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rensoup

good 100+hz RMT tunes ?

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Does anyone know of RMT tunes that demonstrate the use of 100+hz updates where there's a clear difference in sound quality compared to 50hz (I know there are some in the RMT songs folder) ?

 

I'm finding with the few 100+hz tunes that I converted to SAPR then dmsc'LZSS that they don't seem to benefit from the higher update frequency.

Basically I record the 100+hz RMT tune with Altirra (which only records at 50HZ) then play it back at 50hz and it sounds the same...

 

I talked to Ivop a while back about it and he mentioned that it really helps for making drums sound more digital which makes sense and perhaps could explain that any other type of instrument doesn't really sound upgraded because 200hz updates just aren't enough to make a difference?

 

 

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1 hour ago, rensoup said:

 

 

I'm finding with the few 100+hz tunes that I converted to SAPR then dmsc'LZSS that they don't seem to benefit from the higher update frequency.

Basically I record the 100+hz RMT tune with Altirra (which only records at 50HZ) then play it back at 50hz and it sounds the same...

 

Seems you encountered a logical problem? Ofcourse ALTIRRA is recording in the system speed. The player is changing POKEY's registers two times in one frame.

;)

 

Quote

 

I talked to Ivop a while back about it and he mentioned that it really helps for making drums sound more digital which makes sense and perhaps could explain that any other type of instrument doesn't really sound upgraded because 200hz updates just aren't enough to make a difference?

 

 

 

As everything is updated faster, any Instrument get's a more "digitized" sounding.

The 200 Hz Update is really adding deeper sounds to POKEY's sound registers. That's why drums sound much more punchy. There is already a distinguishable diference between 50 and 60 Hz.

The problem with faster speed is that the envelope is also "4 times shorter" in replay time. 

So it would have been better to have just one channel played faster, particular for the drums.

Edited by emkay

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1 hour ago, rensoup said:


Does anyone know of RMT tunes that demonstrate the use of 100+hz updates where there's a clear difference in sound quality compared to 50hz (I know there are some in the RMT songs folder) ?

 

I'm finding with the few 100+hz tunes that I converted to SAPR then dmsc'LZSS that they don't seem to benefit from the higher update frequency.

Basically I record the 100+hz RMT tune with Altirra (which only records at 50HZ) then play it back at 50hz and it sounds the same...

 

I talked to Ivop a while back about it and he mentioned that it really helps for making drums sound more digital which makes sense and perhaps could explain that any other type of instrument doesn't really sound upgraded because 200hz updates just aren't enough to make a difference?

 

 

Let me check my notes - I have several 200Hz RMT tracks which are absolutely stunning via good hi-fi system.

100Hz RMT Examples:
    Thrust (rmt128\songs\thrust.rmt)


150Hz RMT Examples:
    Sunset on the Moon (rmt128\songs\sunset_on_the_moon.rmt)

 

200Hz RMT examples:
    Hightide (rmt128\songs\hightide.rmt)
    Deluxe Dream (rmt119\rmt119\songs\tatqoo\deluxe8ch.rmt)
    Ninja Starts School (rmt119\songs\tatqoo\ninjas.rmt)
    Forgotten Sounds (rmt119\songs\tatqoo\forgotten_low.rmt)
    I think the entire rmt119\songs\tatqoo\ is 200Hz

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The thread puts  thing to the foreground ;)

 

When I encountered RMT the 1st time. I had a lot ideas. Raster was still developing it, But I recognized quickly that my request won't find the feedback that it deserved. 

 

I did that tune back in 2003 , just to show that POKEY's generators could be programmed with additional FX. 

 

 

 

 

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@emkay: Could you attach .rmt file?

 

Edit: OK, I took it from ASMA.

Edited by mono

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"Perplexity" http://asma.atari.org/asmadb/search.php?play=5222

uses 100Hz updates - also most noticeable in the drums section.

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3 hours ago, emkay said:

Seems you encountered a logical problem? Ofcourse ALTIRRA is recording in the system speed. The player is changing POKEY's registers two times in one frame.

;)

hmm.. you're just rewording what I said...

 

3 hours ago, emkay said:

As everything is updated faster, any Instrument get's a more "digitized" sounding.

The 200 Hz Update is really adding deeper sounds to POKEY's sound registers. That's why drums sound much more punchy. There is already a distinguishable diference between 50 and 60 Hz.

The problem with faster speed is that the envelope is also "4 times shorter" in replay time. 

So it would have been better to have just one channel played faster, particular for the drums.

yes it gets more punchy but it's difficult to tell the difference on a regular speaker with Pokey.

 

I remember Madmax tunes on the ST which did digi drums (at 200hz I think) and the difference was a lot clearer.

 

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2 hours ago, Stephen said:

200Hz RMT examples:
    Hightide (rmt128\songs\hightide.rmt)
    Deluxe Dream (rmt119\rmt119\songs\tatqoo\deluxe8ch.rmt)
    Ninja Starts School (rmt119\songs\tatqoo\ninjas.rmt)
    Forgotten Sounds (rmt119\songs\tatqoo\forgotten_low.rmt)
    I think the entire rmt119\songs\tatqoo\ is 200Hz

unfortunately these are all stereo I believe.

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39 minutes ago, Irgendwer said:

"Perplexity" http://asma.atari.org/asmadb/search.php?play=5222

uses 100Hz updates - also most noticeable in the drums section.

well it's audible indeed (especially on that weird sound at the beginning) but the cost/benefit is crazy...

 

I've included the 50hz version and the RMT one (seems to be 150hz ?)

perplexity_50hzLZSS.obx perplexity_RMT.obx

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So I've not heard a tune that would convince me it's worth going for a higher frequency... I can hear improved bass sometimes but on a regular speaker at least, you really must be paying attention to notice.

 

I was considering 100hz for SFX in PoP but it doesn't seem to be worth the hassle.

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6 hours ago, rensoup said:

So I've not heard a tune that would convince me it's worth going for a higher frequency... I can hear improved bass sometimes but on a regular speaker at least, you really must be paying attention to notice.

 

I was considering 100hz for SFX in PoP but it doesn't seem to be worth the hassle.

The 200Hz tones I posted say otherwise and not just because they are in stereo.It's hard to believe the tunes are coming from a 1979 machine.  I do have my Ataris hooked up to some pretty large gear, but honestly, the quality is insane.  It would of course not be worth it to try to squeeze that into a game, but for title screens or just listening to, why not dedicate as many cycles to improving the sound as needed?

 

Why are you not interested in the stereo tracks?

 

Apologies for the mess - was still moving in stuff at this point.

562830912_Latest08.thumb.jpg.fbbd806316b6afd9b7cd1496bbba8279.jpg

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11 hours ago, rensoup said:

So I've not heard a tune that would convince me it's worth going for a higher frequency... I can hear improved bass sometimes but on a regular speaker at least, you really must be paying attention to notice.

 

I was considering 100hz for SFX in PoP but it doesn't seem to be worth the hassle.

What type of FX were you searching for?

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1 hour ago, emkay said:

What type of FX were you searching for?

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/298914-unicorns-season-prince-of-persia-for-the-a8/?do=findComment&comment=4439170

 

Providing FX-sounds with a "sample-like" character like you did here:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/263812-screwing-with-pirates/?do=findComment&comment=3795456

 

could be beneficial...

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9 hours ago, Stephen said:

The 200Hz tones I posted say otherwise and not just because they are in stereo.It's hard to believe the tunes are coming from a 1979 machine.  I do have my Ataris hooked up to some pretty large gear, but honestly, the quality is insane.  It would of course not be worth it to try to squeeze that into a game, but for title screens or just listening to, why not dedicate as many cycles to improving the sound as needed?

 

Why are you not interested in the stereo tracks?

Stereo makes a much bigger difference from the few tunes I heard but it's not stock.

 

A stereo tune would potentially require twice as much space as well as twice the CPU time so it's complicated to justify when I'm already struggling for memory and disk space (while a 100hz tune would require twice the CPU time but probably a lot less space and would work on stock machines but the difference isn't nearly as big)

 

So far I've not had proof the more hz alone make a good difference...

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3 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

interesting sounds indeed... at 50hz too.

 

Miker's done most of the SFX already and they're fitting except for when the player gets hit (on the C64 there's a muffled "OMMF"  ) and when a falling tile hits the ground... I don't know if something similar is doable on the A8 (as far as I know the SFX aren't sampled on C64)

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