Gunstar #1 Posted July 15, 2003 I recently aquired and Supra modem, which I am already using on my Mac 6115PPC, and soon will have my Amiga 2000 (uprgaded with harddrive and 4megs) online too, but I'm most interested in getting my ST online. I'm wondering if it's possible to do so with only a megabyte of memory and no HD? I intend to upgrade the memory and give it an HD someday, and a blitter chip, but it'd be cool if I could go online with it now anyway...if it's possible to get online with a meg and one floppy drive, what programs will do it? Anyhow what programs are needed regardless? CAB? A TCP stack program? What else? What are they called, what are the alternatives, and most importantly, where can I find them online? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert #2 Posted July 15, 2003 I have not tried this myself, but I've seen pictures of the ST browsing the web. However, I don't know how much memory these machines have or what particular STs they may have been. Might be tough with just 1MB. I think you'll definitely have an easier time of it if you add more memory (say, 4MB total) and add a hard drive. I can't even imagine trying to browse the web on a floppy-based system. I've also seen 8-bit systems surfing the web, if rather crudely, so I can't imagine it'll be all that difficult to get your ST online. Please keep us abreast of your quest, I'd like to learn more about this myself. ..Al Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Sauron #3 Posted July 15, 2003 The first computer I ever used to get on the Internet was my 1040ST. Of course, back then it was about the same as dialing into a BBS. I just used Flash, and later ANSI, and my modem. If you're wanting to use the ST as more than just a dummy terminal, you'll need a TCP/IP stack such as STiK or STinG, and of course other software for doing things like browsing, such as CAB or Highwire. That's about the extent of my knowledge, as I never used my ST to get online in any other way than as a terminal. I'm sure there's plenty of others here who can give you much more detailed information than I can, but that should give you the basic gist of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krupkaj #4 Posted July 15, 2003 I am not sure if 1 MB is enough. Nevertheless you have two possibilitiies, you can try STIK together with CAB or you can use Draconis packet. I have my Falcon connected to the internet via tv cable and I am running Sparemint with all internet application without problem. I think that on the 1MB ST it will be more difficult but not impossible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ProToS] #5 Posted July 16, 2003 with a 1mb st forget the www ..... for irc mail and news no problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lais #6 Posted July 16, 2003 ]with a 1mb st forget the www ..... for irc mail and news no problem It can be done with 1 MB and no hard disk, but only if you want to prove it works. It's of no practical use and I wouldn't encourage it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atari-Jess #7 Posted July 19, 2003 Its more than possible ive done it myself attached is the directions to do it. you need 2 blank disks and you dont need more than 1 disk drive and 1 meg of ram no 520's --------------- Setting Up STinG 1.20 and CAB 1.5 on a 1 mb 1040 STf ____________________ by Tony Cianfaglione In our user group, we have many members who are still using a plain 'vanilla' 1 mb (non-expandable) 1040 STf. These members would like to be able to access the Internet, even if it is text-only, as most ISPs today only offer PPP access. Locally, we are also fortunate to have one ISP offering Lynx text dialup so that members currently access the Internet using a terminal program such as Flash or Teddy Term. For those who wish to use the TCP/IP package, STinG v1.20 by Peter Rottengarter and Ronald Andersson and CAB (Crystal Atari Browser) v1.5, this info sheet is for you. I have tested this setup on several 1040's and a Mega2 and it works very well. I have not tried CAB v2.7 because there is so much to that program that it would be difficult to fit onto a 720k disk. Both STinG 1.20 and CAB 1.5 in this document are run from 720k disks and are fully optimized (thanks to many helpful suggestions from Ronald Andersson, John Whalley, Ric Easton and others). I have included parts of my email conversation with Ronald on these programs as he can better explain the different procedures. STEP 1: (Setting up STinG 1.20) My final configuration files are included at the end of this document so that you can compare them to what you have in the event you can't get it to work just right. I started out by formatting 2 - 720k double sided, double density disks; one for STinG, the other for CAB. On the STinG disk, I created several directories: AUTO CPX STING I placed the following files in the auto directory in the following order so that they would load in that particular order: DRVIN.PRG, MFP.PRG, STING.INF, STING.PRG DRVIN.PRG and MFP.PRG are from the file: HSMODA07.LZH and STING.INF and STING.PRG are from the STinG zipfile. Unzipping STinG 1.20 creates the various files you need in their various sub-directories. You should get the file called XCONTROL.ACC (version 1.31 is available from ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/atari/Utils/XControl/ or ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/atari/tools/xcontrol/) and put it in your root directory as it is essential to load the CPX's and it will also create your drop down Control Panel menu. Once STinG is unzipped and all files are set up properly, your disk directory should look like this: A:CONTROL.INF A:XCONTROL.ACC A:AUTODRVIN.PRG A:AUTOMFP.PRG A:AUTOSTING.INF A:AUTOSTING.PRG A:CPXSERIAL.CPX A:CPXSTING.CPX A:CPXSTING.PRT A:CPXSTNGPORT.CPX A:CPXSTNGPROT.CPX A:STINGCACHE.DNS A:STINGSTING.HYP A:STINGDEFAULT.CFG A:STINGROUTE.TAB A:STINGTCP.STX A:STINGUDP.STX A:STINGSERIAL.STX A:STINGRESOLVE.STX A:STINGDIALERDIALER.APP A:STINGDIALERDIAL.RSC A:STINGDIALERDIAL.INF A:STINGDIALERICON.RSC A:STINGDIALERDIAL.SCR A:STINGDIALERLOCAL.FEE A:STINGDIALERLOGIN.BAT A:STINGDIALERDIAL.LOG A:STINGDIALERIP.INF A:STINGDIALERCALL_ITCALL_IT.PC A:STINGDIALERCALL_ITCALL_IT.PRG A:STINGDIALERREM_CTRLREMCTRL.H A:STINGDIALERREM_CTRLFAKE.PRG A:STINGDIALERREM_CTRLREQUEST.PRG A:STINGDIALERDEV_KITLOGSTRING A:STINGDIALERTOOLSPING.PRG A:STINGDIALERTOOLSPING.RSC A:STINGDIALERTOOLSTRACROUT.PRG A:STINGDIALERTOOLSTRACROUT.RSC A:STINGDIALERTOOLSSAVE_IP.TTP A:STINGDIALERTOOLSSYSINFO.TTP A:STINGDIALERTOOLSSHUTDOWN.PRG You will notice that there are some programs missing. Not all of the programs included in the STinG 1.20 zipfile are necessary and can be deleted to save precious RAM and disk space. Make sure that data in any of the INF files (which are used to supply information to the program files) are all in uppercase (CAPITAL) letters as STinG looks for the uppercase letters. Also ensure that RESOLVE.STX is loaded last. You should have 228,885 bytes remaining on the disk. ------------------------ STEP 2: (Setting up CAB 1.5) The CAB disk directory should look like this: A:CABCAB.APP A:CABCAB.INF A:CABCAB.OVL A:CABCAB.RSC A:CABCABOVL.CFG A:CABSTART.HTM A:CABHOTLIST.HTM A:CABMODULESCAB_JPEG.OVL A:CABCACHENEWCACHE A:CABCACHECACHE.CAB A:CABCACHE subdirectories A through Z (needed for caching files) You should have 293,406 bytes space remaining on the disk. Included below is an email from Ronald Andersson on things to do at this point to help save valuable disk space and ram on both disks: From: Ronald Andersson : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Start CAB.APP *without* having the CAB.OVL present in the same folder. That saves some RAM, and ensures that no attempt is made to contact STinG, which was not booted this time around. With some luck this should allow CAB to start up properly, though naturally only with offline capability. Next you go through the display settings and turn off all image displays, and set the RAM cache to some really low value (Try 0, it works here). That cache won't really be needed anyway for most text pages, and you can't get reliable graphics display without more RAM. Save these new settings, and just to make sure, restart CAB to check that it is not allergic to the settings saved (which has happened on some occasions). Next, kill any STX files that you don't need, as they will only steal RAM, and that may be more than just program size, if they need buffers. The STXs you will not need, that are in the STinG 1.20 packager are probably two. The ETHER.STX is for Peter Rottengatter's Ethernet board (Riebl board I think.) and is not useful for you. MASQUE.STX is also not useful, except if you want to use a modem connected to this STF, and use it to masquerade some other machines. That is not a good idea anyway, if you plan to use this machine for browsing, as it is not really fast enough to do both things well. So you should erase both ETHER.STX and MASQUE.STX, to save a little more RAM for CAB. Since you will not be using multitasked STinG clients or servers either, you can also try setting the ALLOCMEM value in DEFAULT.CFG to a lower value, such as 50000 or 60000. Now you reboot with the necessary STING.PRG, and XCONTROL, and the other stuff you want, but still avoiding wasteful RAM usage. It is for example important not to be using late-version NVDI, or THING desktop in such a boot, as they both waste RAM something awful (for so small a system). If you have done all the above properly you should be able to browse most HTML documents online in text-only mode, but if you reach any really 'heavy' text pages (eg: the RFC index at FUNET.FI), then you can still suffer bombs, as there may not be enough RAM free to read such huge files. You may also need to experiment with the available CAB.OVL files, to see if this makes any difference to the RAM used. It is very likely that the newer and smarter (and more speed-optimized) versions may waste more RAM than some older ones. So on a 'low-end' system like a 1040 STF, the old stuff may work better. Only tests can prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards: Ronald Andersson mailto:[email protected] http://dlanor.atari.org/ ICQ:38857203 http://www.ettnet.se/~dlanor/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 3: (Configuring the RAM and disk settings) Ensure that you are using the 68000 version of CAB.OVL as I made the early mistake of copying my Falcon install over, including the 68030 version which caused it to crash with 3 bombs. Using the correct version fixed that problem. Another note from Ronald explains it better: From: Ronald Andersson : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ on Tue 15-06-1999 18:28 I wrote: re: using a 68000-compatible CAB 1.5 version >How do you tell the difference between them? The 68030 version originally came in a separate archive, containing only the program file and a small readme. The real CAB 1.5 package was still needed, and it was that package that held the 68000 version. I'm not sure if these versions have been 'repacked' by anyone though, so a size check may help. The 68030 version is 288970 bytes. The 68000 version is 290040 bytes. All other files in the CAB 1.5 package are shared, so it is only the program file that needs to be changed if you have the wrong one. BUT..., there are also '030 versions of some of the CAB.OVL releases. These may also bomb when loaded by CAB on a 68000 machine. That is one reason why I recommended testing without any CAB.OVL present with CAB. (Either in the same folder, or in the 'MODULES' subfolder.) Do this to make sure that CAB itself will run properly, then install various CAB.OVL versions until you find one that works. If you want to avoid such problems for the users that visit your support pages, the best way is to simply include only 68000-compatible versions. These will run on all 680x0 machines, and there is very little difference in their effective speed. These reasons are also why STinG itself is only released in a single version for all users, regardless of which CPU they use. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards: Ronald Andersson mailto:[email protected] http://dlanor.atari.org/ ICQ:38857203 http://www.ettnet.se/~dlanor/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following is a report I made during trial and error testing. It is included for the benefit of anyone who may experience similar problems. (Comments and suggestion from Ronald Andersson helped solve the problems): From: me Update: After making the mods that Ronald suggested (ALLOCMEM at 50000), ETHER.STX, MASQUE.STX, MASQUE.HYP deleted, I have STinG 1.20 running fine on the 1 mb STf and I can connect successfully to the ISP. I found the 68000 CAB.OVL but it is 35,626, not 29,000 bytes. I set RAM to 0, CACHE to 0, left images on as a trial. CAB 1.5 connected and images worked fine for first 3 pages then lockup. (Ronald writes: You must have misunderstood me. I told you to set RAM CACHE to zero, not RAM *and* disk CACHE. Given the way CAB and CAB.OVL interact I doubt that CAB can work correctly with no disk cache at all. Naturally you can't have a very large disk cache on floppy, but you can have enough for some simple text browsing, and clean that cache out regularly after you are finished with a site.) Turning images off and saving changes, I went online again and selected our ISP homepage which loaded fine. However, a new problem has occured. After accessing the ISP's simple homepage, the words: Formatting text... appear in the info line at the top of the screen and disk access is constant. After 10 minutes, the disk drive is still running. I had to cut the power to stop it. (Ronald writes: I think this means CAB is trying to use the disk cache while also trying to keep its size below the zero value you set up above. That can't work of course.) Repeated tries all render the same results. Not sure if cutting power corrupted the files. Turned images on again to see if I could connect as I did originally but the same formatting text message and disk access again. I can't seem to get any farther at this point. T.----- STEP 4: (First connection attempts and troubleshooting) I made the changes as suggested by Ronald but I still have some problems as noted below: From: me STinG connects fine, starting CAB works well until I enter the first url for the Internet. When I first start CAB, it loads a special small html file I have on the A: drive disk which is fine. So far so good - I am successfully online with PPP on a 1040 STf and CAB is running. Entering the first url: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/ (our freenet homepage) with the images turned off, the page loaded is only 1400 bytes total. I had set the disk ram, per your instructions, at 1 mb (the smallest setting there is, unfortunately - any way around this limitation?) and saved the settings. I get the same result as before. (Ronald writes: I assume you mean "disk cache" above, not "disk ram" as you wrote. (Mainly because the latter makes no sense. Or in other words that you set the cache size in the right half of that dialog to 1MB, and the one in the left half to zero. It is also this dialog that you will need to re-enter now and then to free the disk cache space that has been used up, using the "Free cache" button in the right half of the dialog.) The page loads and the words "Formatting text..." appear in the url header and the A: drive starts running with a 'chip-chip, chip-chip' sound as if it were looking for something. (My note: it was at this point, that I formatted another disk and copied everything over...my testing and subsequent lockups trashed part of the disk which was why I was getting the 'chip-chip' searching sound.) STEP 5: (A successful connection...this was my report at this point! From: me: I finally have it working well. I refresh CAB immediately before proceeding with the first offsite URL by freeing the disk cache and then doing it every 5 sites I visit. I also created a fresh new disk and put the files there as I think I may have trashed the first one by powering down when it was locked up. Using graphics enabled, you need to flush your disk cache every 5 pages on average; with graphics disabled, it would be every 15 - 20 pages unless they are massively sized pages. Using an SM124 or 125 monochrome monitor, I am able to enable images although they are monochrome. Using an SC1224 color monitor, I cannot enable monochrome or color mode for some reason but the text version works well. With or without images, just being able to surf the 'Net using a 1040 STf (1 mb) machine is quite encouraging. Please note that the DIAL.LOG file in the STINGDIALER directory will grow with each login (successful or unsuccessful) and must be edited occasionally to remove the stored lines otherwise it will eat up valuable disk space. ------------------------------------------------------ The following configuration files are supplied to help in your setup: CONTROL.INF: A:CPX*.CPX 0 5 1 ---------------------------------------- STING.INF: A:STING --------------------------------------- DIAL.INF: A:STINGDIALER --------------------------------------- LOGIN.BAT: A:STINGTOOLSSAVE_IP.TTP A:STINGDIALERIP.INF Modem 1 ---------------------------------------- START.HTM: (this is just a small html file I created to give CAB 1.5 something to look for as it will not seek an online page upon startup and will crash if you don't supply it with a start page. The one included in the CAB zipfile is quite large and takes a lot of RAM and disk space so I am including my small start page here.) Welcome To STinG 1.20 & CAB 1.5 Use the hotlist or enter a URL for Internet startup. ---------------------------------------- DEFAULT.CFG: (the MSS may differ with your ISP. The one supplied works with mine. You can check with your ISP for their settings). # # This is the STinG relevant stuff. # ALLOCMEM = 50000 # THREADING = 50 FRAG_TTL = 60 # ICMP_GMT = -60 ICMP_AD = 10 ICMP_FLAG = 0 # TCP_PORT = 1024 MSS = 956 RCV_WND = 3824 DEF_RTT = 500 DEF_TTL = 128 TCP_ICMP = 1 # UDP_PORT = 1024 UDP_ICMP = 1 # USERNAME = HOSTNAME = FULLNAME = # NAMESERVER = DOMAIN = sting.org DNS_CACHE = 64 DNS_SAVE = TRUE # PAP_ID = PAP_PASSWD = # # Here starts the client relevant stuff. # # Used by the Dialer : # DIALER = 0.0.0.0 LOGIN_BATCH = A:STINGDIALERLOGIN.BAT # ---------------------------------------- DIAL.SCR: (the MTU may differ with your ISP. The one supplied works with mine. You can check with your ISP for their settings.) # # # General Parameters # SERIALPORT = Modem 1 DEF_ROUTE = TRUE MASQUERADE = FALSE EXEC_BATCH = TRUE CIX_LOGIN = FALSE RESIDENT = FALSE DEBUGGING = FALSE # # # Port Parameters # CLIENT_IP = 0.0.0.0 MTU = 1006 PAP_ID = username (if applicable) PAP_PASSWORD = password (if applicable) PAP_PROMPT = FALSE PROTOCOL = 1 VJHC = TRUE LAN_PORT = FALSE # # # Addressing # USERNAME = username (fill in yours) FULLNAME = full name (fill in yours) HOSTNAME = hostname (fill in yours) NAMESERVER = your IP DNS number here (ie...123.45.67.890) FETCH_DNS = FALSE # # # Modem Specifics # INIT = ATZ PREFIX = ATDT HANGUP = +++,ATH CONNECT_WAIT = 60 REDIAL_DELAY = 0 SUCCESS = CONNECT FAILURE = BUSY FAILURE = NO CARRIER ABORT = NO DIALTONE # # # Telephone # PHONE_NUMBER = put your ISP phone # here FEE_FILE = LOCAL.FEE ISP_TIME = 0, 0.00 ISP_SENT = 0, 0.00 ISP_RECVD = 0, 0.00 # # # Network Environment # # # # Dial Script # FIND_TIMEOUT = 30 # DIAL_SCRIPT # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUPPORT URLs: Ronald Andersson: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [email protected] ICQ:38857203 http://dlanor.atari.org/ http://www.ettnet.se/~dlanor/ John Whalley: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Site index: http://www.whalley.demon.co.uk/ Atari index: http://www.whalley.demon.co.uk/atari/ Sting setup helpsheet: http://www.whalley.demon.co.uk/atari/texts...s/stingset.html Peter Rottengatter: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~perot/index-e.html ASH homepage: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.application-systems.de/ Atari ST Quick FAQ: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://bales.online.fr/atari Nova Scotia Atari Computer Users Group website: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.chebucto.ca/Technology/NSACUG Homepage for this file: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.chebucto.ca/Technology/NSACUG/f...aq/stfsting.txt =============================================================================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ProToS] #8 Posted July 19, 2003 hi, Its more than possible ive done it myself I never say impossible but it's slow and not very usable for www Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunstar #9 Posted July 19, 2003 Thank you so much for those instructions, they will come in very handy, even if I do wait until I upgrade to at least a HD before attemting (I only have one drive now anyway). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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