Disk drive not working...

[cbmeeks]

I have a single 5 1/4" floppy (SA400L I believe).  I also have the disk controller, obviously, in my PEB.

 

When I try to run the Disk Manager (any version 1 - 3) and perform any tests, I get "DISK ERROR 16".  Which I believe means no drive present.

 

Now, when I power on the PEB, the drive LED comes on and makes a click...like the heads are clamping down.  Then the LED goes off.

I power on the TI and it does it again.

 

On the disk drive end of the cable, I am using the old 5 1/4" connector.  On the controller end, I am using the 34 pin "newer" connector.  Sorry, I'm not sure what the actual names are.

 

So the cable I have is 34 pin to TWO 5 1/4" connectors.  One has a twist.  I've tried both.

Sorry, I'm running out the door but I can include pics, etc. later if needed.  Just hoping someone knows of something stupid I am doing.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[+arcadeshopper]

No twist..

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[tuf]

Not trying to hijack this thread but I was talking with Arcadeshopper last night about an error 41 I'm getting when formatting disks.  I'm going to attempt to clean and lube the drive tonight and see if I get anywhere with it.  Might help with your issue as well.

[rietveld]

Error 16 is the 'no drive' 

 

Do u have any other 5 1/4 drive to try?   It will work with pretty much any full or half height 

[+Lee Stewart]

As @arcadeshopper mentioned, no twist. For one drive, ensure you use the connector without the twist and that the drive jumper/dipswitch on the drive PCB is on drive 0 (or drive 1, whichever number is lowest), which will select for DSK1.

 

...lee

Edited February 23, 2020 by Lee Stewart
clarification

[cbmeeks]

Thanks for the suggestions.  So, I made sure the twist was not used.  Still same thing.

I downloaded the manual for the Shugart 400L and, if I am reading this correct, the jumpers should be set correctly for a single drive system and drive 1.

 

 

 

 

So I believe "HL and "1" are closed (drive 1).  2,3,MX,4,MH are OPEN.

 

When I attempt to test the drive, I hear the heads (or something) clamp down pretty hard.  But no LED.  Then error 16.  If I CLOSE "MH", the same thing happens but this time, I get the LED coming on when it's performing a test.

 

The drive has been properly cleaned and lubed.

 

The only other drives I have are 1.2 MiB floppy drives which I'm pretty sure won't work. 

 

I have no idea if this drive actually works.  Not sure how to test it other than maybe see if it works in my 486.

 

Oh, here is the snippet of the manual:

 

 

[Fritz442]

Just to check your floppy controller, do you have a 1.44 3-1/2 floppy drive lying around?

If so, use a straight cable and the drive will be drive #"2". Be sure to cover the hole on 

the bottom right of the 1.44 disk before formatting it.

[cbmeeks]

OK, good news and bad news.

 

I think the culprit is that Shugart drive.  That loud "clanking" sound when the drive heads clamp down sounds really loud.  So I think the jumper settings are either wrong and/or the drive is just bad.

 

Next I put a 3.5" 1.44 MiB drive in, located an old Amiga floppy and chose 40 tracks, single sided and single density and it formatted!

Not only that, it passed the diagnostic tests.  Which means the controller is good.

 

 

 

Next, I dug out an old 5 1/4" drive (1.2 MiB) and sure enough, it worked as well!

 

 

 

 

Naturally, the next move was to load the only TI-99/4A software I own on floppy disk. 

 

 

So I am super excited that after 38 YEARS, I finally have a floppy drive setup for my TI-99/4A.  No more cassette saving for me!  hahaha

 

Now, I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed that my Shugart drive isn't working.  I really wanted a single full height drive in that PEB.

 

I do happen to have TWO 5 1/4" drives that are half-height.  So I guess I could, in theory, install both of them.  But they are beige in color.  Not that it matters but I liked the look of the black face plate.

 

Which brings me to some more questions.

 

1)  Should I keep looking for a full-height drive to finally fulfill my dream PEB?

 

2)  Should I use my last two 5 1/4" drives that are the wrong color.  If so, would DSK2 work with the "twist" in the cable?

 

3)  Should I do something crazy like a 5 1/4" drive and a 3.5" too?

 

Opinions welcomed!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+OLD CS1]

20 minutes ago, cbmeeks said:

1)  Should I keep looking for a full-height drive to finally fulfill my dream PEB?

 

2)  Should I use my last two 5 1/4" drives that are the wrong color.  If so, would DSK2 work with the "twist" in the cable?

 

3)  Should I do something crazy like a 5 1/4" drive and a 3.5" too?

1) Not unless you are worried about aesthetics.  The full-height drives also draw more power.

2) If you want two 5 1/4", then yes.  As for the "twist," you do not want to use a cable with the twist.  Not sure of the ratio, but some portion of them only swap DS0 and DS1 signals but the rest swap more than just those.

 

3) Sure.  It would give you the ability to handle standard old 5 1/4" disks, as well as work with newer 3 1/2" disks.  With the caveat that the controller in use will dictate how much of the disk you actually use.  I am not certain if you can use an FM (single-density) controller with a 3 1/2" mechanism, which would only give you 180k DSSD on a 720k disk, a DSDD controller can use 360k, and a DSDD controller with an 80-track mod will let you use all 720k.  (I have only use a DSDD controller with my 3.5" so others can chime in with their experiences.)

[+arcadeshopper]

I have a couple full height drives... If you really want one

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[cbmeeks]

I appreciate the offer but I think I will either use two half-height or see if I can repair the Shugart.

 

Thanks

[Tursi]

3.5" drive works fine on the TI controller to a maximum of 180k (unmodified)... but don't use an HD drive. I had issues with that.

 

[+InsaneMultitasker]

You can always do what others have done before you -- leave that floppy drive hanging over the edge of the PEB and use the alcove for storage!    

 

Half-heights are much nicer than the full height unless you want the latter for nostalgic reasons.

 

And there are other options you can explore for drives such as the Lotharek floppy emulator. 

 

Edit:  Does that Shugart have a spot for a terminating resistor pack?  Seems to me there should be one installed when the drive is alone in the system.

 

[cbmeeks]

8 hours ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

Edit:  Does that Shugart have a spot for a terminating resistor pack?  Seems to me there should be one installed when the drive is alone in the system.

 

Hmm.  I'm not quite sure I know what you mean.  Although I have the manual, it's pretty light on schematics and details.  It has a socket in for "shunt" type connections which the manual says is for selecting the drive number.  However, it also has an empty socket next to it that I have no idea what it's for.

 

My gut feeling tells me the drive is probably OK.  I just don't have it configured properly.

 

I know there's no practical reason to use a full height drive in 2020.  I will only drag out the PEB for nostalgia anyway.  ?

 

 

[+Lee Stewart]

29 minutes ago, cbmeeks said:

Hmm.  I'm not quite sure I know what you mean.  Although I have the manual, it's pretty light on schematics and details.  It has a socket in for "shunt" type connections which the manual says is for selecting the drive number.  However, it also has an empty socket next to it that I have no idea what it's for.

 

That next-door socket is, indeed, for the resistor pack—and you do need it on the last drive in the chain, which is what a single drive is.

 

...lee

[cbmeeks]

7 minutes ago, Lee Stewart said:

hat next-door socket is, indeed, for the resistor pack—and you do need it on the last drive in the chain, which is what a single drive is.

Ah!  So, any idea what needs to be in there?  IIRC, there are 16 pins (8 jumper locations).

[+Lee Stewart]

11 minutes ago, cbmeeks said:

Ah!  So, any idea what needs to be in there?  IIRC, there are 16 pins (8 jumper locations).

 

I think it is a DIP pack of 150-ohm resistors, but I need to confirm that. [Yes. 150 ohms is the value for each resistor in the termination DIP.]

 

...lee

Edited February 24, 2020 by Lee Stewart
confirmation of resistor-pack values

[+TheBF]

6 minutes ago, cbmeeks said:

Ah!  So, any idea what needs to be in there?  IIRC, there are 16 pins (8 jumper locations).

This looks like a good site for details on this stuff

 

http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html#term

 

Lee is correct. It appears to be 150 ohms. (for most drives)

 

[cbmeeks]

So would that be 150 ohms for all 8 locations?

 

 

[+Lee Stewart]

1 minute ago, cbmeeks said:

So would that be 150 ohms for all 8 locations?

 

Yes. For each of the 8 positions.

 

...lee

[cbmeeks]

Dangit!  If only I didn't have to work today....I'll have to try that this evening.  ?

 

Thanks again!

[+Lee Stewart]

8 minutes ago, cbmeeks said:

So would that be 150 ohms for all 8 locations?

 

6 minutes ago, Lee Stewart said:

Yes. For each of the 8 positions.

      ...lee

 

Actually, it looks like only 7 positions, i.e., 14-pin DIP (You could certainly use a 16-pin DIP with one pair hanging off or pins clipped). Mouser has them for ~$1.00 apiece.

 

...lee

[cbmeeks]

Oh, I got sockets galore.  I will probably just solder up a machine socket with the resistors and insert that into the existing socket on the board.  That way, it won't be permanent and reduce any stress on that ancient board.

[+Lee Stewart]

6 minutes ago, cbmeeks said:

Oh, I got sockets galore.  I will probably just solder up a machine socket with the resistors and insert that into the existing socket on the board.  That way, it won't be permanent and reduce any stress on that ancient board.

 

I do not mean to belabor the point because I may be misunderstanding you, but none of this is permanent. No need to solder anything. Just push the resistors into one of your spare sockets and push that into the PCB socket.

 

...lee

[cbmeeks]

Well, what I was going to do is just push the resistors into the socket already on the board to test.  If that works, I was then going to solder the resistors into another socket and insert that.  Mainly because the existing socket looks a little crusty and I was thinking of vibrations.  I'm not sure how worn out those connectors are.

 

The more I think about it, I might just test it and if it works, remove that old socket and solder in something better.  It's not like I'm going to put this drive in another machine.  I move that PEB around a bit and would hate for something to shake loose.