Beeshu: best pre-Street Fighter 2 "fight style stick"?

[tripletopper]

I was literally the first person on a different form mainly focus on fighting games convention what I think was a great joystick company.

 

This inspired me to make my own joystick recently ticket in you on the legacy of Breshu.

 

If you remember from the NES until the Genesis the shoe made a whole bunch of controllers. Some flopped, but the big winner was super stick.  the main advantage the Beeshu Superstick had was that was both left-handed and right-handed.

 

I remembered it was a whole line of NES Advantage competitors some even bkatently ripped off the look.  I don't know if anyone could remember any brand Advantage clone, but Nintendo had a big campaign against them in Nintendo Power.  

 

Most of the other ones in survive, but if I was an indicator of the rest of the market beeshus I heard were pretty well.  After beast you got a license turbo Grafx 16 for similar design and a Genesis 3 button version,. Nintendo finally let Beeshu join the seal of approval club.

 

The people on this other site, we'll call it the "dragon punch" site, had this one guy said that Beeshus are really cheaply constructed.  

 

I noticed the nesb shoe had something that the NES Advantage didn't have (besides ambidexterity), a clicky joystick.  Most people on that site love clicky joysticks as a fighting game website but turn their nose at Beeshu.  I meant websites which is a lot of joystick references,  the word Beeshu never brought up until I posted it.  I corrected this guy's lies / disinformation (depending on whether it was deliberate or not) that it was unauthorized junk.

 

Did you stop playing these video games that require joysticks because there was no off-the-shelf right-handed joystick after Beeshu went out of business?

 

And I think I understand the reason.  if I get some responses I'd like to talk and listen about why Beeshu failed after Street Fighter, and is the current fightstick market looking for an ambidextrous joystick?  I believe I found the reason why be shoe failed and I have a design mucho overcome Beeshu's flaw of mirrored buttons on the left and right side of joystick.  If you want to see my solution one of two I have, visit SinisterSticks.com and take a look at my 180 design that's not an American style.

[phoenixdownita]

I did visit SinisterStick.com and I was welcomed by this:

 

Hello!

Welcome to SinisterSticks.com

Ever wonder why if your video goame skill weere great before SAtreet Fighter 2 and better beofre the NES, why that is? IT's because the Industry changed the left handed controller as the standard controller. Not since Beeshu has there been acompany apporved by the system makers to do ambidexterity right. This joystick will be everything a rihgt handed stick plaer would need, adapter or many systems, System and game independednt buuton reprogramming, lightning quick moves, your chouice of parts, and a design that works well for lefties as it does for righthanders. In the tradition of "badboy poads that are Evil or Wicked, the name Sinister has a double meaning. Both the vonvrpt of an unfsir advantage you have when playing, and the literaly Latin meaing of he word Sinister meaning "left Handed." An yes you can be right handed for some purposes and left handed for others. It's just JAMMA and Nintendo changed the definitoin halfway through my childhood. Take back performance. Give yourself options. There a right way and a left way, and habving both is the correct way,

 

 

I don't think I have ever seen so many misspells at once .... please get your text through a proofreader tool ....

as to the idea .... it's simple enough but do you only rotate the base or also invert the buttons top to bottom and left to right ?

I'm sure you have to rotate the stick (so up stays up ... right?) at least electrically.

[tripletopper]

Sorry

1. Sorry about the misspelling but I still haven't found a HTML editor that edits human visible text and code text separately.

 

heck the spell check thinks all the HTML code are errors, even the correctly working ones.  So when everything is an error, nothing is.

 

And talk typing on a voice recognition microphone sometimes misunderstands you and you don't realize it until it's too late.

 

2. I tried to make the ultimate ambidextrous joystick.  I noticed B shoe failed because they relied on mirrored buttons which started getting expensive with Sega Genesis 3 button and then suddenly with Street Fighter would have become ridiculous.

 

I have a quite a few functions that have been done before on other Street Fighter self sticks that's singly make a small difference but all these combined make much bigger difference in the sum of their parts.

 

A.  A DB37 connection I'm both the front half and the back half of the joystick, regardless of which way you define front. Just oriented so that PCB plugs in the back porch and it's automatically arranged in the Capcom arrangement.  one reason I thought this would work which you did is because I noticed when a capture card is Y split so that you could do like gun games, some capture cards if you don't power the signal before the split the signal will not be powerful enough to be picked up by the capture card.  but having only one of the two plugged in does have enough power to do its job and the other is just as useless as a handle is on a GameCube.

 

I use that principle for S video input so that I can do is plug either one male or one female in and don't have to take out any adapters because the more you play with SVU adapters the more likely the pins will bend.

 

B. Another reason I use a db37 is to swap out 1 PCB like a Cthulhu for mid-classic systems,  a brook universal for modern systems an individually modded pcbs for Genesis and a few older systems,  plus a direct connection for Atari, Bally, and Sega Master System, and if I had one,  a Neo Geo.

 

C.  A third reason why I use db37 it's because right-handed arrangements do not automatically conform with left hand arrangements by default.  Most games where you have a mean button and secondary button I call index index games, meaning you want your rapid fire on your index button.  All Beshus assume index to index mapping.  the Sega made joystick for the Master System assumes the opposite and it ruins 100% of the games.  It's called left to left mapping. Games where that would be considered good would be tutankhamand Side Arms, both of which have a left fire and right fire action.  Those few games would actually work on a Sega Master System joystick, but I don't know any titles that would.  The two titles I could think of are 1 ColecoVision/Intellivision and one turbo graphics title.

 

And that was back in the two button days, when you have three buttons or six buttons you can't rely on the software to automatically set up for you that's why I'm using the handicap style 3.5 mm cables what each one carries a signal and can be swappable.  That also comes handy in games where you want to invert y-axis where you can't and vice versa.  Looking at you Zaxxon.  That face is a complete but the theory of sound.

 

how hard are some common ones that get repeated that you can buy a pre-wired db37 female to male adapter for things use a lot, like how all Super NES fight stick PCBs  assume a BAR arrangement as the row of kicks.  But mega Man Super Mario Brothers and quite a few other games would benefit by the original arrangement used in Super NES arrangement,  the YBA arrangement.  None of the PCB makers were there Cthulhu, PS360+, or Brook retro made that adjustment.  Fortunately for me, I can.

 

D.  Finally outside of numeric keypads so far the most buttons a machine needs is 18.  I found a design flaw in Edladdin' ColecoVision super action PCB.  If you swap buttons but don't swap the appropriate ground, because the fact that ColecoVision has two different rounds, since 3.5 mm signals naturally have three different parts, the grounds can be segregated and corresponding to each function.  If left fire uses groubd A and right fire uses ground B, if each button has its own ground signal that is guaranteed to correspond to hook up right if it matters.  For every other system it does work eventually linking to a single ground.

 

E.  If I'm going to spend $500 plus on a prototype joystick I wanted to work with as many video game consoles as possible.  

 

So phase one is complete and, as I predicted plugging in the back of the left hand has a standard arrangement, and plugging in the back of the right hand gives you a mirrored layout these following pairs swap.

 

I was inspired in 1999 by getting an Interact DC alloy stick. I was able to get it working by rotating the stick and swapping N and S,.  W and E ,  QP and QK, MP and MK, HP and HK, 3P and 3K.

 

The problem is threefold.  One is the ergonomics do not 180 well.  The second is with a Street Fighter 15 Stick for PS2 and Xbox Prime Stick, it only works with PS2, Xbox Prime, and certain system converters. As long as you use only.  Something gets lost double translation, so a one input to one pin solution works, because a PCB takes uncoded input and codes it in exactly the language you need.

 

The third problem is more subtle.  If I win a prize for winning a tournament, people will suspect I'm cheating.  And if I wanted to. I could.  But if I were honest, every match with he action and joystick motions synched have to be studied with a freeze frame and zoom.  Because it has programmability, which can be activated in a hidden way, I have to PROVE I'm innocent.

 

So mine will have no cheat features unless you add them externally.

 

 

[Newsdee]

I'm not sure universal controllers are the way to go. It seems simpler (and much cheaper) to just have one stick per preferred activity.

 

I built my own 4-way stick using a case available online and four buttons, and and it was about $80 with sanwa parts.

The encoder board is a bit weak but it does the job at a good price (I'd choose a Brooks or build my own Arduino with tested latency if it was for competition)

 

 

[tripletopper]

If a joystick is fundamentally the same on the system, why no make it universal?  It's cheaper and allows better parts on the stick itself.

 

Besides my joystick has a 4/8 way switch on it just rotate something 45 degrees and a square gate becomes a diamond gate.

 

By the way in 8-way games I prefer a square gate anyway.  It makes you hit what you want.  No confusion about Cardinals versus diagonals.

[tripletopper]

Amy one a baseball, hockey, or golf mother, father, or junior level organized coach?

 

When a child is young enough to want to play, how early should the issue of right-handed vs left-handed be determined?

 

Especially on comparison to:

 

a) a brand of glove maker, club maker it stick maker.

B) if there are personal feature differences in the equipment other that sizes, any of those.

 

More people here would agree that L/R is one of the first decisions made.  On the cartoon Doug, when Patti Mayonnaise realized Doug Funnie was left handed, she immediately called time, switched him around, and he got a bottom of the 9th 2 out hit to continue the game.

 

A lot of people on the "dragon punch website" think brand and features are more fundamental choices than right- or left-handed.

 

I'm scoffed at there, despite my evidence, but personal and more universally available.  It seems they have a "polo attitude" at the Dragon Punch website.

 

First,  the only reason they gave an "all rightie" rule in Polo is to prevent dangerous things that can happen if horses charge each other head-on.

 

Second, the change was cause by arcade owners trying to shorten credits, and it just bled into the home market.

 

Is there a sense of elitism I sniff at the Dragon Punch Website, like. "no one designs sticks for mass market improvement.  Everyone gets it custom built."?

 

If Beeshu was still around. I would not be looking for custom joysticks.

 

I think I have a theory why Beeshu is not in business   I'm doing a job no one else wants.  And hopefully a big stick maker can see it. And I can show that ambi sticks are better than lefty only.

[0078265317]

I got this few days ago.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402106772711

 

And this.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274264047093

 

[Newsdee]

On 3/3/2020 at 6:50 AM, tripletopper said:

Second, the change was cause by arcade owners trying to shorten credits, and it just bled into the home market.

I heard the same thing; however if that is the case, wouldn't left handed people find it easier to use the "common" layout?

But yes I agree with you it's rarely considered.

 

The one device that surprised me was the controller for the VTech V-Smile,

which had a piece that rotates around so you can put the stick on either side:
 

 

 

 

[tripletopper]

Do you see any schmups where 90% of the skillset is manually rapid firing?  No, pre crash schmups gave maximum onscreen shots.  Most modern schmups you might as well put a brick on the fire button, so there no advantage to rapid firing the shoot button, which is right hand.

 

There's a reason why they are  called "bullet hell" shooters.  The biggest skill is dodging, not shooting.  And guess what? It's a left handed joystick.

 

Other than R-Type, where you alternate between manual rapid firing and "charge shot", I can't think of too many shooters where manual rapid firing is a skill you need to master to win.

 

also people on the Dragon Punch website, people notice that joystick maneuvers are more lenient as time goes on.  Also special moves are moving towards the same strength as a "regular attack" as time went on.

 

I actually peaked at SF2NC, if I use a right stick. The other one Capcom Fighter I was awesome at was the Saturn version of X-Men vs Street Fighter, where I beat level 8 CPU on one credit, just by using smart tag team strategy, despite having a left stick only.

 

The main rule of arcades is "the house always wins". When you compete vs the CPU, that means shortening credit length.  Street Fighter 2 threw that out the window, having lineups to challenge the champ.  So allowing right handed was used in the "Mexican" version.

 

By the way, does anyone believe my zero to hero story about switching sides had both me and 4 common friends beat a famous 00s era Reality Basic Cable TV gamer, ten years before his first show? Band he always best us normally, and switching hands turned the tables from always losing to always winning?  Most people on the Dragon Punch website do not believe me, or they think it was a fluke.  It says something about the Dragon Punch website.