soldier 2. I don't consider it part of the set, but I picked it up anyways. 

 

1 hour ago, pboland said:

Maybe this will help.

My original Jag I bought in 1995. I remember purchasing my CD unit not long after. My last retail purchases for the the system were:

 

- Zero 5

- Breakout 2000

- Towers II

- Iron Solider II (CD version)

 

They were all purchased at an Electronic Boutique in Lexington KY. I want to say around late 96/97 time frame.

Unfortunately, I had to sell my original Jag set-up (system, CD unit and games) do to family obligations in 2006. I know I will most likely never have those titles again. ☹️

 

I hope that helps.

 

That's awesome info, thanks! I've been trying to figure out if Towers II and Zero 5 were *ever* actually on the shelf or not, but I keep getting conflicting information. Nice to know at least one verifiable instance of someone who actually physically bought them in store.

 

With Zero 5, I know it's a long shot, but do you remember what holo sticker it had on it? (Round one, or little square one). Mine has the round sticker MyAtari puts on their new print runs. So I assume mine is a "newer" copy, but I'm not sure if those holo stickers were ever used in the past or if thats a thing only those guys do.

[NeoGeoNinja]

 

28 minutes ago, Rayvolution said:

2. Ohh, I didn't know there was a variant, I'll have to look for it. What makes it different? I know there's a few other variants, like the 1mb and 2mb Cybermorph, and a "black" and "gray" cart Raidens. Also if they count, all the "Limited Edition" versions of most Telegames releases. I may start picking some up on the side just for fun, after I have at least one version of each release game.

 

Well, personally, theres never been anything all that compelling on Jag CD for me to take the plunge re: outlay. I admit I wouldnt mind Battlemorph, IS2CD and Hover Strike UL though.

 

And, re: Power Drive Rally...

 

 

I imagine this would have been the original box art but, somehow, ended up with that US Ford Sierra art too...?

[Rayvolution]

1 hour ago, NeoGeoNinja said:

 

 

Well, personally, theres never been anything all that compelling on Jag CD for me to take the plunge re: outlay. I admit I wouldnt mind Battlemorph, IS2CD and Hover Strike UL though.

 

And, re: Power Drive Rally...

 

<snip>

 

I imagine this would have been the original box art but, somehow, ended up with that US Ford Sierra art too...?

Oh wow, I've never seen that variant before anywhere. I'm guessing it must be pretty rare? That or I just somehow skipped over it because I honestly wasn't giving Power Drive much attention.

 

Now I need to check my cartridge, because my CIB Power Drive was pieced together from a loose cart I got a while back, and an empty box I picked up more recently. So hopefully the cart is the right one for the box I stuck it in.  

[+madman]

The Euro PDR box is rarer...until you try to sell it and the potential buyer will tell you it's not worth anything. It makes sense that it'd be less rare in the UK though.

[Major Havoc 2049]

On 2/8/2020 at 1:55 PM, Rayvolution said:

1. I actually don't yet! Aside from the pack-in games anyway. My Jag CD is New In Box, and all the contents inside are still sealed (and likely the Jag CD is broken because that's just how it goes ?). But I plan to start in on Jag CD after I finish the cartridges.

2. Ohh, I didn't know there was a variant, I'll have to look for it. What makes it different? I know there's a few other variants, like the 1mb and 2mb Cybermorph, and a "black" and "gray" cart Raidens. Also if they count, all the "Limited Edition" versions of most Telegames releases. I may start picking some up on the side just for fun, after I have at least one version of each release game.

3) Yeah, that's the cart edition of Iron Soldier 2. I don't consider it part of the set, but I picked it up anyways. 

 

That's awesome info, thanks! I've been trying to figure out if Towers II and Zero 5 were *ever* actually on the shelf or not, but I keep getting conflicting information. Nice to know at least one verifiable instance of someone who actually physically bought them in store.

 

With Zero 5, I know it's a long shot, but do you remember what holo sticker it had on it? (Round one, or little square one). Mine has the round sticker MyAtari puts on their new print runs. So I assume mine is a "newer" copy, but I'm not sure if those holo stickers were ever used in the past or if thats a thing only those guys do.

The original run of Zero 5 doesn't have any holographic stickers.

 

Iron Soldier II (CD), World Tour Racing (CD), Breakout 2000, Zero 5, Worms and Towers II were all available through Electronics Boutique and the few Atari retailers that were left, as well as directly from Telegames themselves.  Telegames was a licensed 3rd party publisher for the Jaguar and the deal for Telegames to release these games was made with Atari Corp. Most people agree that they are part of the complete Atari Jaguar retail collection.