In Your Opinion, What Is The Most Overrated Video Game System?

[derFunkenstein]

With Nintendo consoles, it really splits into two camps in the N64-and-later timeframe: either you love the first party library and therefore love the system, or you don't love the first-party library and therefore it sucks because third party support has been lacking (comparatively to the PlayStation and Xbox) for going on 20 years. 

 

Personally, I love first-party Nintendo games all across the ages. Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Mario Tennis, Zelda OoT and Majora's Mask, and Rare's games make an N64 with a memory expansion and a really great controller worth owning. That's true of the GameCube, Wii, and WIi U for me (though we just have a GC-backwards compatible Wii to play GC games). The Switch is starting to buck the trend, but still the first-party library is the best reason to have one. 

 

On the NES and SNES things are different because third-party support was so strong. You're not limited just to Nintendo's first-party library, but those systems excel based on the strength of what Nintendo could do. 

 

The only console that has sold really well that I don't particularly care for is the DS family (including 3DS and New 3DS). Maybe I'm just over handheld games (I only ever play the Switch on my TV, even, and I have very little installed on my phone), but I never really got drawn into that generation. The GBA was fantastic in the AGS-101 form. From a hardware perspective, the DS Lite is my favorite Game Boy, though, but I never really got into that system's library...just the GBA support. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by derFunkenstein

[Tanooki]

23 hours ago, derFunkenstein said:

With Nintendo consoles, it really splits into two camps in the N64-and-later timeframe: either you love the first party library and therefore love the system, or you don't love the first-party library and therefore it sucks

 

The only console that has sold really well that I don't particularly care for is the DS family (including 3DS and New 3DS). Maybe I'm just over handheld games (I only ever play the Switch on my TV, even, and I have very little installed on my phone), but I never really got drawn into that generation. The GBA was fantastic in the AGS-101 form. From a hardware perspective, the DS Lite is my favorite Game Boy, though, but I never really got into that system's library...just the GBA support. 

You pretty much nailed it on the post-SNES era up to date, and kind of even still to a lesser degree.  If you do like them or the games they lock down exclusive, you'll find in general plenty enough, more than enough games to hold one normal person over for an entire generation.  People here seem to have selective memory thinking it's normal for people to own like 50+ games for a system, and it's not.

 

And I feel you on the handheld front.  GB the entire line was better for me.  I've got a New3DS in mothball ready to be sold because I got fed up with it in the last couple of years barely bought stuff as little was appealing and what was got tired quick as enough were ports/conversions anyway.  DS though, you're right on the form factor, but wrong on the quality.  They never really bothered deeply with 3D on on it despite being N64-ish capable, it's more like a dual screen extension of what GBA was pulling off, and often that dual part wasn't play but inventory, maps, other making it easy stuff.  I see the DS being very GBA-like friendly, it's why when I found one last year I kept it around and got a few games again for it as the magic is still there.  3DS though, it runs amazing, great looking stuff, but it got thin on fun, not sure why.

[Steven Pendleton]

19 hours ago, Tanooki said:

3DS though, it runs amazing, great looking stuff, but it got thin on fun, not sure why.

Because devs stopped making games for it after the Switch became successful, and even before that it slowed down considerably. Meanwhile, it seems to me that Nintendo has silently cancelled 3DS production, which is why you can't find new ones anymore. No proof of this, but I imagine it's true otherwise there would still be new ones in stock at places like Amazon. Unfortunately, my d-pad's down button has stopped working, and opening it and cleaning it didn't help. I think I should send it to Nintendo to get it fixed before they stop servicing them.

[Magmavision2000]

21 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I've got a New3DS in mothball ready to be sold because I got fed up with it in the last couple of years barely bought stuff as little was appealing and what was got tired quick as enough were ports/conversions anyway. 

You should mod it and turn it into a portable emulation system. 

[Tanooki]

The 3DS got thin on fun before the Switch arrived.  After it did, then it dried up even worse to where like the last 4 games I tried were Pokemon Ultra Sun, the Metroid, M&L re-release, and then last the re-release of Luigi's Mansion.  Of all those I only kept Pokemon.  The Metroid one just didn't sit well with me, the other two I got severely bored with quite quickly, the last (Luigi) was redundant anyway as I can run the original in HDMI on my Cube.

 

Magma Yeah probably could, but I won't.  I'd never make the time to use it as I have not that much as it is.  I've been purging a lot of games/systems for years now, and even now with those i do keep I'm still dropping games I barely started or quit out on without good reason just so they don't sit unfinished as a painful reminder as it is.  I love to play, but my motivation to start is nearly zero and has been for a long while.  I've been thinking of playing Pokemon Shield for hours now, still haven't turned around and grabbed it. ?  So I'd rather have the money and apply it to a replacement PC or something useful.  Not that my high end (for 5 years ago and still is solid) laptop is failing, it's not, but it could.

[Steven Pendleton]

10 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

The 3DS got thin on fun before the Switch arrived.  After it did, then it dried up even worse to where like the last 4 games I tried were Pokemon Ultra Sun, the Metroid, M&L re-release, and then last the re-release of Luigi's Mansion.  Of all those I only kept Pokemon.  The Metroid one just didn't sit well with me, the other two I got severely bored with quite quickly, the last (Luigi) was redundant anyway as I can run the original in HDMI on my Cube.

 

Magma Yeah probably could, but I won't.  I'd never make the time to use it as I have not that much as it is.  I've been purging a lot of games/systems for years now, and even now with those i do keep I'm still dropping games I barely started or quit out on without good reason just so they don't sit unfinished as a painful reminder as it is.  I love to play, but my motivation to start is nearly zero and has been for a long while.  I've been thinking of playing Pokemon Shield for hours now, still haven't turned around and grabbed it. ?  So I'd rather have the money and apply it to a replacement PC or something useful.  Not that my high end (for 5 years ago and still is solid) laptop is failing, it's not, but it could.

I mentioned this before, but the 3DS definitely started to die prior to the Switch being released. I think the newest 3DS games I have are Shin Megami Tensei IV FINAL (which is pretty bad and not nearly as good as SMT IV, which also happens to be the best game on the system), Pokemon Sun and Moon, and Samus Returns. Samus Returns is one of the three remakes I have played that are actually worse than their original games (the others are Twin Snakes and Tales of Hearts R), and is among the most disappointing games I've ever played. I got to the end of Moon and I just don't care enough to finish it and never started Sun. I thought about getting Deep Strange Journey, but then I remembered that I don't like the original Strange Journey, so I passed.

 

I'm really not sure why, but the 3DS just suddenly ran out of steam and fell over dead for no apparent reason. Everything after about 2016~2017 was basically someone trying to resuscitate it and failing. The only thing I can think of is devs moving over to the Switch prior to its release so they could start working on a system that's way more powerful than the 3DS, which was like 6 years old when the Switch launched. The 3DS started with an incredibly weak library, then got some really great games, then vanished as if it was never there to begin with. I liked the 3DS, so it's kind of sad and disappointing to see its life end the way it did.

[CatPix]

I think it was kiinda predictible. The 3DS was built upon the DS line, which is from 2004. Sure the 3DS is more powerful than the DS, and the N3DS improve on, but basically, at core it's a 15 years old system with tiny screens (in resolution) a dual-display system that most developers don't know what to do with, and a 3D function that most people never got interested about.

Plus DS games are priced low so they sell (save for Nintendo games); that mean less money put into development. And ironically the skills to make a readible game into a 400*240 resolution are getting lost because.. well who, save for Nintendo still use such low resolution in 2020, or even back in 2016?

 

Also, the Wii U failure probably pulled many people from developing for Nintendo, assuming that they would either pull off the console market completely, or that it would force Nintendo in renewing their portable console (their strong point) early. The N3DS was a kind of improvement in that way, but of course as of 2016 the news about the Switch hybrid status was in the news so most developpers decided to halt any work on the 3DS to wait and see.

The Switch Lite is the ultimate nail in the 3DS coffin; it's on life support....

[Tanooki]

Steve you'll get no argument out of me on SMT4 vs Final or the Samus rehash, it just felt poor and I can't even explain why but even with the helpful map feature added I still find the old one more fun, it's smoother, sleeker, moves better not sure where to nail it down to other than being 3DS prettier and pretty watered down.  Truth is I still have the 3DS it's in a cardboard box packed up for a bundle sale, the other games in a plastic bin.  I could pull them and keep but I don't use it, and I also factory reset and delinked the thing so all my work is gone too on Ultra Sun and other stuff, and I haven't the time nor care to restart any of it.  3DS just fell apart as people knew as developers the Switch was coming and capable of at least a year in advance if not further back knowing what the Shield tablet could potentially do not crippled by android bloat and double bloat from nvidia tools that seriously eat up 50% of the system resources alone as they're pigs.  Switch uses like 320KB for its firmware, hence why people whine like babies about it being so basic, that was the point, total dedication of hardware to games.

 

But yeah Catpix, you're right after all.  The tech is old, older than you credit to be fair.  It's all ARM based and starting with the ARM7 with the GBA which was the co-pro of the DS, and DS became that of the 3DS all using the same basic instrutions only later backed with a 3D chipset for the 3DS family.  It as the same concept of what do you do with panel #2 as you said, and the rest.  By the time they ironed out the 3D using a basic cheapo head tracking camera no one cared anymore.  I cared, like about a year, then switched it off except when it seemed like a good idea.  I bounced the idea around for a time on that New 2DS because I liked the more rugged build and it was no loss otherwise than no 3D, but in the end I cared more for the DS as more creativity and good ideas with lesser hardware prevailed, just like their GB family days.  Nails, hammer, coffin yup that's the Switch lite entirely.  $200 for that, or nearly that on the New2DS/XL line that's nearly the same -- pointless.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, CatPix said:

The Switch Lite is the ultimate nail in the 3DS coffin; it's on life support....

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/3ds/upcoming

It's already dead, unless there is something that isn't listed here.

44 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Steve you'll get no argument out of me on SMT4 vs Final or the Samus rehash, it just felt poor and I can't even explain why but even with the helpful map feature added I still find the old one more fun, it's smoother, sleeker, moves better not sure where to nail it down to other than being 3DS prettier and pretty watered down.  Truth is I still have the 3DS it's in a cardboard box packed up for a bundle sale, the other games in a plastic bin.  I could pull them and keep but I don't use it, and I also factory reset and delinked the thing so all my work is gone too on Ultra Sun and other stuff, and I haven't the time nor care to restart any of it.  3DS just fell apart as people knew as developers the Switch was coming and capable of at least a year in advance if not further back knowing what the Shield tablet could potentially do not crippled by android bloat and double bloat from nvidia tools that seriously eat up 50% of the system resources alone as they're pigs.  Switch uses like 320KB for its firmware, hence why people whine like babies about it being so basic, that was the point, total dedication of hardware to games.

 

But yeah Catpix, you're right after all.  The tech is old, older than you credit to be fair.  It's all ARM based and starting with the ARM7 with the GBA which was the co-pro of the DS, and DS became that of the 3DS all using the same basic instrutions only later backed with a 3D chipset for the 3DS family.  It as the same concept of what do you do with panel #2 as you said, and the rest.  By the time they ironed out the 3D using a basic cheapo head tracking camera no one cared anymore.  I cared, like about a year, then switched it off except when it seemed like a good idea.  I bounced the idea around for a time on that New 2DS because I liked the more rugged build and it was no loss otherwise than no 3D, but in the end I cared more for the DS as more creativity and good ideas with lesser hardware prevailed, just like their GB family days.  Nails, hammer, coffin yup that's the Switch lite entirely.  $200 for that, or nearly that on the New2DS/XL line that's nearly the same -- pointless.

FINAL actually does have 1 huge improvement over IV: the COMP menu is WAY faster in FINAL than it is in IV. Seriously, go play FINAL for about 200 hours and then go play IV and you'll be like "what the hell is wrong with this menu?", I promise... If you can stand playing FINAL for that long, anyway. FINAL's world map music is also really damn awesome. IV's is even better, though, and both of them definitely have that early 90s sound that SMT needs. SMT is very much a product of the early 90s (SMT specifically, not Megami Tensei from 87) in all of the good/best ways, and IV keeps it that way while still being modern enough what with press turn and stuff. I really want to buy the OSTs for both games since the music in both of them is so damn good. The "rebalancing" in FINAL broke a lot of stuff without offering significant improvements in other areas and the story and most of the new characters are horrible. Samus Returns has very few redeeming features and that's about all I have to say about it. Mine came with a cool Metroid 2 Samus sprite keychain, though. I never really understood how anyone can get lost in Metroid 2, though. I just remember where I am at all times. Same with Metroid, for that matter.

 

We seem to have derailed this into a 3DS post-mortem somehow, though... maybe I should put it back on track or something!

 

On topic: I still stand by my assessment of the PS4, and I'm surprised that I think only a handful of others have mentioned it. It sold well, but if you don't care about Sony's first party stuff or other PS4 exclusives (and there are few of both of those, and even fewer that I am actually interested in), there is no real reason to choose it, especially if you have a PC and a PS3. I do, so my PS4 has less time spent playing games than any other console I own except maybe the Super Nt and SFC since I am not really into that system at all for some reason. I know my Mega Sg has more time spent playing games than my PS4 and the Mega Sg hasn't even been out for a year! PS4 is a BD player since Windows doesn't like BDs very much at all, unfortunately, and that's all I use it for. Still, I've spent probably close to 1000 hours or maybe more on it watching Star Trek over and over again.

[Tanooki]

Yes it has, and yes the PS4 and XB1 have been grossly overrated.  They really are exposed as lame closed old PCs if you get beyond owned IPs, and MS is a non-factor since they're Windows and that hits the PC.  Just like all that third party stuff in better shape too and for less $.  PS4 IPs went downhill to me, dumped it, no regrets.

[Steven Pendleton]

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Yes it has, and yes the PS4 and XB1 have been grossly overrated.  They really are exposed as lame closed old PCs if you get beyond owned IPs, and MS is a non-factor since they're Windows and that hits the PC.  Just like all that third party stuff in better shape too and for less $.  PS4 IPs went downhill to me, dumped it, no regrets.

Yeah, the lack of meaningful exclusives killed both of those for me. Forza seems pretty cool, though, and it seems that that is still Xbox-only and the PC Forza game seems to be just some free to play thing. I've thought about getting an Xbox just for Forza for a decade or so, but can't really justify buying a new system just for one game in a genre I almost never play. No guarantee that I would actually like Forza, either.

 

Kids these days complain about exclusives and say everything should be released on every platform. At that point, MS, Sony, and Nintendo might as well stop making separate systems at all, collaborate on a console that plays everything, and just call it "Video Game System". After this, there are only 2 platforms: PC and Video Game System (console). Mac gaming died 20 years ago when OS10 released and phone games are phone games. Prior to maybe 5th gen, same title but different system = totally different game. Jurassic Park comes to mind.

 

Like I said before, consoles are defined by their ability to play games that other systems don't have/can't play due to technical reasons, and also by their ability to stand out from other consoles in meaningful ways.

 

5th gen is probably the best example of this, with Saturn focusing on being a powerful 2D system, PS1 being a powerful 3D system, and N64 has Nintendo games. Now, look at 8th gen. We have PS4, which is basically a PC. We have Xbox One, which is basically a PC. We have Wii U, which I know almost nothing about despite owning one since like 2013~2014. I'm guessing it's more or less a PC that plays Nintendo games. Vita and 3DS are different enough to not need to review, since their libraries are mostly exclusive to each of them (discounting ports from older systems and emulation through Virtual Console and official PS1 emulation).

 

I completely forgot what point I wanted to make with all of this, but I already typed it, so it would be a waste to just delete it!

Edited February 29, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[zzip]

On 2/28/2020 at 12:38 PM, Tanooki said:

Yes it has, and yes the PS4 and XB1 have been grossly overrated.  They really are exposed as lame closed old PCs if you get beyond owned IPs, and MS is a non-factor since they're Windows and that hits the PC.  Just like all that third party stuff in better shape too and for less $.  PS4 IPs went downhill to me, dumped it, no regrets.

PS4 is pretty much my favorite console ever at this point.  I don't care that it's running AMD hardware, it has a much better user experience in terms of convenience than a Windows PC (which is my other gaming device).   It may not be the flashiest ever, but it just does a lot of things right.

 

As for exclusives,  I absolutely love Bloodborne, Dreams, Until Dawn and a few others.    Plus the VR add-on

 

 

[Tanooki]

Well outside of me enjoying Godzilla for a time, the system did nothing but disappoint me so I just have retained a super slim ps3 and the old psone+lcd combo for play now.  Those exclusives you mentioned didn't amaze me enough to keep it, and VR I have no interest in at all.

 

[+Cafeman]

Not much of the PS4s library interests me, but I have had a great time with the handful of exclusives I do like -  Spider-man, Dirt 4,   and ﹰHorizon ﹰZero ﹰDawn.  Also enjoyed these non exclusives a lot - SW Fallen Order, Shenmue III, Sonic Mania. And about 10 other downloads and retro games. So I enjoy the games kn PS4,  and graphically it is quite good but I'm still surprised at frame drops and other graphical glitches.  Sega had 60fps on their 3D capable consoles 20 years ago, i thought surely all games would run at 60 by now. Nope. I passed on the more expensive Pro , which was already out when I bought my PS4, because of reports of loud fan noise, plus I'm fine with 1080p. My PS4 slim is a very quiet system, unlike my x360 which is annoyingly loud.  And I really like the feel of the PS4 controller. 

[Video]

The 3ds was dying LONG before the switch showed up. The only games I have that are less than 5 years old for it are basically Pokemon games. I loved the idea, and built in 3d, but the two high points for that barely/never came out. I was a day one buyer because I was expecting the fps and adventure games, and they simply never came. andand no, it's not a case of it couldn't do it, I've got an adventure game on ds, and half a dozen or more fps on ds AND gba.

[zzip]

On 3/3/2020 at 1:39 PM, Cafeman said:

Not much of the PS4s library interests me, but I have had a great time with the handful of exclusives I do like -  Spider-man, Dirt 4,   and ﹰHorizon ﹰZero ﹰDawn.  Also enjoyed these non exclusives a lot - SW Fallen Order, Shenmue III, Sonic Mania. And about 10 other downloads and retro games. So I enjoy the games kn PS4,  and graphically it is quite good but I'm still surprised at frame drops and other graphical glitches.  Sega had 60fps on their 3D capable consoles 20 years ago, i thought surely all games would run at 60 by now. Nope. I passed on the more expensive Pro , which was already out when I bought my PS4, because of reports of loud fan noise, plus I'm fine with 1080p. My PS4 slim is a very quiet system, unlike my x360 which is annoyingly loud.  And I really like the feel of the PS4 controller. 

Because the priority for developers is to push visuals as far as they will go instead of going for 60fps.  Most gamers don't actually care about 60fps except in a few genres like FPS or racing.

[Steven Pendleton]

11 minutes ago, zzip said:

Because the priority for developers is to push visuals as far as they will go instead of going for 60fps.  Most gamers don't actually care about 60fps except in a few genres like FPS or racing.

High frame rate is good, but stability is more important. Peace Walker is perfectly fine at 20 FPS.

[+Cafeman]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

Because the priority for developers is to push visuals as far as they will go instead of going for 60fps.  Most gamers don't actually care about 60fps except in a few genres like FPS or racing.

That’s how I am actually. HZD is 30 FPS, but is mostly a very stable 30 and that is fine by me! But 60 would have been jaw dropping. 

[+wongojack]

How do you even tell the difference?  I don't get it.  I have literally never noticed the frame rate unless it impacts gameplay with a delay and then I am usually rushing to lower the frame rate to compensate.  What is it that would be better about a game just because it is running at 60 flip flops?

[zzip]

1 hour ago, wongojack said:

How do you even tell the difference?  I don't get it.  I have literally never noticed the frame rate unless it impacts gameplay with a delay and then I am usually rushing to lower the frame rate to compensate.  What is it that would be better about a game just because it is running at 60 flip flops?

There's no real advantage to 60 unless there is fast action. 

 

Some people get so used to 60fps, 144fps or higher on PC that they claim that 30fps feels like a "slideshow". 

 

For me, 30 is what we're used to seeing from TV/Cinema, and higher framerates in story games feels unnatural.

[+Cafeman]

There was one time I preferred 30fps over 60fps, on Working Designs' Sega Ages Outrun game for Saturn. It is 30fps by default and it a perfect port.  But you can unlock smooth mode which is obviously a super-smooth 60fps!  But the 60fps refresh rate actually makes the racing action appear slower somehow and is 'too much' !  I prefer the original 30fps for that game. 

 

I'm not a frame-rate snob at all though.  I've found that after a few minutes, my eyes and mind adjust to older games with slower refresh rates and its still fun.  But for a racing game, sub-30 is not good and I've seen that a lot, it kind of ruins the effect.   

 

The weirdest modern-day effect I've seen a few times, and I've only seen this on my newer PS4 games, is when textures pop-in late. Star Wars: Fallen Order has a few late loads of textures and geometry and it is weird.  Reminds me of Dreamcast Shenmue's street passerby fading in and out.  I thought with the power , speed and memory of modern systems that the devs could prevent these types of things. But nope. 

[Tanooki]

9 hours ago, zzip said:

There's no real advantage to 60 unless there is fast action. 

 

Some people get so used to 60fps, 144fps or higher on PC that they claim that 30fps feels like a "slideshow". 

 

For me, 30 is what we're used to seeing from TV/Cinema, and higher framerates in story games feels unnatural.

That pretty much makes you like most people, normal.  I'm happy with a very locked in solid 30fps.  Now if the game is designed around so it feels smooth on lesser like 20 or something a bit higher, and it's consistent, that's just fine too in most cases.  But the eye can only see so many frames a second, so when you get into 60, 120+ whatever some people feel makes a big difference, maybe for a few it does as they're super human in that respect.  But I kind of feel it's more of something they mentally convinced themselves make the difference beyond that 60 barrier at least.  WHile you may not see it 60, when solid and only so, can give more fluidity to something that's really twitchy and all over like a FPS game or racing, or even flight sim/combat flight sims.

 

Also something fair to point out, it's not really about the FPS entirely, a large factor is also frame time.  You can have a game locked at 30fps with a frame time locked there too that never strays or at least no worse than a frame or two (28-29 over 30) and then you can get the same game on say a PS4/XB1 there shooting for 60 but often wobbles into the 40s or retains near/at 60 but has a frame time that drops into the 40s, and the game feels like an inconsistent jittery mess and screws with you playing.  Digital Foundry makes very good cases for this when they analyze games.  There have been situations, such as Dark Souls on Switch where it actually is the most fluid game between that and the Sony/MS choices because it is solid locked 30fps/frametime the others aren't.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Tanooki

[Steven Pendleton]

11 hours ago, wongojack said:

How do you even tell the difference?  I don't get it.  I have literally never noticed the frame rate unless it impacts gameplay with a delay and then I am usually rushing to lower the frame rate to compensate.  What is it that would be better about a game just because it is running at 60 flip flops?

Go play the PS2 version of MGS 2 and then go play the PS2 version of MGS 3. Big difference. PS2 MGS 2 runs at 60 and PS2 MGS 3 runs at 30. Vita versions both run at 30 and PS3 versions both target 60 and frequently fail to hit that, so the original PS2 versions are the best example of this.

 

Alternatively, I mentioned Peace Walker. PSP version runs at 20 while the PS3 version runs at 60. Go try some of those and you will notice a difference.

 

All versions of all of these are perfectly playable on all systems, though. I have heard MGS 2 PC version kind of sucks, though I haven't played it because it's kind of rare and expensive while still being worse than the various console versions.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Steven Pendleton