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Igor

Lynx 2020 Programming Competition

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Speaking of fair rules, even though I seldom have the time to read the rules in detail (since I write about the competitions but don't participate), I don't remember seeing a coding competition with a rule stating a maximum number of members in a team. Which I find weird because I often see games made by one or two persons while some can benefit from a "whole" (albeit usually small) team. It's no big deal anyway since most of the time, the prizes are not incredible, and I'm not attacking anyone here; I'm just wondering about that...

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On 11/24/2020 at 7:18 AM, agradeneu said:

- straight ports of existing fullfledged/professionally done games are unfair IMO, especially if large parts of code and graphics are taken/copied/ripped form a source, sometimes even without permission. Its also not very creative to say the least. 1:1 Ports should not be part of a compo. As much as I am impressed by MK Lynx, it was just not a fair entry at all, but there are other examples too.

 

 

I fcking dare you to make game similar to MK level for Lynx. I dare you. Then you would realize how much effort and work it took.

 

Another thing - Lynx Mortal Kombat was done 100% from scrach. Every byte and idea was done by us without looking to . I created fighting-engine for Lynx and MK project straight from my head. So fkc off. Not very creative? Could be / could be not.  Its also HARDER when you want to reach very high level of the project. Because people can compare it to other version. Sometimes its easier to make new game because there is no comparison and you just fly with the flow. Our target was to bring "impossible" to Atari Lynx. Whatever. With our tools proably could make decent shooter in 3 days for the compo, instead of 3 months of hard work with MK. But you know better.

 

So please stop saying bs like "large parts of code (...) are taken/copied/ripped" when you have zero idea how the project rolled. You talking about fairness? Then look at your post again. 

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I think this topic is going a bit off hand :)

 

@solo/ng Maybe Agra's tone (and mine to some extent) was not the greatest but we didn't insult anybody. Yes Agra assumed that you reused the code... Well that just proves how much your game is on par with the arcade ;) Apart from that we praised your game for the extraordinary technical achievement! Now I hope it's still ok in this world to say that presenting a port of a beloved game clearly gives an advantage in a competition.

 

Just a (hopefully) constructive discussion where we get to explain and understand each other pont of view... and I'm thankful for @laoo last posts which made me realized that we just looked at the compo with different eyes.

 

No need to insult anyone... Peace! :)

Edited by LordKraken
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Just now, LordKraken said:

I think this topic is going a bit off hand :)

 

@solo/ng Maybe Agra's tone (and mine to some extent) was not the greated but we didn't insult anybody. On the contrary we praised your game for the extraordinary technical achievement. Now I hope it's still ok in this world to say that presenting a port of an existing beloved game gives an advantage in a competition. Nobody is trying to insult you or your work. Just a (hopefully) constructive discussion where we get to explain and understand ech other pont of view... Peace! :)

I disagree. Saying stuff like "large portion of the code was copied/ripped" without even asking how project rolled is an insult. Especially when I know how much stuff we had to do/invent to make it possible on this level. Then this Joe come and post "fair" posts like that. What a joke.

 

The port situation is another topic. For AtariGamer we did an original game (comp rules). For SV we did MK (compo rules) and yeah I know what you mean. 

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Agra can defend himself but he's a (great) artist, not a coder. That's probably why and I corrected his assumption right after his post actually.

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3 hours ago, solo/ng said:

I fcking dare you to make game similar to MK level for Lynx. I dare you. Then you would realize how much effort and work it took.

 

Another thing - Lynx Mortal Kombat was done 100% from scrach. Every byte and idea was done by us without looking to . I created fighting-engine for Lynx and MK project straight from my head. So fkc off. Not very creative? Could be / could be not.  Its also HARDER when you want to reach very high level of the project. Because people can compare it to other version. Sometimes its easier to make new game because there is no comparison and you just fly with the flow. Our target was to bring "impossible" to Atari Lynx. Whatever. With our tools proably could make decent shooter in 3 days for the compo, instead of 3 months of hard work with MK. But you know better.

 

So please stop saying bs like "large parts of code (...) are taken/copied/ripped" when you have zero idea how the project rolled. You talking about fairness? Then look at your post again. 

laoo already cleared that part up, no need for you to storm the house, go berserk and lash out with insults. 

Edited by agradeneu
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3 hours ago, LordKraken said:

What made the game slow was actually not the BLL sprite engine, but my collision algorithm that was doing very unnecessary stuff.

What is this "BLL sprite engine"?

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7 minutes ago, LordKraken said:

Agra can defend himself but he's a (great) artist, not a coder. That's probably why and I corrected his assumption right after his post actually.

I am not speaking in behalf of our team. Its just my personal opinion. 

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21 minutes ago, LordKraken said:

Now I hope it's still ok in this world to say that presenting a port of a beloved game clearly gives an advantage in a competition.

@solo/ng gave a good point that it's not that obvious:

 

27 minutes ago, solo/ng said:

Its also HARDER when you want to reach very high level of the project. Because people can compare it to other version. Sometimes its easier to make new game because there is no comparison and you just fly with the flow. Our target was to bring "impossible" to Atari Lynx.

Reaching to cult titles is very risky, because if you'll make shitty port you'll be eaten alive and you'll benefit only if your work will be exceptional. On the other hand you risk nothing with original game.

We just took the risk... and didn't win that competition anyway as original game scored better - what may be an anecdotal disproof of your statement ;)

 

 

Edited by laoo

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I praised your work a lot of times, but you refuse to get the point: It's not about your or my vanity or a pissing contest who is best and brag about it.  MK is one of the worlds biggest IPs, multibillion dollar worth. I might be only a stupid "Joe" with no knowledge in programming or demoscene culture, but there are laws of copyright. 

And that most likely includes the essential character designs, movesets, graphics and the trademark. It's extremely risky to use that, even if its non profitable and considered grey area stuff. So, setting boundaries would only work in your favour and for everyone.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

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Ok I've been away for almost a week in hospital, now I'm back lets get back on topic please.

 

The mini competition is going ahead still, there won't be any prizes or ranking/voting so the rules will be much more relaxed (in some ways) vs the usual AtariGamer compos and since all of AtariAge, ejagfest and Sillyventure are enforcing it, I'm going to be borrowing some of the rules and ideas from them too.

 

Keep an eye out, it will be announced on the 1st of December.

 

@Turbo Laser Lynx - regarding Rpi400, it still has the same 40 pin GPIO header so you'd just need an adapter cable I'd imagine. I'll see about buying one to try it out for compatibility.

Edited by Igor
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2 hours ago, Igor said:

Ok I've been away for almost a week in hospital, now I'm back lets get back on topic please.

 

The mini competition is going ahead still, there won't be any prizes or ranking/voting so the rules will be much more relaxed (in some ways) vs the usual AtariGamer compos and since all of AtariAge, ejagfest and Sillyventure are enforcing it, I'm going to be borrowing some of the rules and ideas from them too.

 

Keep an eye out, it will be announced on the 1st of December.

 

@Turbo Laser Lynx - regarding Rpi400, it still has the same 40 pin GPIO header so you'd just need an adapter cable I'd imagine. I'll see about buying one to try it out for compatibility.

I could try the Pi 400 today. Afaik there should be no problems. On a related topic I just ported the 3D development environment to Pi 400. And also got the Vulkan drivers to work on it. Here is my first attempt for making a 3D game. You can also use a normal Pi4 and an external keyboard. The speed and software is the same. The Pi 400 has 4GB of RAM. But you should be able to use 2GB as well. So here is no reason to get a Pi 400 if you already have a Pi 4B.

StartingTheDesign.thumb.png.1ae542a5aaf2d10d90ec5dced59ff227.png

 

I also created the game music already.

 

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I just tried the Pi 400 with the programmer HAT.

 

[email protected]:~/lynx/contrib/blankcart/programmer $ ./readcart -a titan.lnx
Cart size 512k with 2048b block size
Chip manufacturer ID is bf, flash ID is b7
Reading Lynx cart data to file titan.lnx
Reading block 256 / 256 [ 100.00% ] Elapsed time is 91 seconds
Read complete, time taken was 91 seconds
[email protected]:~/lynx/contrib/blankcart/programmer $ 

I truly recommend getting the Black Hack3r from Pi Hut or Pimoroni. It is an extension board for HAT boards.

20201129_161558.thumb.jpg.330f311fea8e58be4bf51e4fa2812f70.jpg

[email protected]:~/lynx/contrib/blankcart/programmer $ ./writecart titan.lnx 
Chip manufacturer ID is bf, flash ID is b7
Flashing Lynx cart from titan.lnx
Block size is 2048
Writing block 256 / 256 [ 100.00% ] Elapsed time is 712 seconds
Write complete, time taken was 714 seconds
[email protected]:~/lynx/contrib/blankcart/programmer $ 


 

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That's excellent, thanks for sharing Karri! Is that just an IDE cable?

Have you tried connecting the hat directly without a cable?

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7 hours ago, Igor said:

That's excellent, thanks for sharing Karri! Is that just an IDE cable?

Have you tried connecting the hat directly without a cable?

The Black Hack3r comes with a black cable. But it is already in use in my FLIRC Pi4 so I just crimped a 40 pin cable for trying it out with the Pi 400.

The cable is very short so there is no difference if the HAT is directly on the connector or on the extension board.

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1 hour ago, Igor said:

Would you mind sharing a photo with the hat connected directly to the pi400?

Sure. But I prefer to keep it separate just to reduce mechanical stress when inserting carts.

20201201_161418.thumb.jpg.352fa2cd7d728c9abbbe32648eee7c80.jpg

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Thank you! I forget you got one of the prototype boards as well as the black production board. Need the new red board to make the whole set 😅

I'll add a section on supported Pi models I think so I'll use that photo.

I found a Pi Model A+ at home, want to see how slow that goes!

 

Actually I had someone report a seg fault bug when writing the MK ROM, I'm going to look into it today.

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I disappear for a week and now using the word "they" in a normal fashion is offensive and the christmas compo is actually a demoparty. Nice. People here seem to get offended very easily. If you want to see someone REALLY ignore (and actually ignore probably by choice rather than passively not knowing) the details, there is plenty of that in youtube comments sections. There is this one sega fanatic called Tornado1994 that comes to mind if you can find some of his/her posts.

On 12/1/2020 at 2:16 PM, karri said:

Sure. But I prefer to keep it separate just to reduce mechanical stress when inserting carts.

20201201_161418.thumb.jpg.352fa2cd7d728c9abbbe32648eee7c80.jpg

Seeing that like that reminds me of the ZX spectrum joystick interface I have (my dad must have bought it separately but thinks it came with when it shouldn't have), which I don't like that much, but it plugs in the back like all interfaces and sticks up like that with the port facing you so any joystick or gamepad has the wire coming across the keyboard. I think it is called the RAM (that's the brand name, because when running a computer accessory company you have to name it after whatever irrelevant technical word you hear the most. it doesn't add extra RAM) joystick interface or somethng like that. But it sticks up on exactly the same side and everything. Sorry for the absolutely awful image quality.

WIN_20201202_23_20_52_Pro.jpg

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