Help me get my "new" Apple IIgs working!

[+sixersfan105]

I'm brand-new to the Apple II scene after dabbling in 68k Macs over the years. Couldn't pass up an excellent deal (under $130 shipped) on a IIgs ROM03 motherboard bundle with an AppleColor RGB Monitor, two 5.25 disk drives, one 3.5 disk drive, original keyboard and mouse, along with all corresponding cables. You rarely hear about deals like that where everything works out of the box, and my IIgs luck has been no exception. 

 

Turning the system on runs the self-test unprompted. Here are the results of said self-test. Can anyone help me decipher? Would love to get this thing up and running.

[R.Cade]

https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/apple2/faq/08-002-What-does-IIgs-Diagnostic-Self-Test-Error-Code-___-me.html

 

So...

Self Test 6: Serial Test 

AA = 06: 

BB = 01: Register R/W 

 

That's not good- I haven't seen that one before. It could be bad serial controller chip on the motherboard, or something else causing that test to fail.

 

Did the battery leak out onto the board?

Edited April 1, 2020 by R.Cade

[+sixersfan105]

Thanks, @R.Cade. This is helpful. Oh yeah, there was a significant battery leak that I cleaned up as best I could with some isopropyl alcohol and Q-tips. Got some guidance on Facebook to try washing the whole board in a vinegar and distilled water solution to get the remaining battery corrosion off. Here are pics of what the board looks like my initial round of cleaning with just Q-tips and isopropyl (I have not yet done the vinegar/water cleaning).

[R.Cade]

Oh that's bad... You've probably got some trace damage around various chips, but for openers look at the crystal by "SER CLOCK". Make sure that is attached well and oriented back where it goes and the legs aren't touching each other. If that crystal is damaged you will get this failure.

 

EDIT: Oh man, I was able to magnify your photo. I see lots and lots of trace and chip leg damage. I would be surprised if this works at all or you can fix it.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by R.Cade

[+sixersfan105]

Ok thank you I'll give that a shot to start.

[Lee Adamson]

Oh man, that looks dire. 

 

I had a ROM3 box that got smashed to bits in shipping, so I snagged a ROM1 box with no peripherals and put the ROM3 board in that enclosure.  So tl;dr, I have a spare ROM1 board with no case to put it in.

 

I was thinking about putting it in a IIe enclosure and soldering in the keyboard and power connectors, but I have too many IIe mobos too lol.

 

Anyway, if you can't get that beastie going, I'd be willing to trade you my spare ROM1 board for some kind of interesting old computer bit + maybe your dead board (might be interesting for me to make a youtube video of trying to fix it sometime, heh, although it looks pretty bad!).  AFAIK there's functionally not really any difference between ROM1 and ROM3 boxen if you've got a RAM expansion, once the OS is booted.  Just that ROM3 has the newer toolkit in ROM and doesn't have to load it from disk and waste a little bit of RAM on it.

 

I also have a couple RAM cards if you need one.  One's an Apple card, fully populated.  One is an AE card, I think 2meg maybe?  It's the mid-range one, whatever capacity that is.  Can't remember for sure.  And I also have a modern 8meg card, but it only works in ROM1 boards so I'm a shade leery of it (GGLabs), although it does work fine in both ROM1 boards I've tested it in.  I think I have an extra PSU that works ok too, though I haven't recapped it.  And a monitor that had its case smashed up in shipping, but still seems to work ok, though I'm kinda keeping it for spare parts in case my good monitor ever croaks.

 

Let me know if you need any parts.  My extra mobo/ram cards aren't doing me any good at the moment, so it would be nice to send them to a good home where they'd be more appreciated.  I'd rather trade for interesting old computer stuff than sell for cash, though.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, the battery is soldered in on the ROM1 boards, and the first thing I do is dike those acidbombs out of there before I store them.  So you'll have to attach a battery if you want the PRAM to hold settings.  I leave the leads long enough to be able to plug one of those pin-header-type battery packs onto.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Lee Adamson

[+sixersfan105]

Thanks, @Lee Adamson. I'll shoot you a PM later tonight to see if we can work something out. 

[Lee Adamson]

Cool.  I mean, try the vinegar wash too, maybe it will magically fix your board.  Stranger things have happened.  I wouldn't hold my breath though, heh.  ;(  You probably have some traces eaten away, very possibly underneath some of those ICs.  So to fix your board you'd probably have to ring out those traces, install bodge wires, and probably end up having to desolder some of those ICs to clean under there properly and see where the traces are supposed to go.

 

I'd probably try to neutralize the corrosion on the RF shield as well, and sand the rust off and shoot it with a rattle can.  Otherwise it'll just get worse and/or rust again.

 

Even with the dead board, I think you still got a fair deal just for the monitor and disk drives, so I don't think I'd try to return the machine if I were me.  We'll getcha running somehow or other!

 

I'm hitting the sack here in a few, so I may not get your PM until I get home tomorrow night.

[GameGeezer]

I'd be interested in the board for parts if you do not end up trading it. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by GameGeezer
Typo

[+sixersfan105]

I wound up working out a trade but thanks for the interest, @GameGeezer. 

[Lee Adamson]

Hey folks.  Please feel free to join me on my crappy YouTube channel as I attempt to repair the mobo in question.

 

Oh god, it's bad.  Lol.

 

 

 

PS: I'm going to have to replace the IWM chip.  It was used in the IIc, IIgs, Liron controller card, and certain old Macs.  If anyone happens to have a dead board that has that chip on it, I'll buy/trade for it.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Lee Adamson

[GameGeezer]

10 hours ago, Lee Adamson said:

Hey folks.  Please feel free to join me on my crappy YouTube channel as I attempt to repair the mobo in question.

 

Oh god, it's bad.  Lol.

 

 

 

PS: I'm going to have to replace the IWM chip.  It was used in the IIc, IIgs, Liron controller card, and certain old Macs.  If anyone happens to have a dead board that has that chip on it, I'll buy/trade for it.

That is precisely what I needed off the board. :/

 

I know of no source for them, other than other mainboards, although one company has cloned the Liron card, so they may have them. 

 

One of my //gs bench test system boards died an early death when someone connected a raw Mac 800k mech to it, instead of the 3.5 Drive. I suspect either the IWM or the SLOTMAKER, as it boots to the ROM logo screen, but it locks up there, and it will not open the control panel. 

 

It's a shame that the old Apple SP blue binder books do not cover component-level repair. I have never before seen this particular issue, but clearly connecting that drive blew something, and the IWM is my prime suspect. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by GameGeezer

[Lee Adamson]

Well, if worst comes to worst, I do have an extra DB-19 floppy card out of a thrashed Plat IIe, somewhere(tm)....  But I don't think it will run 3.5" drives, just 5.25"s.  And even if it is a Liron card, those are actually way more valuable than a working IIgs mainboard, so I won't tear it apart, lol.

 

Someone on another forum said that the old Macs used a DIP package S/IWM chip that is different than the IIc/IIgs one.  Maybe it's some of the Mac IIs that use the surface mount IWM chip??  I'll have to look in my IIci and see.  If that's the case, I'd think I could get a thrashed Mac II mainboard for a little bit o' nothing, somewhere.

[GameGeezer]

12 hours ago, Lee Adamson said:

Well, if worst comes to worst, I do have an extra DB-19 floppy card out of a thrashed Plat IIe, somewhere(tm)....  But I don't think it will run 3.5" drives, just 5.25"s.  And even if it is a Liron card, those are actually way more valuable than a working IIgs mainboard, so I won't tear it apart, lol.

 

Someone on another forum said that the old Macs used a DIP package S/IWM chip that is different than the IIc/IIgs one.  Maybe it's some of the Mac IIs that use the surface mount IWM chip??  I'll have to look in my IIci and see.  If that's the case, I'd think I could get a thrashed Mac II mainboard for a little bit o' nothing, somewhere.

 

The early SE used a WIM, but it is DIP. Later models used the SWIM, and that may be pin compatible. IIRC, it is, and the only thing keeping a //gs from using a SuperDrive, should you put a SWIM in place of the WIM, is that the ROM doesn't have routines for 1440K diskettes. IIRC, the Mac Portable used the PLCC WIM. 

 

Don't destroy a Liron card for this. The Liron used the DIp package WIM chi, so it isn't a direct fit replacement, and I'd sooner trade you a good chip, for it. You can buy aftermarket Lorin cards, and I will see if I can source the WIM for you. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by GameGeezer

[Lee Adamson]

I dug it out to check, it's not a Liron card, just a plain-jane 5.25 card.

 

I read somewhere that the Macs SE and II came with a socketed IWM, and could be upgraded to a SWIM.  But after looking at some mobo pictures, I don't see any such thing (at least not in the same package as the IIgs), so the internet may have lied (imagine that lol).

 

Even if the SWIM would drop in and function, I have a nagging feeling that I'd lose 5.25 support.  Isn't there some basic incompatibility between the way the Apple 2 and Mac smartports are implemented?  I know that there are certain models of 3.5 drive that will fry a IIc/IIgs, and they say that plugging a 5.25 into a Mac will fry it, too.  But I've never studied up on the exact reason.

 

Also turns out that the IIc uses a DIP package IWM, so it looks like I may be stuck with having to harvest one from a IIgs board, as I 'spect any Mac Portable board functional or not will cost too much.  And I 'spect that any dead IIgs board that I get will probably be in better shape than the one I am trying to fix, lol.

 

I got the IWM and the serial clock chip desoldered last night.  Another pin disintegrated on the IWM (for a total of two missing), and one pin on the serial clock chip was eaten off at board-level enough that it broke when I pulled the chip, though I think placing it in a good socket will be enough to make contact.  Haven't edited the video for that yet though.  If I end up doing much SMD reworking, I'm going to have to get a hot air station, lol.

 

So I guess *if* I ever get far enough to try the thing with a disk, I'll use my 5.25 controller card, and maybe if I eventually get everything fixed except the IWM, then maybe the BMOW Yellowstone card will be released by then (liron clone on fpga) and I can just slot one of those.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Lee Adamson

[+sixersfan105]

1 hour ago, Lee Adamson said:

I got the IWM and the serial clock chip desoldered last night.  Another pin disintegrated on the IWM (for a total of two missing), and one pin on the serial clock chip was eaten off at board-level enough that it broke when I pulled the chip, though I think placing it in a good socket will be enough to make contact.  Haven't edited the video for that yet though.

I'm looking forward to Part II of the video series!

[GameGeezer]

9 hours ago, Lee Adamson said:

Also turns out that the IIc uses a DIP package IWM, so it looks like I may be stuck with having to harvest one from a IIgs board, as I 'spect any Mac Portable board functional or not will cost too much.  And I 'spect that any dead IIgs board that I get will probably be in better shape than the one I am trying to fix, lol.

 

I got the IWM and the serial clock chip desoldered last night.  Another pin disintegrated on the IWM (for a total of two missing), and one pin on the serial clock chip was eaten off at board-level enough that it broke when I pulled the chip, though I think placing it in a good socket will be enough to make contact.  Haven't edited the video for that yet though.  If I end up doing much SMD reworking, I'm going to have to get a hot air station, lol.

 

So I guess *if* I ever get far enough to try the thing with a disk, I'll use my 5.25 controller card, and maybe if I eventually get everything fixed except the IWM, then maybe the BMOW Yellowstone card will be released by then (liron clone on fpga) and I can just slot one of those.

SomeMac models use the DIP package IWM. I suppose that you could make an adapter if needed to convert them, although IDK the pinouts offhand. 

 

If a socket doesn't suffice, it's time for umper wire, which I need to do on a few keyboards. The KB in the //c+ tat I obtained is a trainwreck. Someone clearly lifted traces, and it had a number of solder oints that look like someone tried to solder it with a cigar torch. There were also the telltale 'ball of solder on a pin, not connected tot he board' solder 'points' that seak volumes on how the person who tried to replace switches had never soldered before in their life. 

 

I fixed a few of the issues, but now it is repeating the arrow key endlessly, so, I need to put it under a magnifier to see what is happening.

 

Then, I have a //e keyboard with some split traces, that will become a umper-fest.

 

I do hope that the Yellowstone card is made, and I hope that it supports 3.5 drives, not only Unidisk. 

[Lee Adamson]

And we continue this Sisyphean project.  Lol.

 

 

[R.Cade]

You can Dremel the top corner of that chip where the pin has broken off and expose enough to bodge it. You need a better soldering iron, though... and a Dremel. (Or "rotary cutting tool") 

 

I have the same sickness you do with repairing these things. You may have quite a bit of work ahead of you on the vias though. I had an Amiga like that once and it got worse as time went by. The "proper" way is probably to drill them out, but you can soak in vinegar and seal it up with clear nail polish to stop the corrosion from continuing.  It needs oxygen to eat...

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by R.Cade

[Lee Adamson]

Funny you mention that.  I was shopping for a new tip for my iron earlier this evening and ended up just buying a whole new soldering station with an iron and a hot air gun.    Along with a desoldering gun.  (gee, thanks, beer.)

 

But man, that iron has been with me for decades.  I bought it at radio shack when I was in jr high school, and have been using it since.  I just gotta sharpen the tip and it'll be fine again, right!?  @_@  *punches self in face*

 

I have a dremel (s'what I was using to cut that edge connector off in pt1).  I was thinking the same thing about taking off the corner (indeed, I mentioned it originally and then cut that part out for time's sake).  Or a mill might be a more precise way to shave it off a little at a time.  My neighbor has one of those mini-mills but I have been head-scratching a little about the best way to put the chip in the vise.

 

What kind of bit do you use in your dremel for such an operation?  What speed do you run it on?  Maybe I ought to practice on some sacrificial chips first, since I'll only have one shot at this one.

 

"Drilling out", you mean the vias, right?  I was gonna cook them in some flux, suck all the solder out, scrape the solder mask off the traces for like a millimeter on both sides, and then solder a piece of wire through.  I figured that the solder + flux ought to cook out/displace/neutralize any remaining alkaline funk hanging around down in there, as long as the solder penetration is good.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Lee Adamson

[R.Cade]

I would just use the small "abrasive point" tip and start working right above where the leg broke off. You should be able to work it back a couple of mm and get to something you can solder onto. Very minimal risk. Do you also have a magnifying light?  I can't work without one of those anymore.

 

 

[Lee Adamson]

Well, I have a magnifying glass, but despite my best efforts I haven't been able to mutate a 3rd arm, so that makes soldering with it difficult sometimes.    But when I really have to, I can kinda hold the solder between pinky and ring finger, glass in other fingers, and solder that way.

 

I can still see fine up close if I take my glasses off, though.  I may only have one good eye, but it's twice as good!  =:3  (or something)

 

And yeah, I guess that chip is junk otherwise, so no actual loss if I *do* mess it up more.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Lee Adamson

[R.Cade]

You can get one with a light built in that either is a visor on your head (like a jeweler) or one that clamps to your desk (I have the latter). But if you still have a good eye, that's good. Mine quit about 8 years ago.

[Keatah]

Wonder how much Alkaline got in between board layers and spread. And of course it's conductive and can generate electricity by way of electrolysis - further mucking up sensitive CMOS-class circuitry.

[Lee Adamson]

Maybe I need to actually soak the thing in vinegar instead of just spraying it.  Then I guess I'd have to soak it in alcohol for a while to get the vinegar out, heh.

 

I think it's just a 2-sided board though, unless there is a ground plane in the middle.