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J-Data

TIPI in a Speech Synthesizer Housing?

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What do you all think of the idea of combining the 32K sidecar and TIPI into a single PCB, (using the speech synthesizer PCB board outline), and putting it in a speech synthesize housing?  A Pi ZeroW  could be board-to-board top mounted on the TIPI with SD card access through the synthesizer's door, making is a very small neat package.

 

I know it all seems too big for the synthesize's PCB, but the glue logic on the 32K could be incorporated into the TIPI's CPLD, and maybe a single 74HCT245 buffer could be shared between the ROM and RAM chips.  Possibly change all ICs to SMT.   

 

Bad idea? 

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If it's possible, (I have no clue) I'm not sure how well it would sell as quite a few people already have TIPI's in one form or another.  Some of them might want to upgrade to SAMS capability as well.  This also seems like quite a bit to sandwich into a Speech Synthesizer case, assuming everyone has one.  This configuration might limit future expansion options as well.  Honestly, while I know it works, I'm no fan of the Pi Zero for TIPI use, I'd suggest at least an RPi 3 or 3B+.  Of course I feel compelled to state that this is only MY OPINION, others may think differently.

 

For a more compact approach, with current available hardware, I'd suggest a new bottom half for the console that would give one an extra inch of space to put hardware.  One could always run a ribbon cable out of the TI and under the speech case and then plug it in the side.  It would hardly be noticeable.

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24 minutes ago, INVISIBLE said:

Honestly, while I know it works, I'm no fan of the Pi Zero for TIPI use, I'd suggest at least an RPi 3 or 3B+. 

Out of curiosity, what don't you like about the Pi Zero?  Seems to work fine for me, but I'm not a power user.  Would prefer a wired Ethernet, but I love the board to board mount capability and the ridiculously low cost. I have many 3B+'s in my house but am using the ZeroW, just for how clean it is on the TIPI.

20200223_125142.jpg

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Posted (edited)

No, I won't do wireless on anything cept my phone, no choice... but speech SHOULD go with Tipi housing I think.yes if possible.

I can do some wireless, so I can take that back a bit.. depending on availability of cable and where it is.

But my pi 3 will be wired

Edited by GDMike
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I kinda love the idea of putting modern expansions in speech synthesizer casings. Just for the confusion as people look at your TI and try to figure out why it has four speech synthesizers attached and nothing else.

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37 minutes ago, GDMike said:

Or go by way of PEB and put speech where it belongs

Yep, speech in PEB is something I would really like to have.

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You're right, no one would buy it and it isn't solving an issue anyone needs fixing.  Its just an fun exercise I'd like to build for myself to see if it could be done.  I did a quick 2 layer PCB, and a combined TIPI/32K sidecar could be made to fit within the speech synthesizer PCB outline.  See below.

 

VS-TIPI-32K-pcb.thumb.jpg.2a76239dd4e531c8d03f50f2179f331a.jpg

 

The compromises versus the regular TIPI setup are:

  • Both the EPROM and SRAM ICs share a singe 74HCT245 data buffer, Bus loading should be OK but needs to be verified
  • The SRAM address decoding glue logic has to be moved to unused CPLD pins, I'll need to do updates to Verilog code
  • The SRAM and EPROM are mounted on opposite sides of the board, so four single row machined sockets would required in place of regular DIP sockets
  • Many more vias than the regular TIPI
  • No provisions for the EMI shield

VS-TIPI-32K-sch.thumb.jpg.5e83cf7d6b4851d28b309a066e7fa919.jpg

 

I plan to tuck a Pi ZeroW inside the SS housing using a direct board to board mount on the TIPI, and the SD card will be accessible from the speech synthesizer door.  I'll add a power socket on the rear with power switch to cut 5V from the TIPI but not the Pi.   May also add a USB socket for a mouse. 

 

PCB still needs clean-ups and ground fill before fab.  Bad idea or not, I'm having fun with this regardless.   

 

JP

--

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Posted (edited)

OK, Proto Gerbers are ready to go out for fab.  Anyone willing to review schematics/layout before I cut copper? 

 

 

image.thumb.png.3d05fa5738281c75bf4d52734eac5919.png

 

If so, lets start with the schematic.  (PDFs are attached). 

 

Also, the updated CPLD built OK, but I had to use some less than optimal pin for the new RAM CE and A14 address line as the functional blocks I wanted to use had to many inputs already.  Let me know if anyone has any suggestions.

 VS-Tipi-sch-V0.pdf

Edited by J-Data
Updated design files to final as built V0 version
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Is that my misspelling of 'raspburry' pi ?   should be raspberry... on the 'raspburry pi port' in the schematic. I have a hard time accepting that it is spelled the same as the fruit.

 

When I worked the CPLD design, layout drove initial pin assignment, then synthesis drove revisions to layout... 

 

I would personally block out the ground fill at the edges of the edge card.. there's no benefit to them being there, and if the mask gets scraped away, it might become too easy to short GND and the +5v or -5v that are on either ends.

 

Did I mention, this is pretty cool!  Should actually be cheaper to build than the pair of boards.

 

You might consider adding a +5v & Gnd power tap. Someone might want to embed the PiZeroW inside the Speech housing right along with this, and you can power PI Zero Ws by inputing into the GPIO - https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=127965, needs about 230mah... if the +5V from the 4A is not connected, then you should be able to power your board and a PiZeroW together.

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1 hour ago, jedimatt42 said:

Is that my misspelling of 'raspburry' pi ? 

No, that's my bad spelling and editorial skills.  I'll correct.  Agreed on the ground fill next to the card edge connector. 

 

The power taps are a good idea.  I was planning to experiment with powering the current TIPI and 32K off the PI's GPIO connector (not the other way round), but with the option to cut power to the 32K and TIPI when not needed.  Like you, I keep my Pi's powered all the time but want the option to shut down the rest of the hardware when not needed.  I'm trying to keep as much flexibility as possible for all the power option.  I've added a Micro USB for power in, same one as on the PI. I know this isn't the most robust connector, but everyone has a drawer full of phone wall-warts, and a Pi power supply should work well too. 

 

Thanks for the kind words and the feedback.  I'm haven't had this much fun with a project in a long time. 

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I’d be interested in a fully populated board if this makes it to production.

Heck, already have a couple of sideboard tipi’s and PEB tipi’s but it would be incredibly cool to put one in a speech synth.

Would be nice to have a 1MB SAMS on there instead of the 32K though.

Guess 1MB SAMS will become the gold standard for tipi in the future.

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4 hours ago, retroclouds said:

Would be nice to have a 1MB SAMS on there instead of the 32K though.

Agreed, not having the SAMS incorporated is a fatal flaw in this design.  It looks like the 1MB SAMS has way too many parts to fit on the synthesizer’s PCB and some of the ICs are only available in DIP.  

 

This TIPI should work with the sidecar SAMS, but with this TIPI plugged into the TI and the SAMS plugged into the TIPI’s expansion she port.  The TIPI’s internal 32K RAM would need to be disable or it will conflict with the SAMS memory space but this is doable.  Just use the stock TIPI CPLD jedec file rather than my modified version.  We could also make the 32K RAM dynamically selectable .
 

 

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Posted (edited)

Copy of the layout is attached in KiCAD if anyone want's to review. 

VS-Tipi.kicad_pcb

Edited by J-Data
Updated PCB file to final as built V0 version

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image.thumb.png.b5e0722455259a682a73cf1ef65c9011.png

 

Out for Fab.  To lazy to solder fine pitch components myself, so I'm letting the CM solder the SMT parts.

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I know, too much time on my hands. 

 

image.thumb.png.dfd11eb31175794a02585d94a3fec3eb.pngimage.thumb.png.35b2b272f44495f9f53db6c68967f23c.png

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My proto Speech Synthesizer TIPI Boards just came in!

 

20200506_115801.thumb.jpg.cacb226894ca76f6af71c277516600a1.jpg

 

SMT solder job by the board house looks good to me.  15 minutes to solder the through hole connectors and sockets on and install the Pi ZeroW...

 

20200506_161733.thumb.jpg.5071e415efaf8bb78fb9d1b3b131cdf8.jpg

 

CPLD Programmed fine with my new Jedec file...

 

20200506_155240.thumb.jpg.853c1feeaa15166ececc7f8c7e2d8db3.jpg

 

Fits in the Speech synthesizer case really well...

 

20200506_161913.thumb.jpg.37942615adea620d357a96c87d03477a.jpg

 

And the verdict is...

 

20200506_160154.thumb.jpg.9a9f3893b787b9f18f23584ec3466bdd.jpg

 

It works!  Running the 32K RAM burn-in test now, but so far so good at 60 cycles, and all TIPI functions seem to be working great.  Just need to find the best 5V power routing and rear connection.  Have not tried running off the console power yet, but will give it a try.  Very excited!

 

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40 minutes ago, J-Data said:

My proto Speech Synthesizer TIPI Boards just came in!

 

20200506_115801.thumb.jpg.cacb226894ca76f6af71c277516600a1.jpg

 

SMT solder job by the board house looks good to me.  15 minutes to solder the through hole connectors and sockets on and install the Pi ZeroW...

 

20200506_161733.thumb.jpg.5071e415efaf8bb78fb9d1b3b131cdf8.jpg

 

CPLD Programmed fine with my new Jedec file...

 

20200506_155240.thumb.jpg.853c1feeaa15166ececc7f8c7e2d8db3.jpg

 

Fits in the Speech synthesizer case really well...

 

20200506_161913.thumb.jpg.37942615adea620d357a96c87d03477a.jpg

 

And the verdict is...

 

20200506_160154.thumb.jpg.9a9f3893b787b9f18f23584ec3466bdd.jpg

 

It works!  Running the 32K RAM burn-in test now, but so far so good at 60 cycles, and all TIPI functions seem to be working great.  Just need to find the best 5V power routing and rear connection.  Have not tried running off the console power yet, but will give it a try.  Very excited!

 

I've had an empty speech synthesizer box in my desk drawer for years.  This looks like a PERFECT solution for my "portable TI system" that I still plan to make a video about.  How much?  I want it!

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A thing of beauty... Great job! 

 

The TIPI and 32K can easily run off the console side port... ( my sideport tipi is 'hot-wired' so the TI/Ext jumpers are just bridged ) but the PI will still require good clean power, or you get undervolt warnings and all kinds of other trouble... but PI-Zero's have been measured, and there is info out there... 

 

I'm curious how much of a pain it is to set the fab up to solder down the SMT parts for you? The primary reason I don't build TIPIs is it takes 3 hours a board on average, and most of them just sit unused in some facebook dude's collection. 

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Hi @jedimatt42, @Ksarul, @INVISIBLE,  Thanks for the kind word. 

 

I'd be glad to share some of these, especially with people like you, who've contribute so much to this group. 

 

I just tested the TIPI powered off the console and you're right, it works great.  So its a no brainier to use it that way rather than an external power.  I'll play around with powering the Pi Zero off the console since that would eliminate all wires, but I still want the option to keep the Pi powered up all the time.  The all-wireless option would be a very neat parlor trick though.  

 

On setting-up a CM to do the SMT build, Its actually really easy these days and ridiculously cheap. Once you've generated correctly formatted BOM and placement files out of KiCAD, it takes only a minute to drop them on the board house's web interface,  review their placement and rotation data, and approve.  I used an off-shore PCB/SMT proto shop, one I also use at work.  I know this is going to be hard to believe, but in quantities of 10 or so assemblies, the price per unit with all SMT parts placed can actually be less than the parts alone from Digikey or any US equivalent.  It almost crazy to build them by hand with that in mind.  I'd be happy to send sample files or run you though the process if you're interested. 

 

This design is clearly not for the power users who already have TIPIs, but maybe it could be a way to substantially bring down the TIPI cost, and possibly raise the population of users out there. 

 

One last gratuitous proto picture.  I did get one in a synthesizer housing and working tonight, (Pi still externally powered).  Really lucky how how quickly this all came together.    Thanks for the help and support. 

 

20200506_214221.thumb.jpg.051aea7d2f8925fc8b0b422b51205a52.jpg

 

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I think my future will require "updating" the speech synthesizer case to reflect "TIP/32K".  I'm thinking a transparent Dymo label and some clear spray paint for a sealant.  

 

An RPi Zero W paired to ones cellphones "WiFI Hot Spot" will let one easily call Heatwave with a "portable TI setup".  I plan to take vacation in July or August my long planned video may finally come to fruition!

 

I'm SOLD!  I was hesitant at first to even consider a Pi0W, but in this case...  HELL YES!

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