1050 Dos problems

[JGroth]

Hi everyone,

So I've decided to join the Atari world after being a C-64 fan. I bought a 800XL (works well) and a 1050 drive (didn't come with a PSU nor a SIO cable but those have been ordered).  The drive also didn't come with dos diskette. So I wonder how do I load Dos so I can format the empty floppies I bought as well? Or do I need a Dos diskette at all? Like I said, used to a C-64 and a 1541 drive to which you sent commands to format, delete, rename files etc, ie Dos as such as it where was in the firmware of the disk drive.

Is there a similar way to access the floppy diskette on the Atari system or do I need to buy a Dos diskette (3.0, 2.5 or similar)?

 

Regards,

JGroth

 

[TGB1718]

Welcome

 

If you want to format floppies, you will need DOS loaded into the 800XL, this can be as you say a DOS disk (please don't get DOS 3.0)

There are many to choose from, most people ase using a vairety of SIO devices to simulate disk drives, on these they have amongst other things

DOS, games, utilities, programming languses, really most of the Atari 8bit catalogue.

 

There are many links in this forum.

 

Look for SIO2USB, SDrive-Max, SIO2PC, Respqt, there are others, but those seem to be the most popular.

 

 

[manterola]

I am sure some member can send you a Dos diskette (where are you located?). But in reality, you need some kind of disk drive emulation solution in the long term. 

Even if you really like to recreate the 80's experience and keep using the 1050, something like sio2pc will help you to copy the software downloaded from internet to real diskettes (like that dos diskette you need). 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by manterola

[+skr]

Manterola is right: I would send you some disks to start with. So, where are you located? Send me a PM and let me help you getting started.

[JGroth]

8 minutes ago, manterola said:

I am sure some member can send you a Dos diskette (where are you located?). But in reality, you need some kind of disk drive emulation solution in the long term. 

Even if you really like to recreate the 80's experience and keep using the 1050, something like sio2pc will help you to copy the software downloaded from internet to real diskettes (like that dos diskette you need). 

 

 

 

Well, I'm located in the UK so if someone is willing to send me Dos 2.5 (is that the latest Dos?) I would be very grateful. I so would like to recreate the 80's experience (just hearing the mechanical sound of the disk drive brings waves of nostalgia). Yes I'm been bitten by the retro bug really hard. Still though not sure how a SIO2PC device would help me create a Dos diskette. I would still need SW in the 800 to receive it which means I have to load it from somewhere and right now a 1050 is the only thing I got. So please explain to a complete Atari newbie how a SIO2PC device would help me create a Dos diskette (a SIO2PC USB has been ordered BTW, from Lotharek's lair, but with COVID-19 raging across the world it will probably take a couple of weeks before I receive it).

 

Regards,

JGroth

[JGroth]

9 minutes ago, skr said:

Manterola is right: I would send you some disks to start with. So, where are you located? Send me a PM and let me help you getting started.

Why thank you very much. I'm located in the UK. Should also say that I'm very new to a forum, I usually email people. So PM, is that a Personal Message or a Public Message, either way I think I would need help to find the right button to send you my details.

 

Regards,

JGroth

 

[mimo]

You would set the 1050 as drive 2 and copy DOS from the SIO2PC device to the real disk (there is an option in DOS to allow this IIRC)
PM would be personal message

 

[JGroth]

4 minutes ago, mimo said:

You would set the 1050 as drive 2 and copy DOS from the SIO2PC device to the real disk (there is an option in DOS to allow this IIRC)
PM would be personal message

 

OK, I don't know how to set the 1050 as drive 2 but that is a question for later. What really puzzles me is "there is an option in DOS to allow this IIRC". How do I access DOS from a SIO2PC device (I might make a bit assumption here that you need to load some SW to the 800XL for it to be able to talk to a PC, please tell me I'm wrong).

So PM is Personal Message, cool, thanks. How do I send one?

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions, I should perhaps have posted this to a newbie forum or something like it.

 

Regards,

JGroth

 

[TGB1718]

Just to clear up what SIO2USB, SDrive-Max etc can do, they hold disk images DOS , games etc. no software is required on the Atari, the devices

emulate Atari disk drives, basically you create an SD card on your PC with all you .ATR files, set the device to drive 1 connect to the SIO port, turn

on and it will boot the selected image, not used an SIO2USB, but SDrive-Max can emulate up to 4 disk drives.

 

If you set your 1050 as drive 2 and connect to the Atari, then plug your emulated drive into the second SIO port on the 1050 with a DOS .ATR, then boot

the Atari, you can then get DOS to format the disk in the 1050 and copy files freely between both devices.

Edited April 1, 2020 by TGB1718

[manterola]

Basically, from the Atari computer point of view, the sio2pc, sdrive-maxx, etc look like regular disk drives. So, let's say you set your real drive 1050 as drive 2 (D2:)  and configure the emulated drive , let's say sio2pc, as drive 1 (D1:) and you load into that emulated drive the DOS (a DOS image you downloaded from internet, which is a file which contains the whole diskette data). 

Then you just power up the Atari, and by default it will boot using the D1: and it will get you to the DOS menu. 

After that, you use an option in the dos menu to duplicate a diskette, so you can do duplicate D1: into D2:, so then you will have a copy of DOS in D2: which happen to be your real drive.

It is a good idea to read a document (someone please  help me here since I could not find it) created by a member of this forum, with multiple
 "activities" or projects to do with your Atari, from very simple to complicated. I guess one of the activities is to create a real diskette from a disk image download from internet. He explains better than I.

edit:

found!:

http://atariprojects.org/2018/09/29/connect-your-atari-computer-to-a-pc-15-30-mins/

http://atariprojects.org/2018/08/26/make-new-floppy-disks-15-30-mins/

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by manterola

[JGroth]

I do thank you all for this information. So SIO2PC USB, RespQT or AspeQT (something like it) is all I need part from ATR images, one with DOS on it. I downloaded DOS 2.5 ATR to use in the Atari800 emulator. Is that image usable with real HW as well?

Can't wait for a SIO2PC device and I guess I've got a lot of reading to do.

 

[manterola]

Yep, once your sio2pc arrives you need to install in your windows/mac/linux computer RespeQt, or aspeQt, and there are more. With that you can use the same ATR image you used with the Real Thing.

 

[Rybags]

Without other means it's theoretically possible to use an Atari tape drive to load a program to create a Dos disk.

I think I might have created a rescue Dos maker years ago.  Though it's not worth buying a tape drive just for the purpose since there's cheap SIO2PC types available.

[+kheller2]

To make this concept easier to understand...

 

Retro setup:

Atari <-> 1050

 

Use a PC as if it were an Atari peripheral:

Atari <-> PC (windows, linux, MacOS)

You boot your Atari from the PC and have access to whatever emulated devices are available by the program on the PC, be it disk drives, tape drives, printers, serial ports etc..

 

Use an Atari peripheral with a PC:

1050 <-> PC (windows, linux, MacOS)

You can use some programs to directly read and write the disk images to the Atari floppy from the PC.

 

A new concept for C64 folks is that each Atari SIO device has its own identifier and instance of it. (I say new, but you don't have to crack open your drive and solder stuff to change drive numbers)

 

Atari <-> 1050 #1 <-> 1050 #2 <-> 810 #3 <-> 1010 Cassette <-> 1027 Printer <-> 850 Serial/Parallel Device <-> 1030 Modem

(Floppy drives are numbered 1-4, and could be flashed to be 5-8, so you could have 1-8 floppy devices available to you)

 

The scenarios describe above:

Atari <-> 1050 #2 <-> [floppy emulator, PC or device] #1

You always boot drive #1.  So when the Atari is up, you can copy any data from #1 to #2, such as a DOS boot disk. You can then remove the floppy emulator, set the 1050 to #1 and boot it with the new disk you created.

 

[+slx]

The drive number of the 1050 is set with two switches at the back and the drive number of the SIO2PC is set with the software running on the PC. If you buy a combined SIO2PC-10502PC cable you can also use a software called APE from Atarimax to write directly to the 1050 from a PC. 
 

Data transfer should be indicated by a series of beeps that is very typical for the Atari.