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Vocelli

Season 9 ~ Gold Medal Bracket

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:50 PM, TRB_MetroidTeam said:

Commando

8 medals

16400

 

1753311256_Commando(Atari2600)-16400(8)-byTRB.thumb.png.785bc3db994cb2528873201b704ea3e9.png

I'm not even going to post a score, not even going to get near that! Well done, well deserved win 🙂

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15 hours ago, Tempest said:

Indeed.  Seemed appropriate for a moderator.

We’re you a white deck player?

 

Have either of us beat OldmanG on any games this year...I think the only game I got close was Fantastic Voyage andCanyon Bomber.  It almost doesn’t matter who wins this matchup!!

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31 minutes ago, gbag said:

We’re you a white deck player?

 

Have either of us beat OldmanG on any games this year...I think the only game I got close was Fantastic Voyage andCanyon Bomber.  It almost doesn’t matter who wins this matchup!!

Green generally or green and white.  I did have a cool white deck that used that unblockable guys when they were new a legal.  Can't recall the ability though (shadow maybe?).

 

Nope and that's why the winner of match up is pointless.  I think maybe you can take him in better than I can.

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57 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Green generally or green and white.  I did have a cool white deck that used that unblockable guys when they were new a legal.  Can't recall the ability though (shadow maybe?).

 

Nope and that's why the winner of match up is pointless.  I think maybe you can take him in better than I can.

My favorite deck was a wrath of god deck with green creatures like birds of paradise and the lhurgoyf... the one with power and toughness equal to creatures in all graveyards!!!

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Green generally or green and white.  I did have a cool white deck that used that unblockable guys when they were new a legal.  Can't recall the ability though (shadow maybe?).

 

Nope and that's why the winner of match up is pointless.  I think maybe you can take him in better than I can.

 Like the Samurai say...."The best gift is a strong opponent".  I would rather a hard fought loss to a strong opponent any day.

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You can have it.  I quit.  This stopped being fun a long time ago.

 

My problem is that ZilchSr and OldManG are so far and beyond the rest of us that it doesn't matter who wins their particular bracket, they're never going to win the whole thing.  No one but Zilch or OldMan even have a chance.  They've dominated the contest the entire way, while the rest of us were usually way behind.  It's not their fault that they're that good, but it kind of takes the fun out of it knowing that you don't have a chance in the end.   Could I beat gbag?  I don't know, maybe (we seem to be pretty evenly matched TBH)?  But I just can't bring myself to put the effort in knowing that it's all going to be pointless in the end. 

 

I don't mean this to sound whiny and petty, but it's been obvious since the start that Zilch and OldManG were going to duke it out for the top spot while the rest of us were just along for the ride.

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6 hours ago, Tempest said:

You can have it.  I quit.  This stopped being fun a long time ago.

 

My problem is that ZilchSr and OldManG are so far and beyond the rest of us that it doesn't matter who wins their particular bracket, they're never going to win the whole thing.  No one but Zilch or OldMan even have a chance.  They've dominated the contest the entire way, while the rest of us were usually way behind.  It's not their fault that they're that good, but it kind of takes the fun out of it knowing that you don't have a chance in the end.   Could I beat gbag?  I don't know, maybe (we seem to be pretty evenly matched TBH)?  But I just can't bring myself to put the effort in knowing that it's all going to be pointless in the end. 

 

I don't mean this to sound whiny and petty, but it's been obvious since the start that Zilch and OldManG were going to duke it out for the top spot while the rest of us were just along for the ride.

Although I disagree that nobody else has a chance, this is a completely valid and fair criticism. Perhaps a modification of league format could be considered? Perhaps use colors or letters for two "Divisions" ("Expert" and "Casual") with certain criteria forbidding expert players and new players (you never know their skill level until theyve played a season) from competing in the casual division, but allow casual players to choose to compete in either division. Maybe have two gold brackets and two silver brackets with the winners being designated "Gold-A Winner", "Gold-B Winner", "Silver-A", "Silver-B", etc., simply promoting the "B" winners to "A" for subsequent seasons. 

 

I dont know ... just a thought.

Edited by ZilchSr
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I just went back and reviewed every season's results. It seems as though the thing Tempest has an issue with has, in fact, happened nearly every single season since HSC's inception. Every season *other than this one*, the leader alone has blown out the rest of the field, perhaps with the exception of Season 4 where the difference between 1st and 2nd was a bit over 100 pts, but even that season had the top 4 blow out the rest of the players, making it "not even close". Indeed, this Season has been the *most* competitive with only around 30 pts separating 1st and 2nd. Usually, the winner smoked the 2nd place player by 200 or more points. I'd even go so far as to suggest that this has been the first season in many years where the outcome was not a foregone conclusion with a likely winner predicted as early as Week 1. Again, you bring up good points, however, having just one person dominate has happened every season, if not two people, so this is nothing new, and should have been no surprise. When something happens every single time, we probably should come to expect it, no?

Edited by ZilchSr
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On 2/22/2020 at 5:22 AM, Jason_Atari said:

I'm not even going to post a score, not even going to get near that! Well done, well deserved win 🙂

Thanks Jason_Atari.

You played well during the tournament.

GG!

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Outstanding performances by OldManG and ZilchSr and great performances by everyone else also!! Personally I did not expect I would come anywhere close to getting this far when I first started this tournament, but I think playing against such high-skilled and great players has done nothing but improve my playing overall!

Love seeing these carts pushed to the limits by everyone and it has certainly encouraged me to try quite a few games that I probably never would have tried before, and also pushed me to learn even more on the few that I have played!! 

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58 minutes ago, Pat Larocque said:

Outstanding performances by OldManG and ZilchSr and great performances by everyone else also!! Personally I did not expect I would come anywhere close to getting this far when I first started this tournament, but I think playing against such high-skilled and great players has done nothing but improve my playing overall!

Love seeing these carts pushed to the limits by everyone and it has certainly encouraged me to try quite a few games that I probably never would have tried before, and also pushed me to learn even more on the few that I have played!! 

I second that, 100%!!!

I tried to improve my Spitfire score, and can't, so I guess this is a last minute "concession", but I'm certainly not bummed about it.

 

The fact is, OldManG and ZilchSr are quite literally very, VERY probably the very best two Atari 2600 players of all time, across all spans of time.

I'm proud to have competed with them, proud to have finished in the Gold my first time out, and proud to call them my friends.

 

The thing is-this is a competition, and the very best will finish on top. Others will finish in the final standings in an appropriate position to where they performed.

The top players in this years HSC have shared strategies quite a bit-I haven't really followed seasons past, but the videos OMG and Zilch have provided, to help others improve their scores, is unprecedented, I think.

 

ZilchSr explained EXACTLY how I could beat him on Spitfire Attack-gave me every ounce of knowledge he had.

I've always said, knowing and doing are two different things.

 

I've learned a LOT this HSC, found games I will play the rest of my life, Pressure Cooker, Dragon's Descent, and for me it has been a 100% positive experience!!!

 

I hate for anyone to be bummed over this experience-I'm tickled, again, to have made the Gold bracket, in last(8th)place, and frankly, anyone doing better than me kicked ass, because I know I did pretty good, and week after week I was in awe of the top four or five finishers, you Guys all did GREAT, and the folks in the other brackets are all deserving of their positions as well.

 

Everyone competing this year deserves a big thumbs up, it's been a lot of fun!!!

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11 hours ago, ZilchSr said:

I just went back and reviewed every season's results. It seems as though the thing Tempest has an issue with has, in fact, happened nearly every single season since HSC's inception. Every season *other than this one*, the leader alone has blown out the rest of the field, perhaps with the exception of Season 4 where the difference between 1st and 2nd was a bit over 100 pts, but even that season had the top 4 blow out the rest of the players, making it "not even close". Indeed, this Season has been the *most* competitive with only around 30 pts separating 1st and 2nd. Usually, the winner smoked the 2nd place player by 200 or more points. I'd even go so far as to suggest that this has been the first season in many years where the outcome was not a foregone conclusion with a likely winner predicted as early as Week 1. Again, you bring up good points, however, having just one person dominate has happened every season, if not two people, so this is nothing new, and should have been no surprise. When something happens every single time, we probably should come to expect it, no?

Yes that's always going to be an issue.  Even if you have pro and armature groups, how do you decide who is in which?   Although I can't touch either of you guys, many other people in this competition would consider me to be in the pro class because I came in third overall.  I can guarantee you my skills aren't on that level, but maybe they are compared to some others.  

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1 minute ago, Tempest said:

Yes that's always going to be an issue.  Even if you have pro and armature groups, how do you decide who is in which?   Although I can't touch either of you guys, many other people in this competition would consider me to be in the pro class because I came in third overall.  I can guarantee you my skills aren't on that level, but maybe they are compared to some others.  

A fair point and great question. The answer lies within the suggestion in my first post. Past winners and new people are put into the pro class, along with casual players who would choose to compete in the pro class. You wouldnt be prohibited from participating in the casual class until you won the "casual" Gold bracket.

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53 minutes ago, ZilchSr said:

A fair point and great question. The answer lies within the suggestion in my first post. Past winners and new people are put into the pro class, along with casual players who would choose to compete in the pro class. You wouldnt be prohibited from participating in the casual class until you won the "casual" Gold bracket.

That could be an idea.  Some sort of 'champions' bracket.  Otherwise wouldn't the same three or so people win the contest every time?  Or do winners generally not compete again?

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

That could be an idea.  Some sort of 'champions' bracket.  Otherwise wouldn't the same three or so people win the contest every time?  Or do winners generally not compete again?

Precisely! (Except we would have to include new players in the champ bracket ... dont want a sandbagger coming in here claiming they stink, then end up being so skilled that they make OldManG and myself look like first-rate rookie Atari 2600 no-playing chumps and end up winning the casual class by a few million points.)

 

Regarding your questions, it doesnt look like the answer to either is yes when we look at history.

 

Seasons 8, 7, and 6 saw the 1st place finisher end up also winning the Gold Bracket (OldManG, Leto, Oyama)

 

Seasons 1 through 5 saw splits, with S.Baz taking 1st in Season 5 and Darthkur winning the Gold Bracket, Season 4 with Northcoastgamer winning the season and Oyama winning the Gold bracket, and CaptainClassic taking Season 3 by a hair with Northcoastgamer winning the Gold Bracket.

 

Season 2 saw S.Baz taking the Gold Bracket with Northcoast gamer winning the season by a pinch (my earlier claim that the 30ish point [actually 40] difference between 1st and 2nd being the closest may be considered inaccurate. The final lead in Season 2 was by 17 pts., but the scoring was MUCH different and percentage-wise the differences were about the same, with a 2.8% diff this season and about a 1.9% diff in Season 2)

 

Season 1 had Deteacher taking the Gold Bracket and Gorfy winning the season.

 

Two things to note:

 

Oyama, S.Baz, and Northcoastgamer, are the only ones who have won either the season or the Gold Bracket more than once, with Oyama winning 1 season and 2 Gold brackets and Northcoastgamer winning 2 seasons and the Gold bracket once. Add OldManG to this if he wins the Gold Bracket this season, when he would then have 1 season win and 2 Gold bracket victories.

 

Of the 9 people mentioned above, all of them have played at least one season after their win. In fact, every one of them other than Northcoastgamer participated this season, and most have participated every season since they won.

 

Edited by ZilchSr
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On 2/23/2020 at 11:10 AM, ZilchSr said:

Although I disagree that nobody else has a chance, this is a completely valid and fair criticism. Perhaps a modification of league format could be considered? Perhaps use colors or letters for two "Divisions" ("Expert" and "Casual") with certain criteria forbidding expert players and new players (you never know their skill level until theyve played a season) from competing in the casual division, but allow casual players to choose to compete in either division. Maybe have two gold brackets and two silver brackets with the winners being designated "Gold-A Winner", "Gold-B Winner", "Silver-A", "Silver-B", etc., simply promoting the "B" winners to "A" for subsequent seasons. 

 

I dont know ... just a thought.

I think an easier option would selecting new games to play, it still may fall in favour of the leader but at least it may provide an even playing field. 
 

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On 2/23/2020 at 12:10 PM, ZilchSr said:

Although I disagree that nobody else has a chance, this is a completely valid and fair criticism. Perhaps a modification of league format could be considered? Perhaps use colors or letters for two "Divisions" ("Expert" and "Casual") with certain criteria forbidding expert players and new players (you never know their skill level until theyve played a season) from competing in the casual division, but allow casual players to choose to compete in either division. Maybe have two gold brackets and two silver brackets with the winners being designated "Gold-A Winner", "Gold-B Winner", "Silver-A", "Silver-B", etc., simply promoting the "B" winners to "A" for subsequent seasons. 

 

I dont know ... just a thought.

I have noticed certain players haven't played to their best (looking back at previous season results and scores) to avoid being in the gold medal bracket. These tournaments are just about trying to get your highest score and having a bit of fun. I would rather play to my absolute best and finish runner up in the gold medal bracket (like i did last year to oldmanG) than to play half assed so i can be in the silver or bronze medal bracket and win.

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9 hours ago, Jason_Atari said:

I have noticed certain players haven't played to their best (looking back at previous season results and scores) to avoid being in the gold medal bracket. These tournaments are just about trying to get your highest score and having a bit of fun. I would rather play to my absolute best and finish runner up in the gold medal bracket (like i did last year to oldmanG) than to play half assed so i can be in the silver or bronze medal bracket and win.

Its like getting a chance to play 1 on 1 with Michael Jordan.....you have little to no chance of winning....but its fun to be an underdog....it makes winning that much sweeter.  David and Goliath baby!!!

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9 hours ago, Jason_Atari said:

I have noticed certain players haven't played to their best (looking back at previous season results and scores) to avoid being in the gold medal bracket. These tournaments are just about trying to get your highest score and having a bit of fun. I would rather play to my absolute best and finish runner up in the gold medal bracket (like i did last year to oldmanG) than to play half assed so i can be in the silver or bronze medal bracket and win.

Seriously?  People are throwing games?  Maybe that's a sign that the bracket idea needs to be revamped a bit?

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On 2/9/2020 at 2:07 PM, Vocelli said:

 

4) JasonAtari - 

Vs

5) TRB_MetroidTeam - 8 Medals 16400 - Winner

PLAYING: Commando (Special Scoring: The most medals with the tie breaker of lowest score)

 

Hi Vocelli, it doesn't change the outcome, but my best performance was 13800 (8 medals) instead of 16400 ;)

 

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