what happened here??

[newTIboyRob]

Hello all. Just wondering if this happened to any of you.  I was typing a simple program in basic  10 REM.... 20 PRINT...  etc, when all of a sudden I lost the number keys. Pressing the "1" for example gave me a symbol instead of the number 1.

I must have accidentally hit something and put it into another mode or something? 

I tried resetting the computer, same problem.  I tried unhooking and rehooking the computer, same problem.  I can't type programs if I don't have line number ability.  

 

What happened here, and more importantly, how do I get my "normal" computer back???

[xrbrevin]

The ANTIC chip contains the character set.

If you can, remove the chip and reseat it, in case of a dirty contact. Failing that, try one from another machine

[newTIboyRob]

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with that and am terrible at doing technical things.  What did I hit to make it instantly stop working like that?  (My hand did touch something on the keyboard, but I don't know what exactly.)

Isn't there any other way to get the keyboard back to normal without removing anything?

[xrbrevin]

if it was software related, i.e. something you pressed, then it would revert back to normal when powered off and on again.

for this reason, im thinking it is hardware related and it just happened to fail when in use.

ive never heard of a function like you describe but maybe others have?

what model of atari is it?

[newTIboyRob]

yes it was truly bizarre.  Good point about the software related concept. However, I was just typing in standard basic on 800xl. My hand missed the return key momentarily and brushed up against another key as I recall, and after that all the numbers were gone!  The letters themselves work fine, except the semicolon.

 

Ghost in the machine!  It would just be so coincidental that the numbers just stopped working at that very second, in the middle of my typing a program... but I suppose stranger things have happened with these quirky machines!

 

Any other ideas?

[Gunstar]

Well, since BASIC uses upper case letters, you wouldn't notice a difference with letters if your CAPS key is stuck, but numbers and symbols would give you the upper case symbols instead of numbers. And the CAPS key is right below RETURN on all Atari's. And if the CAPS key is stuck, powering down or resetting wouldn't change anything.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Gunstar

[xrbrevin]

Ive only got my 400 rigged up at the mo but pressing CAPS once will make the letters lower case. To put them back to upper case i have to press SHIFT and CAPS.

If i press CTRL and CAPS i get the various ASCII symbols instead of letters.

Try SHIFT and CAPS and see if it reverts back to normal. if not, i think there may be debris or damage causing the unwanted conductivity

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by xrbrevin

[+Stephen]

As mentioned already, there is no key combo which will lock the number keys in a different mode, and there is certainly nothing which survives a power off, power on cycle.

[newTIboyRob]

So trying SHIFT and CAPS didn't make it revert to normal, and as Stephen points out, it didn't survive a power off, power on cycle.  How is it possible that the letters stayed themselves, but the numbers didn't though?

How much would this cost to get fixed back to normal do you think?

[xrbrevin]

To ascertain the cost, we would need advice from someone who has had the same problem

In the image below, the ANTIC chip is on the bottom row, second from the left. Some 800XL chips are in sockets so they are very easy to lift out.

If you are up to it, open yours up and see. It may just fix it for free ?

 

 

 

[+tf_hh]

5 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So trying SHIFT and CAPS didn't make it revert to normal, and as Stephen points out, it didn't survive a power off, power on cycle.  How is it possible that the letters stayed themselves, but the numbers didn't though?

How much would this cost to get fixed back to normal do you think?

 

I´m pretty sure something went defect. Probably ANTIC, maybe GTIA, or a very strange issue with RAM.

 

Try following. Switch the computer on with no devices attached, no key pressed. BASIC is started and you should get a READY prompt.

 

Now enter BLIND. Don´t look at the monitor, just type it in:

 

10 PRINT "! 1234567890 ABC XYZ"

20 GOTO 10

 

Enter "RUN" and look what happens. When there´s repeated output on the screen and it won´t stop after a few seconds, the memory should work. What you´re reading on the screen when this BASIC program runs?

 

[Marius]

14 hours ago, xrbrevin said:

The ANTIC chip contains the character set.

If you can, remove the chip and reseat it, in case of a dirty contact. Failing that, try one from another machine

Is this true? I thought the OS ROM contained the Characterset. ANTIC probably handles it.

 

But I can be wrong of course. 

[flashjazzcat]

2 minutes ago, Marius said:

I thought the OS ROM contained the Characterset. ANTIC probably handles it.

Yes: perhaps this is what was meant. The character generator is on the ANTIC chip, but the character data is in ROM or RAM.

[Rybags]

Did you try pressing Reset?  That sets most things back to default.

 

It's possible but sort of unlikely that you could have changed the keyboard layout table pointer - it's kept in RAM on XL/XE only and allows custom keyboard layouts.

But there's no key combo that changes it, you have to change the pointer by POKE or programatically in assembler.

[xrbrevin]

thanks for clarifying that, every day is a learning day ?

[+tf_hh]

9 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So trying SHIFT and CAPS didn't make it revert to normal, and as Stephen points out, it didn't survive a power off, power on cycle.  How is it possible that the letters stayed themselves, but the numbers didn't though?

 

Check this little program out (see above). The reason why I let test it: Maybe one of the datalines to ANTIC is faulty (ANTIC reads from memory, D5 = defect). ANTIC fetches the ROM for character set (typical $E000) and the RAM for screen memory and it´s program - called Display List. When a normal "A" (BIN: 01000001) is printed, but a "0" (BIN: 00110000) not, then maybe bit 5 is defect. This bit is mostly not used in the Graphics 0 Display List. You would have some less or more empty lines at the screen´s top, but the human eye wouldn´t see that. ANTIC might work in Graphics 0 "normal" except wrong screen memory contents.

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

I couldn't try out that small program above, because the issue is that I can't enter in any line numbers since I have no numbers on the keyboard currently.  Before my last resort, which is opening her up and tinkering (which I am SO hesitant to do!) .... is there any POKE commands that may reset this?   The reset button does nothing to hep the issue, nor a cold power off power on cycle.

[jamm]

There's nothing you can do in software that would cause the behavior you're describing, so we're assuming there's a hardware problem.

 

Can you send a picture of the screen that shows the symbols you get when you try to type the numbers 1 thru 9?  If not can you tell us what symbols you get for each number?

[newTIboyRob]

Sure... After powering on my 800XL, there's the READY prompt.  I simply pressed the 1234567890 keys in succession, thus each character shown on the screen corresponds to each number key pressed.

(Forgive the over closeness to the screen and glare in the photo.)

[+Stephen]

My guess is the shift key is stuck.  You of course wouldn't notice this with letters, because hitting shift when "caps lock" is on does nothing.  I am also betting that hitting the CAPS key will not allow you to get lowercase letters.  It's been a LONG time, but I do believe that shift+CAPS forces uppercase.  Try hitting the caps and typing letters to see if you can get lowercase.

[+tf_hh]

3 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Sure... After powering on my 800XL, there's the READY prompt.  I simply pressed the 1234567890 keys in succession, thus each character shown on the screen corresponds to each number key pressed.

(Forgive the over closeness to the screen and glare in the photo.)

 

Ok... now it´s clear - and simple. One of the both SHIFT keys are permanently pressed down by failure. Remove the caps from the keys and check if there´s some dirt between. Which keyboard type you have? Best is to make a picture from both sides.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Stephen, you were right, the CAPS key prevented any lower case letters. Shift+CAPS thus N/A to force uppercase here, and hitting the caps and typing letters resulted in no lowercase letters.  Here are pics of the top, right side, bottom and back.  To remedy this problem, must I really unscrew the screws and take the whole thing apart a la You Tube videos, or can I get at the stuck and/or dirty key by taking the letters off from the keyboard? 

New to this, I don't know how to do that either.

 

I feel like a total boob, which I am otherwise not.

[+Stephen]

You can try repeatedly pressing both shift keys a few dozen times - tap them not very hard, but maybe a bit more than in actual typing.  Do each shift key a few dozen times and it may unstick.  Failing that, it's going to be an issue with the mylar which is inside the keyboard.

[jamm]

You could also try lifting up gently on both of your shift keys with a flat screwdriver.

[newTIboyRob]

Just to clarify, the shift keys are not pressed down and thus stuck. They look the same as the other keys, so I don't know how well the screwdriver would work. Perhaps, as others suggested, the problem is inside.  I am about to pack it up for a rainy day repair, since doing anything inside the computer is beyond my comfort level.