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Cobra Kai

BEAT-EM-UP: The Thread

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2 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

 

The five level padoga stages were from Game of Death.  It was also based on the Jackie Chan movie Wheels On Meals which was also called "Spartan X" in Japan...which is also the Japanese name for Kung Fu Master.

 

Any reason why the NES port dropped the Master part of the title? 

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7 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

"Jeu de baston" is rather used for one-to-one fighting games, though. But you're excused since "beat them all" is widely used by French journalists that are all very bad in English... -_-

You're right. Ironically though, "beat them all" is quite an accurate description of brawling games. :)

 

I suppose the big difference is the depth of moves. A one-of-one fighter usually has much more moves per characters and deeper strategy, whereas the brawler pits you against many enemies at once.

I suppose that facing 2 or more enemies makes complex moves difficult (as you are likely to be hit more) so there is no point in making your moveset too fancy.

I can see that in some modern games than try it, but you often end up spamming the same attack except against some bosses. Thinking of Sleeping Dogs for example.

 

Aggressors of Dark Combat (gangan) seems like a mixed breed between one-on-one fighting and beat-them-ups, since you can walk around the arena in 8 directions, but it feels a bit weird.


 


 

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2 hours ago, DragonGrafx-16 said:

Any reason why the NES port dropped the Master part of the title? 

Too long for dumb Americans to read? 😁

(I'm only half-joking, there's all kinds of changes done in videogames to cater for "that's what the 'muricans would like" that feel stupid or downright condescending)

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Just a thought, but it's clear Nintendo was going for simple, generic topic names for a lot of their early titles. That could be a reason why it was shortened to just "Kung Fu".

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3 hours ago, Newsdee said:

Ironically though, "beat them all" is quite an accurate description of brawling games.

Well, it's an accurate description of 70% of video games. ^^

The meaning of "to beat" is as vague in English as it is in French. You also have to "beat them all" in Fortnite, Super Mario Kart, Space Invaders, Tetris 99... ;)

Proof:

149429360_Screenshot_2020-03-10TrialsRisingE32018AnnouncementTrailerUbisoftNA.thumb.png.d8821f5925de2793c0f9390602186cd6.png

 

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I'm currently concentrating on trying to solo the SNES port of Knights of the Round (Normal difficulty). You get 9 credits, and I'm getting stuck at Level 6 the Muramasa samurai boss. There's a lot of combat strategy to this game. Anyone here gotten through the entire game solo? If so, which character did you use? I'm trying to do it with Arthur currently, but I'm wondering if Percival might be better with his extra strength. I'm not sure the speed stat has any real affect on the game.

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I finally bought Mega Drive Sailor Moon today.

 

Pic_0325_263.thumb.jpg.265d696829b8aa851cf83b16eaca8efd.jpg

 

I also learned that Bare Knuckle is about 50% more expensive than Bare Knuckle II for some reason. I'll be going back for both of those eventually. I have yet to see Bare Knuckle III anywhere at all. I have a feeling that it's probably rare and expensive, although none of them are particularly common.

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Warriors of Fate 2

I'm just going to say right off, I will not be able to do this game justice here. There are multiple versions, of which I have not played. My knowledge of the game is based off the import Sega Saturn version which is in Japanese language, in an intensive story based beat-em-up. All this means is that I can play the game, but have no idea what the story is. The game can be acquired on the Capcom Beat-em-up Bundle/Capcom Belt Action Collection for some modern consoles (PS4/Switch)

 

Here's Wikipedia's entry on the game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriors_of_Fate

 

Now, they call it Warriors of Fate, but the Saturn release is definitely Warriors of Fate II, as seen here:

Warriors_of_Fate_(CP_System_Dash)_JP.png.6513ea7df197f291999cee5d6d859319.png

 

For a beat-em-up, this is a heavily story driven game, as you will see by all the cut-scenes throughout. I have no idea what it's about, but appears as set in China, and you may be on a quest by some Lord to quell a rebellion (just guessing). Some of the cut-scenes show villagers running for their lives while being chased by soldiers who are cutting them down. While others depict a massive naval battle.

 

There are 5 main characters to choose from, all males, but after searching for screenshots, it appears there are some secret unlockable characters. Also, the Saturn version is 2 player, the arcade game must have been 3-players:

WoF2.png.bddb90c00d5d24d8afdfe8109afa682f.png

 

I would directly compare this game to Knights of the Round. But, there's quite a bit more to this game. Not only is there weapon based combat, there are many melee and grapple moves for each character. The button setup is 3 buttons, Attack/Jump/Mega Crush. Each character uses the same joystick motion and button presses to perform all the moves, so it's easy to switch from one character to another. For example, all the characters can grab enemies, and by pressing left/right and the attack button, will throw the enemy, while up or down + attack will perform a bite or choke style move. You can also grab, press jump + attack and that performs even another move. 

 

So, you can see, just the grappling makes the move set at-least twice as large as Knights of the Round. This is a deep beat-em-up with a move set as big as two of Capcoms other games in the genre (KotR + Final Fight). There is also horseback combat, and you actually begin the game riding into battle on a horse:

Wof22.jpg.d78dc3d9d8bd07d8b5beff474686d6ca.jpg

 

Horseback offers it's own moves. You can do Front and Rear swipes with your weapon. You can perform your mega-crush while on the horse. You can also make the horse charge, or rear-up and pound the ground which unleashes a wave of energy to knock enemies back. 

 

There are even more moves that you can perform while on the ground, which can even lead to your enemies being chopped in half. Pressing Down + Jump will perform a character specific dash attack which is pretty powerful, and used to clear a path in a sense. You can also top-wise half circle for another special attack that's very powerful and doesn't reduce your health bar like the Mega Crush will. Top-wise meaning LEFT/LEFT-UP/UP/RIGHT-UP/RIGHT + ATTACK. You can do that in either direction. These are all character specific and vary wildly with each one.

 

The stages are epic in size, and you will fight 20-30 enemies on each level before fighting the Boss. One thing I really like about this game are the boss fights. Not because they are particularly special, but unlike many beat-em-ups, in this game, the bosses don't fight cheap, and can be fought against using your full move list, even the grappling. Most beat-em-ups you have to totally change your techniques to fight the boss, or simply just take beatings and mega-crush your way to victory while pumping credits into it. Not so with this game, you can actually fight the boss with all your moves, they don't necessarily get priority over everything you do.

 

There are many, many item pick-ups in this game as well. Treasure chests and barrels litter the battlefield. What lies within can be food, points, or weapons. Sometimes there's a pick-up that summons the Horse for you. There is quite a variety of weapons, such as large swords, scimitars, battle-axe, cudgels, daggers, hammers. Again, with the right weapon, you can slice enemies in half. With a hammer, you can actually stun enemies for a short time. 

 

I think the graphics are incredible, and impressive when you have about 10 fairly large character sprites on screen, all moving about and I haven't detected any slowdown. The backgrounds are fun to look at, some of it is in a forest, or you switch to fighting in a stream with running water effects. One stage is a large battlefield you fight through, and sometimes there are dead bodies strewn about in the background. This is why I wish I had the English version of the game, because there is some epic tale being told and I don't know what it is.

 

That's all I got on this one.

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My prime arcade years were during the post-Final-Fight explosion of multi-player button-mashing beat-em-up games, and I salivated over those games at the time.  Nowadays, having the luxury of a MAME cabinet where I can scroll through several different generations and genres of games one after the other and play whatever I want, I have found myself in the camp of retro gamers who finds the beat-em-ups to be a bit button-mashy.  

 

One thing I find they're good for is playing with friends because they lend themselves to just walking up and playing.  

 

And, just like all styles of games, quality levels vary.  I strongly prefer the beat-em-ups that have a little bit of technique to them and a little bit of a learning curve, as opposed to the Konami style ones (e.g., Simpsons, TMNT, X-Men) where you do little more than mash a generic "attack" button.  

 

I did a deep dive on this style a few years ago and made a nice list of lesser-known beat-em-ups on my MAME cabinet.  I'll have to scroll through that list again, but I remember one of my favorites on there is Sengoku 3, which has awesome graphics and a nice list of attacks to learn without being too complicated.  

 

 

  

 

 

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I've always liked Sengoku 3 as well. I bought the AES cart 3 different times. What sets it apart from other beatemups is the combo meter/system. I liked the usable character variety, but at the same time, I thought the enemies were not very imaginative, and very repetitive. Of course, I can see how that's a silly complaint particularly in this genre of games, that are known for their repetitive enemies. 

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Being in quarantine I've naturally got a laptop hooked up to your big TV, loaded up with emulators and games. 

 

One thing that's been kind of fun about the quarantine is my wife has started playing a lot more games with me.  She's always played occasionally, but now I guess she's much more open to different ways of passing time and not just sitting around worrying.  Plus, having a Big Box setup with wireless controllers really makes the laptop feel like an easy-to-use multi-game console, which helps I think (she's been playing even when I'm doing other things).

 

Anyway, we were playing a lot of 2 player puzzle games, which has been a blast because I'm just not used to having people to play these games with and oftentimes the 2 player modes have some different gameplay dynamics and features than the single player modes.   

 

Then, the other night, I was looking for a break in puzzle games and tried to think of something else for a change of pace.  I was doing that "Netflix" move where you randomly scroll around options without having any idea of what to pick.  She was like "what game are you trying to find?"  And I said "You'll see... just wait."  And then I saw Streets of Rage 2 on Genesis, and I figured, hey, beat-em-ups are easy to pick up and play for 2 players.  I loaded the game up and was about to give a quick explanation of what it is and why I picked it, but before I could do that, my wife was like "Oooooh!  What is this?!  I recognize it!  I love this game!"  

 

She never would have recalled the name on her own, but it turns out her brother had SoR2 back in the 90s and they played it all the time.  We played a few full games in a row, it was a lot of fun.  SoR2 is definitely a great example of this genre, especially on the console side.  I'm sure we'll play again tonight after we put the toddler to bed.     

 

 

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I played some Bad Dudes VS. Dragon Ninja, from Data East. This is an early beat-em-up, but honestly, it's kind of terrible. I think I put a few quarters into this machine way way back. It's not much of an evolution from Kung Fu Master and Vigilante. The fighting is on a straight 2D plane, making your movements very restricted. The big difference is that there is usually an upper and lower platform to do combat, similar to Shinobi or Rolling Thunder.

 

805133201_baddudes.png.9873216695304e8fbd0edbbcfacea775.png

 

The selection of moves to perform are few. Meanwhile, every enemy, other than bosses, will die with one hit. This combination makes for a particularly boring game. One-hit kills really defeats the purpose of beating people up. I only played 2 levels of this the other day, and the only positive I came away with was fighting against Karnov as the level 1 boss. A couple of gamers could have some quick fun with this as a 2-player game, if they wanted to waste 15-20 minutes. They'd be begging for it to end before that time is up I'll bet.

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8 hours ago, Kobra Kai said:

One-hit kills really defeats the purpose of beating people up.

That's why Kishimoto Yoshihisa, creator of Double Dragon, calls this type of early beat 'em ups "shooting games"!

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11 hours ago, Kobra Kai said:

I played some Bad Dudes VS. Dragon Ninja, from Data East. This is an early beat-em-up, but honestly, it's kind of terrible. I think I put a few quarters into this machine way way back. It's not much of an evolution from Kung Fu Master and Vigilante. The fighting is on a straight 2D plane, making your movements very restricted. The big difference is that there is usually an upper and lower platform to do combat, similar to Shinobi or Rolling Thunder.

 

805133201_baddudes.png.9873216695304e8fbd0edbbcfacea775.png

 

The selection of moves to perform are few. Meanwhile, every enemy, other than bosses, will die with one hit. This combination makes for a particularly boring game. One-hit kills really defeats the purpose of beating people up. I only played 2 levels of this the other day, and the only positive I came away with was fighting against Karnov as the level 1 boss. A couple of gamers could have some quick fun with this as a 2-player game, if they wanted to waste 15-20 minutes. They'd be begging for it to end before that time is up I'll bet.

My wife and I always laugh about this game because of the movie 'Parenthood':

 

"Well they're bad dudes- that's why they call the game 'Bad Dudes'."  hehehehe

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Final Fight is my favorite one, I like playing as Haggar and spamming the body splash move. That's why I always play as Zangief in Street Fighter as well.

 

Alien Vs Predator was excellent too.

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On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 6:49 PM, Kobra Kai said:

I played some Bad Dudes VS. Dragon Ninja, from Data East. This is an early beat-em-up, but honestly, it's kind of terrible. I think I put a few quarters into this machine way way back. It's not much of an evolution from Kung Fu Master and Vigilante. The fighting is on a straight 2D plane, making your movements very restricted. The big difference is that there is usually an upper and lower platform to do combat, similar to Shinobi or Rolling Thunder.

 

805133201_baddudes.png.9873216695304e8fbd0edbbcfacea775.png

 

The selection of moves to perform are few. Meanwhile, every enemy, other than bosses, will die with one hit. This combination makes for a particularly boring game. One-hit kills really defeats the purpose of beating people up. I only played 2 levels of this the other day, and the only positive I came away with was fighting against Karnov as the level 1 boss. A couple of gamers could have some quick fun with this as a 2-player game, if they wanted to waste 15-20 minutes. They'd be begging for it to end before that time is up I'll bet.

 

Agreed 100%.  I remember playing this at the arcade when it came out and I feel like I always thought the game was kind of shitty, but back then I was more apt to just go with the flow and uncritically play whatever games churned through the local arcades.  With the benefit of being able to play whatever I want via MAME, nowadays I can afford to be much more ruthless in criticizing such mediocre games.   

 

I remember getting the NES version of Bad Dudes for Christmas one year.  Talk about compounding mediocrity. 

 

I suppose comparisons to Kung Fu Master are appropriate if not inevitable, but for whatever reason I still really enjoy Kung Fu Master and play it all the time.   

 

 

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On 4/7/2020 at 10:38 AM, Cynicaster said:

I suppose comparisons to Kung Fu Master are appropriate if not inevitable, but for whatever reason I still really enjoy Kung Fu Master and play it all the time.   

 

 

I have always enjoyed Kung Fu Master and even more so to Vigilante. I wouldn't critique KFM with the same criteria as Bad Dudes, because it has a certain innocence about it, being so much older of a game. It's like, you can't really complain too much about Space Invaders ya know?

 

 

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Battle Circuit by Capcom is pretty fun.  Some of the playable characters are stupid but I enjoy playing the blue guy.  
 

 

5EC9A09C-320B-4FA9-9FEC-170716850A98.jpeg

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Night Slashers is another fave of mine.  If you’ve ever fantasized about being a guy with a bad mullet who DDTs zombies on the sidewalk to make their brains splat about, then this is your jam.  Just make sure not to play the US version because they got rid of all the gross gore.  
 

 

E1135277-E3DA-43A1-BEA2-9AEBE78C5BA0.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Cynicaster said:

Night Slashers is another fave of mine.

This one is not available in the European eShop unfortunately. 😕 But I'm not sure the Japanese version is included in the Johnny Turbo's Arcade release anyway...

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Night Slashers looks interesting, perhaps I'll see if that is on my old Xbox. I played one called Cadillacs and Dinasaurs last weekend.

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