shear_xear Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Hi. So I just finished installing a UAV mod in one of my 6 Switch Atari 2600s and the colors are super bright, and just don't look right. I lifted pin 6 on the TIA and all of the wirres are attached exactly as pictured in the instructions. Is there an additional step that I missed? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Photos of your installation and your display showing the the “super bright” output might be useful to help diagnose. It’s been Byan’s suggestion to lift pin 6 to remove the 820 ohm saturation boost resistor from the signal since the early days of the first public UAV, the rev C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 Hi. Here are pictures of what I have so far. Lifted pin 6 (checked without it lifted and got only black and white and crazy lines when in color mode). The background green is super light compared with the usual green you’d get. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Color saturation looks pretty accurate to me. I think you just need to tone down the brightness on your TV. Wait..I've not installed one of these in a 2600 yet, but why would the COL in need to be wired when there is already a separate color input for the TIA near the main ground? Is that where the 2600 colorburst line should be attached where it says T. COL? That is where we attach it on the 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Color saturation looks pretty accurate to me. I think you just need to tone down the brightness on your TV. Wait..I've not installed one of these in a 2600 yet, but why would the COL in need to be wired when there is already a separate color input for the TIA near the main ground? Is that where the 2600 colorburst line should be attached where it says T. COL? That is where we attach it on the 7800. Here is the same tv displaying Pitfall via composite from a 4 Switch I did. I believe the T. COL is only for the 7800, and not used with the 2600. I did not use it when I installed the UAV on the 4 switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Well that seems odd that T. COL is only used on the 7800 since that literally stands for TIA color and the other COL is for the Maria colorburst? Just out of curiosity, what happens if you connect that line to T. Col instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 TCOL is only used for 7800 installations. COL input is the proper input for a 2600. As @-^CrossBow^- says, saturation looks fine here. You can tweak the color pot a bit to get better differentiation between shades of green/yellow in the bottom half of the playfield but that may be about the best you can get. 1 minute ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Well that seems odd that T. COL is only used on the 7800 since that literally stands for TIA color and the other COL is for the Maria colorburst? This was added for 7800 installations in rev D of the UAV. Prior versions didn't have a separate input for TIA color and people found it confusing to install in 7800's. COL in on the terminal block should be fine for UAV installations in a 2600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Well that seems odd that T. COL is only used on the 7800 since that literally stands for TIA color and the other COL is for the Maria colorburst? Just out of curiosity, what happens if you connect that line to T. Col instead? Here is the color going into the T.COL instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: TCOL is only used for 7800 installations. COL input is the proper input for a 2600. As @-^CrossBow^- says, saturation looks fine here. You can tweak the color pot a bit to get better differentiation between shades of green/yellow in the bottom half of the playfield but that may be about the best you can get. This was added for 7800 installations in rev D of the UAV. Prior versions didn't have a separate input for TIA color and people found it confusing to install in 7800's. COL in on the terminal block should be fine for UAV installations in a 2600. Interesting. As I said, I've not installed or had a need to install a UAV into a 2600 since most people are content to use their 7800s for both. I thought the resistant values and such were different between these color bursts though? I know they are on the Sounby and Magic Knight installs so you can't mix them up when running those lines. Still curious to know what it would look like if one were to use the T. COL... gonna make me test that this weekend I guess LOL! And that gets answered as I was typing this LOL! Well, that certainly doesn't look right no. I'm guessing the other components in the mix on the 7800 is the reason here. Mushroom effect there... In looking at that pic...aside from the rainbow bright puke in the center, the rest of it looks on point as far as the colors, saturation, and brightness though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Now I'm curious - I've got a rev C in my 2600 and one of my 1200XLs, and rev D's in another 1200XL, my 1088XEL, my 1088XLD, my 5200 and my 7800. I need to open one of the machines with a Rev D's and see if they share a common lead. It was my understanding - perhaps incorrect - that COL and T.COL shared a lead since MARIA and TIA should not both be generating a modulated colorburst signal at the same time when playing 7800 games. After further thought, I think the OP should give it a try - even if doesn't improve the picture, it won't damage anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: After further thought, I think the OP should give it a try - even if doesn't improve the picture, it won't damage anything. He did...he replied with a screen shot just above my reply asking to do that. They can't share the same line because the TIA introduces interference on the Maria colorburst. That is the whole reason for the TIA color kill switch required on the older LHE mods because it wasn't isolating that fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 So I decided to just run the lines directly to the TIA and now everything looks perfect. I haven’t tested the S-Video output yet, but this seems to work out a lot better than the picture version C approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Can you please share a pic of what you ended up doing? I'm having exactly the same problems with my 2600 6 switch. The colors are extremely bright. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 Hi. Did you lift the leg on the TIA (pin 6)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Sort of? I pulled R213 instead and connected Co In to the right side to match the diagram/pictures. From what I can see from the schematic, TIA pin 6 only connects to the left side of R213, so it should effectively be disconnected... unless I'm thinking of it incorrectly. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Any other thoughts on what I could try? I'm interested in what you mean when you say you ran the lines directly to the TIA. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 So this is what I did. S to leg two, 2 to leg five, 3 to leg seven, 1 to leg eight, and Co to leg nine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Thank you! I'll give this a shot. Looks like you used CAT3/5/6 wire to make the connections? I'm using 22 gauge solid core. What you have is probably easier to work with. And did you still lift pin 6 on the TIA? Edited November 23, 2022 by BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shear_xear Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 12 hours ago, BriGuy_the_AtariGuy said: 1 hour ago, BriGuy_the_AtariGuy said: Thank you! I'll give this a shot. Looks like you used CAT3/5/6 wire to make the connections? I'm using 22 gauge solid core. What you have is probably easier to work with. And did you still lift pin 6 on the TIA? Yes, I have always lifted pin 6 with the six switch models. Hopefully this approach works for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 I actually did one of these a few months back but I attached the wiring from the TIA from different places than I've seen listed. There are three unused vias in a line under the two resistors there by the 4050. I used those vias to attach to most of the needed pins. There was another resistor just to the right of where the Co In is that I took the color signal from. It is directly attached to pin 9 of the TIA. However, what you don't see in this pic because I took this before knowing this. Is that my colors were off. But all I had to do was lift the right side leg of R213 that sits below the TIA basically between the 6 and 9 pins. The right side is attached to pin 9 and that removed the color tinting issue on this one. I could have attached the wires from similar points off those resistors as most have, but since I was mounting the UAV in that empty spot above the TIA, I wanted to keep the wiring short and as direct as possible. Running the output wiring under and through the cartridge port meant that I didn't have to drill any holes into the RF shielding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Thank you both for your help! I got the color issue resolved with shear_xear's suggestion. Unfortunately I ran into an issue when hooking up the IAB, though. Most of the time everything is fine, but when super low register audio plays (like during the beginning of frogger), I get some strange static vertically on the screen. When that note (or notes) aren't playing, I don't see it. The static goes away if I disconnect the audio rca jack (audio is playing, just not being output). The only time the audio and video lines come near each other is right before the output jacks. Have you seen this before? Let me know if I should post this to a different thread. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Here's a video of what I'm talking about. Did you use the IAB or something else? 20221127_223452_1.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 @BriGuy_the_AtariGuy I've never seen anything like that from any UAV installs I've done and at this point I've now done over a dozen of these in the past few months. I don't use the IAB at all and if you look at the pic I posted above on the h6 install I did, I actually took the audio from off an used via next to C210. It isn't really any different than just taking it straight off the TIA for the most part.On 4 switchers I do something similar from again another unused via on those later revisions. I do however, try and use the ground from the UAV itself whenever I can. Usually, I will use the ground near the chroma/luma outputs for the s-video, and then use the ground next to the composite output for composite and audio. The only issue I've seen on both 6 switch and 4 switch consoles even through a good RF output, is that when pressing the fire button, I've sometimes seen a bit of screen noise appear. It has been reported before and does seem to be more of an issue on the 6 swichers vs 4 but I've seen it on both models stock and otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Thank you for the info! I've seen the use of that unused via before. I'll try that and use a ground from the UAV instead and see if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy_the_AtariGuy Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Well, I removed the IAB and ran a line directly from the unused via next to C210 to audio out and am using the same ground as the video (composite install). Unfortunately, I'm getting the same result, might even be a little worse. I found a modding thread for stereo sound that takes audio directly off of the TIA pins 12 and 13, listed here: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/199461-atari-2600-stereo-mod/ I'm almost tempted to do this, but bringing the right and left back together before outputting to the TV. Have you done this before? I'm just so confused because everything works great on RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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