XL keyboard technical drawings

[flemingt]

Try looking at those files in an online gerber viewer, if the silkscreen says rev D then it should be the most up to date.

[+scorpio_ny]

1 minute ago, flemingt said:

Try looking at those files in an online gerber viewer, if the silkscreen says rev D then it should be the most up to date.

Great! Would it be possible to create the zip file in the directory again too? It makes it very convenient to upload and not worry about missing a file or file corruption.

 

[flemingt]

4 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Would it be possible to create the zip file in the directory again too?

No problem. Done for the Main and the Aux boards in their respective gerber folders. Updated the readme file about the Aux board PCB thickness'.

[+scorpio_ny]

34 minutes ago, flemingt said:

No problem. Done for the Main and the Aux boards in their respective gerber folders. Updated the readme file about the Aux board PCB thickness'.

Thank you very much!

 

[ivop]

17 hours ago, flemingt said:

Try looking at those files in an online gerber viewer, if the silkscreen says rev D then it should be the most up to date.

Can you tell what changed between Rev B and Rev D?

[flemingt]

Let's see...

 

I moved some of the holes to better align with the metal backplane.

I moved the position of the power LED and removed the little peninsula it was on.

I moved the ribbon cable solder points, for both the keyboard to mainboard and keyboard to option board so that they don't overlap as much. This is better for assembly and cable routing.

[gianlucarenzi]

Just a clue: is there any chance to have a single PCB instead to broke that pcb in two? Is it for bad alignement for the function keys?

Now I am downgraded the latest version of your project @flemingt to Kicad v5 as I have this in my working machines. So I am replicating the edge cuts to reflect yours.

Then I will change the spacebar size to 7u and adding two 1u extra keys (Left Alt and Right Alt) beside it, just to fill the gap.

And lastly I will change the shift keys to a more common 2.25U (left) and 2U (right) instead of 2.5U and 1.75U.

I have all keycaps done.

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by gianlucarenzi

[ivop]

5 minutes ago, gianlucarenzi said:

Just a clue: is there any chance to have a single PCB instead to broke that pcb in two? Is it for bad alignement for the function keys?

I don't think a single PCB could work, because the functions keys are mounted slightly lower.

 

5 minutes ago, gianlucarenzi said:

Now I am downgraded the latest version of your project @flemingt to Kicad v5 as I have this in my working machines. So I am replicating the edge cuts to reflect yours.

Then I will change the spacebar size to 7u and adding two 1u extra keys (Left Alt and Right Alt) beside it, just to fill the gap.

And lastly I will change the shift keys to a more common 2.25U (left) and 2U (right) instead of 2.5U and 1.75U.

I have all keycaps done.

[image]

If I were you, I'd change the spacebar to 5u and add two 1u keys left, and two 1u keys right, and route them as F1, F2, Spacebar, F3, F4. The XL Rev. 2 OS still supports the 1200XL keys.

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi @flemingt and @ivop,

 

 

I hope everything is well! As I mentioned before, I was interested in a plate for this keyboard. I took some time to get me myself familiarized with Kicad, Inkscape and Tinkercad. After some trial and error, I was able to extract  the layout from the board design to get an .STL to work from. When I started to work o this, I wanted to build upon the previous work that was already done. I have still some mistakes to correct, but I am pleased with the initial result.  Before I go further, I want to post it to see if there are any requests or ideas that could be implemented.

 

  

Here is the initial full prototype

 

It is printed into two parts so that it can fit most 3D printer bed.

Here it is on the PCB. I have to add the cutouts for the spacebar holders (forgot to add) and I need to adjust some of the cutouts for the switches. The alignment with the switches with the plate and PCB is good! I populated switches at different locations to check the alignment. I also tried different brand of switches too. To fit the spacebar stab holders, I had to snip a small piece from the top and it would fit on both sides. The plate(s) itself doesn't not adhere to PCB at all. They are held in place by the switches. Even without soldering the switches, the PCB holds pretty well.

 

Also, I made some observations working with some of the parts and components between my 600XL and 800XL.

1.  I has some problems with the left mounting bracket fitting my PCB. I had printed a couple of time and it seemed that it was slightly too short or the cutouts for the board are too narrow. I am in the process of looking into it to see where the issue is.

2.  I may have missed it somewhere, but it would be a good idea to post the dimensions of the board so someone just uploading to to get it manufactured can make sure it is read correctly. When I upload to JLPCB, I got the dimensions of  111x346 mm.

3.  The screws that mount the the keyboard to the frame for the 600XL and 800XL are different in size.  So I was not able to use the mounts with the 800XL screws.  The heads are different sizes. I have posted the pictures with the measurements:

                       

4.  As I mentioned earlier, the PCB. Card to connect the keyboard with motherboard on 800XL needs to be 0.6mm . At 0.8, it will not fit. I just received my new batch at 0.6 mm and I can confirm it does fit.

5.  It seems that the connector for the spacebar is different from the keycaps. I had some trouble fitting the keycap adapters and it seems it may be slightly smaller. I am going to take a closer look.

6.  It may be a good idea to make it clearer where to cut on the board (on the white line? Left of it? Right of it?) I only say this that if it is cut incorrectly, it can affect the fitting and alignment.

7. On the right PCB mount adapter, there does not seem to be a cutout on the lower square part for the PCB? Is this by design?

 

Please let me know if you have any questions!

 

[ivop]

Very cool! ?

11 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

6.  It may be a good idea to make it clearer where to cut on the board (on the white line? Left of it? Right of it?) I only say this that if it is cut incorrectly, it can affect the fitting and alignment.

It's exactly on the line. Perhaps it would be nice to have a line at the bottom silkscreen, too. That would make it easier to use a boxcutter instead of a hacksaw or dremmel.

 

[flemingt]

On 7/1/2022 at 6:07 PM, gianlucarenzi said:

Just a clue: is there any chance to have a single PCB instead to broke that pcb in two? Is it for bad alignement for the function keys?

Now I am downgraded the latest version of your project @flemingt to Kicad v5 as I have this in my working machines. So I am replicating the edge cuts to reflect yours.

Then I will change the spacebar size to 7u and adding two 1u extra keys (Left Alt and Right Alt) beside it, just to fill the gap.

And lastly I will change the shift keys to a more common 2.25U (left) and 2U (right) instead of 2.5U and 1.75U.

I have all keycaps done.

 

I'm pretty sure it has to be 2 PCBs to maintain the relative height differences. The original metal backplane in my system has a kink in it to form the mylar to the correct height. The split PCB and 3D printed bracketry maintains that spacing.

[flemingt]

57 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Hi @flemingt and @ivop,

 

 

I hope everything is well! As I mentioned before, I was interested in a plate for this keyboard. I took some time to get me myself familiarized with Kicad, Inkscape and Tinkercad. After some trial and error, I was able to extract  the layout from the board design to get an .STL to work from. When I started to work o this, I wanted to build upon the previous work that was already done. I have still some mistakes to correct, but I am pleased with the initial result.  Before I go further, I want to post it to see if there are any requests or ideas that could be implemented.

 

  

Here is the initial full prototype

 

It is printed into two parts so that it can fit most 3D printer bed.

Here it is on the PCB. I have to add the cutouts for the spacebar holders (forgot to add) and I need to adjust some of the cutouts for the switches. The alignment with the switches with the plate and PCB is good! I populated switches at different locations to check the alignment. I also tried different brand of switches too. To fit the spacebar stab holders, I had to snip a small piece from the top and it would fit on both sides. The plate(s) itself doesn't not adhere to PCB at all. They are held in place by the switches. Even without soldering the switches, the PCB holds pretty well.

 

Also, I made some observations working with some of the parts and components between my 600XL and 800XL.

1.  I has some problems with the left mounting bracket fitting my PCB. I had printed a couple of time and it seemed that it was slightly too short or the cutouts for the board are too narrow. I am in the process of looking into it to see where the issue is.

2.  I may have missed it somewhere, but it would be a good idea to post the dimensions of the board so someone just uploading to to get it manufactured can make sure it is read correctly. When I upload to JLPCB, I got the dimensions of  111x346 mm.

3.  The screws that mount the the keyboard to the frame for the 600XL and 800XL are different in size.  So I was not able to use the mounts with the 800XL screws.  The heads are different sizes. I have posted the pictures with the measurements:

                       

4.  As I mentioned earlier, the PCB. Card to connect the keyboard with motherboard on 800XL needs to be 0.6mm . At 0.8, it will not fit. I just received my new batch at 0.6 mm and I can confirm it does fit.

5.  It seems that the connector for the spacebar is different from the keycaps. I had some trouble fitting the keycap adapters and it seems it may be slightly smaller. I am going to take a closer look.

6.  It may be a good idea to make it clearer where to cut on the board (on the white line? Left of it? Right of it?) I only say this that if it is cut incorrectly, it can affect the fitting and alignment.

7. On the right PCB mount adapter, there does not seem to be a cutout on the lower square part for the PCB? Is this by design?

 

Please let me know if you have any questions!

 

That looks great. As for requests... why not just incorporate the PCB holding bracketry into the plate? It might make it a bit big for typical build plates, and need different partitioning, but it would probably make for a stronger design.

Similarly for the Keyboard stabilizers?

 

Incorporating the plate and the brackets would address point #1 since the slots would no longer be needed.

I will add #2 to the github.

#3 It should be easy enough to expand the holes for the screw heads, but let me know if you want to incorporate the brackets into the plate first.

#4 Good to know, I'll make sure that's on the git hub too.

#5 really, can you post a picture?

#6 agreed. I just cut through the line.

#7 if we're visualising the same feature (or lack thereof) yes, by design to aid insertion of the board. A dab of hot glue can lock it in place.

[+scorpio_ny]

5 hours ago, flemingt said:

That looks great. As for requests... why not just incorporate the PCB holding bracketry into the plate? It might make it a bit big for typical build plates, and need different partitioning, but it would probably make for a stronger design.

Similarly for the Keyboard stabilizers?

Incorporating the plate and the brackets would address point #1 since the slots would no longer be needed.

I am that glad you mentioned this. I was actually thinking about incorporating the brackets. There were a couple of reason why initially I did not go for it:

1. I wanted to see where you guys wanted to go with the designs. I wanted complement the previous designs, not compete.

2. Each half of the switch plates takes about 4 hours  to print at my printers lower quality setting. Adding the bracket to the plate would add more to the print time and more complex to print.

3. I like the design  that the stabs are separate items. This allows possibility of different designs that can be incorporated and changed out without having to change/reprint the whole half plate. Ditto if the stab holder becomes damaged. An example of of a possibility  is that one could print custom stab mount adapters to accommodate commercial stabilizers (I know I am).

4.  We would probably need different PCB bracket adapters to accommodate the differences in height with the other Atari keycap sets. So one set of plates could accommodate the different designs.

 

I really think that the original concepts of the separate brackets and stabs was really well thought out! It allows a lot flexibility to accommodate different design ideas, different keycaps and allows for easy repair if a single part becomes damaged. 

 

Quote

#5 really, can you post a picture?

Sure! Here you go! I measured inside with the caliper.

Quote

#7 if we're visualising the same feature (or lack thereof) yes, by design to aid insertion of the board. A dab of hot glue can lock it in place.

I attached a photo. What I am noticing is that when I put on the bracket on the PCB, it bends ever so slightly because there is no groove/slit on one side of the where it touches the PCB.

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by scorpio_ny
Correct spelling of words and added more comments and corrected grammar

[flemingt]

I did some quick messing about this morning and the GitHub instructions have been updated. Similarly the stls for the brackets; there's now an extra slot in the region you highlighted and the recesses for the screw heads widened to accommodate the 800xl screws.

[+scorpio_ny]

7 hours ago, flemingt said:

I did some quick messing about this morning and the GitHub instructions have been updated. Similarly the stls for the brackets; there's now an extra slot in the region you highlighted and the recesses for the screw heads widened to accommodate the 800xl screws.

Thank you @flemingt! I will download them and try them out. With the brackets more sorted out, I can continue making adjustments to the switch plate and try them out in the 800XL.

 

[flemingt]

59 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Thank you @flemingt! I will download them and try them out. With the brackets more sorted out, I can continue making adjustments to the switch plate and try them out in the 800XL.

 

No problem. When you're happy with the switch plate design I'm more than happy to host on my GitHub and credit you in the readme.

[+scorpio_ny]

21 hours ago, flemingt said:

No problem. When you're happy with the switch plate design I'm more than happy to host on my GitHub and credit you in the readme.

Thank you @flemingt! I will post the files when I make I am finished revising them.

 

[NuClear235]

Any progress, please?

Edited December 7, 2022 by NuClear235

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi @NuClear235,

 

Are you referring to the plate for the keyboard? If so, yes! I got a little sidetracked with life and other projects, but I have been working on and off on things related to this project. I will be posting what I have been up to shortly.

[NuClear235]

Super, thank You.

How about PCB? I need one.

Is possible to buy it?

Or have to let make myself?

Is documentation updatet to last version-holes for 5pin switches or so?

So many questions in the air 🙂

[flemingt]

@NuClear235

I finished work on the PCB a long time ago.

You will have to get the boards made yourself.

It has provision for 5 pin switches.

All the files are on my github: GitHub - flemingt/project-helena: Atari XL keyboard replacement

 

I can't wait to see the plate design @scorpio_ny

[NuClear235]

What keycap adapters wil I need to MX switches?

Now I have non-well working these switches and keycaps. And PCB is broken and damaged.
I want to use linear Cherry MXs.

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi @flemingt and @NuClear235,

 

I can show a little bit what I have been up to. The reason I took so long is because I am making the plate work for two versions of the Atari XL keyboards: the one that uses the Stackpole design and the one that uses Futaba swtiches. @NuClear235, I also have the same version keyboard that you have that is not working, so I had to do some work to acommode it 😀. I also have been working some updates on the stab holders, the plate support and create a swtich adapter to accomodate the Futaba keys.  My second goal was to make sure that they work both on the 600XL and 800XL as well.  I will have a write up soon. Here is a pic of the current design with keys from the Futaba swtich.

 

 

[NuClear235]

I need it for my 600XL. Is possible my type of switches to make working? Now are not well sliding.

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi @NuClear235,

 

I am not sure if you understood from my photo, but I am working on adapters to so one can use the keycaps your version of the keyboard with MX switches. The photo is of those very same keycaps on a MX switch. 
 

That being said, this is not a commercial venture. When I am done, I will make the the files that I am working on available for others to use. Based from his other posts, it seems that @gianlucarenzi may be looking to set something up to sell complete keyboards to end users who do not want to build their own.