Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 So, one question: it is possible to build it? And if it - can you write method of build it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sikor said: So, one question: it is possible to build it? And if it - can you write method of build it? Sure. Take the existing 1088XEL design and rework it so that it isn't completely centred around the Ultimate 1MB. Then rebrand it (since it will no longer be a 1088XEL in name, character or functionality), get the PCB made, and assemble it. Easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 @flashjazzcat: A very funny and ironic answer. My question was purely theoretical - Ultimate is quite expensive for Polish conditions, which does not mean that it is out of reach. Its functionality is unnecessary for me - for example, I do not use Sparta Dos X, I care more about the functionality of the equipment itself, because it is easier to transport it to various types of parties. An answer would be enough: it can't be: P To sum up - without Ultimate I won't put in so much in the subject. Thank you for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Sikor said: Its functionality is unnecessary for me I doubt this, since U1MB provides the MMU and OS ROM. But even if you don't care about SDX and can work a standard MMU and OS ROM into the system, U1MB runs the Compact Flash HDD, provides the high speed SIO driver, provides extended PORTB memory, and controls various integrated devices (stereo audio, VGate, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 O.K As i wrote - now all is clear, for this while it works only with U1MB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 So no OS alternative then? Pity a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, miker said: So no OS alternative then? It uses a stock Atari OS... or any OS you wish. Or is this not what you're asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) I think it could be possible to design a simple PCB with just the standard MMU and BASIC and OS ROMs, which interfaces with a standard 1088XEL motherboard, similar to how a U1MB would do. It won't be a 1088XEL as it has only 64kB on the mainboard, but it should be fully functional as an 800XL replacement, with some extra's, like IDE and MIDI. Edited February 11, 2020 by ivop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 OK, shortened it too much... Pity that you require presence of Ultimate for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 @ivop: good idea if it will be possible. It will be enought to me, but now we have no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, ivop said: like IDE IDE connector, yes, but no means to drive it without a custom operating system which somehow includes an APT driver (the U1MB implementation of which consumes 8K of ROM and requires 1K of RAM). It's like all these things happen by magic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Bummer to hear that the U1MB devices are cost prohibitive. The 1088 XEL (and subsequently XLD) were designed from the ground up around the U1MB to save board space by requiring no MMU, DRAM refresh logic, etc. I am not a hardware designer so I cannot say with any certainty if a stock 64kB system could be built by the aforementioned substitution of a standard OS ROM. Also keep in mind, that both 1088s feature the TK-II keyboard/mouse upgrade and some of that functionality was specifically tailored with having the U1MB present also. There are some macros for rebooting the machine, entering the setup menu, etc. I am not sure if that would present another obstacle to doing such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 There was an U1MB-free Mini ATX reimplementation of the Atari 8-bit floating around the Polish forums last year. 128K RAM and stock chips. Did that project not take off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 If you are only seeking 800XL/XE comparability then surely it would be better to just buy that machine? The 1088XEL/XLD are cost prohibitive in general for some due to everything that goes into them, but they were designed to be far more than a stock machine. If there is a desire for a stock Atari machine in a new motherboard layout then I think someone else will have to step up to do the layout and testing and at the end of the day buying a bog standard machine would still work out cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: There was an U1MB-free Mini ATX reimplementation of the Atari 8-bit floating around the Polish forums last year. 128K RAM and stock chips. Did that project not take off? I thought I had seen something about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: IDE connector, yes, but no means to drive it without a custom operating system which somehow includes an APT driver (the U1MB implementation of which consumes 8K of ROM and requires 1K of RAM). It's like all these things happen by magic. I was thinking it could work with a SpartaDOS X cartridge and your IDE.SYS driver? But anyway, it would be a pain and not nearly as useful. Not booting of PBI D1: for example. Edited February 11, 2020 by ivop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 @Stephen: in point for now. Thanks for info @flashjazzcat: i dont know about this project. Can you attach link for it? I know only about new board for XE and XL series for standard cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, orpheuswaking said: If you are only seeking 800XL/XE comparability then surely it would be better to just buy that machine? The 1088XEL/XLD are cost prohibitive in general for some due to everything that goes into them, but they were designed to be far more than a stock machine. It is simple: 1088XEL is smaller than standard Atari. If I go to party, smaller is better for me. I have 10" monitor, and now my 65XE is biggest thing in my luggage. And YES, i go with Atari, not PC with emulator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ivop said: I was thinking it could work with a SpartaDOS X cartridge and your IDE.SYS driver? It can... but with SDX, you have already introduced one of the already rejected (as superfluous) components of U1MB. And the SDX driver is barely usable without extended memory... and so on. 6 minutes ago, Sikor said: i dont know about this project. Can you attach link for it? I know only about new board for XE and XL series for standard cases Had to hunt around, but I believe this is the thread: http://www.atari.org.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=14760 Edited February 11, 2020 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 @flashjazzcat: thanks, I totally forget about this project. I wrote to xAngel now about it. In other hand I have one 1088XEL board, so probably i mount it some time. Thanks for info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Just now, Sikor said: Thanks for info. No problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZuluGula Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 The other option would be EclaireXL. Considering what it has for around $250 build, I think it's the best bung for the bucks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, ZuluGula said: The other option would be EclaireXL. Considering what it has for around $250 build, I think it's the best bung for the bucks. The Turbo CPU options along with accelerated ANTIC/GTIA make this a very attractive option. Also, the native HDMI out just stomps everything the native hardware can do, VBXE2 included. All that said - it is an emulated machine, albeit a probably 99.99% accurate machine. I love mine. Please don't lose sight of the fact that the U1MB is probably the single best upgrade to come out for our 8-bit machines that I can recall, and I've been using mine since 1982 (back when I could throw a football over that mountain). It, and Incognito for the 800 really made using these machines still fun in 2020, and productive too. SDX with 1MB and a decent HDD, with Sparta Commander and Last Word - stomps any CP/M machine I ever used. I never use a machine without it these days - my 1088XEL, XLD, and 130XE all have them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 hours ago, ivop said: I think it could be possible to design a simple PCB with just the standard MMU and BASIC and OS ROMs, which interfaces with a standard 1088XEL motherboard, similar to how a U1MB would do. It won't be a 1088XEL as it has only 64kB on the mainboard, but it should be fully functional as an 800XL replacement, with some extra's, like IDE and MIDI. Yes this is quite possible to do, and in it's simplest form it could simply be an alternative plug-in board for the U1MB. I'm guessing if at least 5 boards were built, which seems to be the minimum for many of the PCB manufacturers, that the parts cost per board would likely come in around $15-20 for all of the required components and even less so if you already have a donor MMU, Basic and OS ROM. I did kick around this idea over a year ago, but never pursued it. 8 hours ago, Sikor said: I do not use Sparta Dos X If you don't want to use SDX, but still wanted to utilize the XEL-CF3 add-on board, I suppose you could use a patched version of the MyIDE OS and point it to the correct IDE register locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 hours ago, mytek said: Yes this is quite possible to do, and in it's simplest form it could simply be an alternative plug-in board for the U1MB. I'm guessing if at least 5 boards were built, which seems to be the minimum for many of the PCB manufacturers, that the parts cost per board would likely come in around $15-20 for all of the required components and even less so if you already have a donor MMU, Basic and OS ROM. I did kick around this idea over a year ago, but never pursued it. Hmm, interesting, if you come back to this idea let me know. I will gladly buy one or two plates for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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