Champ Sports Baseball (Atari 2600)

[+D Train]

Vancouver Mounties!

 

[+KaeruYojimbo]

I'd love to see Montreal included as one of the teams (there's no rule saying you can only use current MLB cities after all). 

[intergalactic419]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:40 AM, johnnywc said:

I was at least thinking of having injuries as an option that could occur with bean balls, sliding, running into the wall, diving for a ball, etc.  It would be configurable but for sure a bell/whistle.

Hopefully with no possibility of injury for Ripken and Gehrig haha.

 

Thoughts at this point of DH batting in lineup or pitcher batting?

Will pitchers have attributes? Velocity, movement, stamina? If playing a tournament or season will the same starting pitcher be available in the following game?

 

Reflecting back to playing sports games in my youth I think they were more fun if the teams were left unbalanced. When you played someone head to head you both tried to pick the best available team. If you played on your own you picked your favorite team. Once you had the game down on your own, you then picked the worst team and tried to win the championship for fun. So I'd vote to grade out the players and let the differences be.

 

Just for fun right now, teams limited to 16, 8 national, 8 american, with including Seattle and the Jays are grading out as follows:

Tier 1 - Yankees, Red Sox, A's, Tigers

Tier 2 - Giants, Dodgers Cards,

Tier 3 - Cubs, Braves, Phils, Indians, Twins(with old Washington), Mariners (giving them Arod over Yanks, giving them Canoe over the Yanks, Beltre since no Rangers, and Big Unit with no Arizona)

Tier 4 - Pirates and Reds as they both have a shocking lack of top tier pitching. With pitching Pirates would have been tier 2-3, Reds tier 3

Tier 5 - Jays. That 77 year head start really helps the other franchises, Team Canada, Jays and Expos? It would help them a lot.

Tiers done by using Bill James stat analysis player rankings by position and coding each team starting lineup based upon players falling 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40 all-time for their respective positions.

 

 

 

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

On 4/15/2020 at 11:01 AM, Nathan Strum said:

I'm hoping Vancouver BC might get a team someday. Besides a local rivalry, Seattle would have some company as the most geographically disadvantaged team.  

I've been to a number of Vancouver Canadians games and they're pretty fun to go out and watch. ? 

 

- James

[+D Train]

On 4/22/2020 at 1:31 AM, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

I've been to a number of Vancouver Canadians games and they're pretty fun to go out and watch. ? 

when champsports baseball comes out, maybe you can get them to sponsor the show...

[uosipa llamxew]

I'm not much of a sports person, but I love sports in video game format... Baseball is one of my favorites to play.  I love the look of what you have here, but haven't checked yet if there is a link.  

 

Thoughts - maybe others have said before (I didn't read the thread yet) - I have long thought it would be cool to have a homebrew Wiimote-like controller for the VCS.  I love Wii Sports Baseball and it is still probably my most played game!  Another favorite Baseball game is probably Bad News Baseball on NES.  I love the animations - like Double Dribble, but stylized and better. 

Cheers.  I am watching this one for sure!

 

(I noticed the announcment date... perfection!  Oh, happy day!)  #goodnews

Edited April 24, 2020 by cm5vam9mbHRy

[uosipa llamxew]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:03 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Too bad that baseball is utterly boring for me. ?

I hate spectator sports...  but I love the game logic and rules of these things.  I love boxing, for example, but hate it in real life... American Football for that matter, but Madden is fun.  

 

For that matter, porn is like that for me.  I'd rather be involved in the game.  LOL, okay, bad spectator joke.

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

7 hours ago, uosipe llemxaw said:

Thoughts - maybe others have said before (I didn't read the thread yet) - I have long thought it would be cool to have a homebrew Wiimote-like controller for the VCS.  I love Wii Sports Baseball and it is still probably my most played game!  Another favorite Baseball game is probably Bad News Baseball on NES.  I love the animations - like Double Dribble, but stylized and better.

It exists! It's called Le Stick and I have one!

 

 

[uosipa llamxew]

 I am on it!!!

[Big Player]

This looks great.  Are you using the ARM processor? Asking for a friend.

[easmith]

"I'm thinking each team could be an "all time" greats collection of players.  I'm not sure how this would work as some teams would be stacked (NY, I'm looking at you!) but overall I think this would be the best way to go. "

 

 

 

I will definitely be in the minority on this , but I always liked the Accolade games or games like NES Baseball Stars where teams were fictional and players were made up.   Keeps the game timeless in a way.

 

Could always have a NL Alltime greats vs  AL Alltime greats  exhibition game mode

 

 

 

 

[Dutchman2000]

Looks good!  Hopefully this leads to a new series of sports games!  Champ Games Basketball and Hockey please!

[+johnnywc]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:11 PM, Big Player said:

This looks great.  Are you using the ARM processor? Asking for a friend.

Quite the opposite actually... I've managed to get this to run in just 128 bytes of RIOT RAM!   

 

Seriously though, yes it does use the ARM and 32K (CDFJ bankswitching).    

[+johnnywc]

4 hours ago, easmith said:

"I'm thinking each team could be an "all time" greats collection of players.  I'm not sure how this would work as some teams would be stacked (NY, I'm looking at you!) but overall I think this would be the best way to go. "

 

 

 

I will definitely be in the minority on this , but I always liked the Accolade games or games like NES Baseball Stars where teams were fictional and players were made up.   Keeps the game timeless in a way.

 

Could always have a NL Alltime greats vs  AL Alltime greats  exhibition game mode

 

Good points!  We'll just be using jersey numbers (no names) most likely to save space but we'll see what makes sense when we get to that part of the design.  I do love the old Accolade games, especially Hardball and 4th & Inches!   

[+johnnywc]

21 minutes ago, Dutchman2000 said:

Looks good!  Hopefully this leads to a new series of sports games!  Champ Games Basketball and Hockey please!

Thanks!  If the reception for CS Baseball is good, I would love to continue with hockey and basketball (and even football too!).    

[intergalactic419]

5 hours ago, easmith said:

 

I will definitely be in the minority on this , but I always liked the Accolade games or games like NES Baseball Stars where teams were fictional and players were made up.   Keeps the game timeless in a way.

 

Could always have a NL Alltime greats vs  AL Alltime greats  exhibition game mode

 

 

 

 

I think going all time greats essentially accomplishes both goals in this instance. As only jersey numbers will be used, only those with baseball knowledge or those interested in determining who is who will know which players are actually represented. Those people really want the real teams and characteristics of the players as part of the game. Others solely interested in game play will just know it as "hey this number 3 guy can really crush it on the New York team." Or "24 on Oakland is really fast and good at stealing bases". Or this New York Team can really slug and the St Louis team are speed demons. Timeless.

 

 

[intergalactic419]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:40 AM, johnnywc said:

Although I'd like to use names, the space needed would be too much, plus they would have to be made up anyway.  I was considering jersey numbers so that would at least help identify most of the players; they old timers we could assign numbers and between the team and skills people could determine who that player is supposed to be.  Jersey #'s also only take up 1 byte but assuming we go with 10 characters max for a name (which isn't much), 16 teams, 16 players per team means 256 bytes for the jersey #'s vs. 2,560 bytes for names (and we're talking 32K for the entire game  ).  When I played Homerun in 1978, I would squint and pretend the red team were the Red Sox, the blue team were the Yankees, and Cartlon Fisk was facing Goose Gossage.  For this game we hope to make it a bit more believable (less squinting needed) but probably won't be able to reach the level that Earl Weaver Baseball and the later baseball games did (which had a lot more space).  Also, if we plan on allowing teams to be saved to the Atarivox, there is only so much room on the Atarivox that is shared by all games of all developers.  I would like to keep the total space needed for Champ Sports Baseball under 256 bytes for the Atarivox to save room for other developers (and other Champ games too!).  Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know that although I'd love to have all these bells and whistles, we do want to strike a balance between playability and simulation given the limited resources.  

I appreciate you explaining the constraints as I'm learning and impressed by the constraints you have to work in when designing a game choosing what to cut and what to keep.

When you are using numbers and teams are taking 256 bytes does each digit take a byte? What if a player is #32, is that 2 bytes or still 1? So bytes are 256 minimum up to maximum 512? Or are numbers always 1 byte no matter the size while characters are a byte for each letter?

 

Would TC on Detroit be an option for a player if the player represented by TC never had a jersey number? Could Home Run Baker be represented by HR? Or is that to close to using names?

 

MLB is running an all-time team bracket right now which is strikingly similar to rosters I formed using research. MLB's rosters present a few problems as they have multiple players on multiple teams (Arod on Yanks and Mariners, Jimmie Foxx on Athletics and Red Sox) which mine corrected for, and they have some silly ommissions like Addie Joss not on Indians. For those that don't know the all star game was started as a benefit for Addie Joss as he died young and was one of the top pitchers of his time. 

 

 

[+fdr4prez]

5 hours ago, johnnywc said:

Thanks!  If the reception for CS Baseball is good, I would love to continue with hockey and basketball (and even football too!).    

I love football (soccer) - I can't wait! 

 

Hopefully you'll give some love to the NFL, too 

?

[Big Player]

8 hours ago, johnnywc said:

Quite the opposite actually... I've managed to get this to run in just 128 bytes of RIOT RAM!   

 

Seriously though, yes it does use the ARM and 32K (CDFJ bankswitching).    

Ha, you took a while to respond, so I was worried the ARM-haters had got to you.?

 

I am now a software developer.  Really new, started my first job 3/2/20. What a time for a career change! But it sure beats accounting.

 

Right now I have my hands full learning every for my job but I hope one day to use this new technology to make a 2600 homebrew.

[+johnnywc]

17 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

I think going all time greats essentially accomplishes both goals in this instance. As only jersey numbers will be used, only those with baseball knowledge or those interested in determining who is who will know which players are actually represented. Those people really want the real teams and characteristics of the players as part of the game. Others solely interested in game play will just know it as "hey this number 3 guy can really crush it on the New York team." Or "24 on Oakland is really fast and good at stealing bases". Or this New York Team can really slug and the St Louis team are speed demons. Timeless.

 

 

I agree and I am leaning towards this.  What we're striving for is to allow players to pick teams that match their strengths (hitting, fielding, running, small-ball etc.) but also have teams that are 'stacked' so players can essentially choose their skill level by purposefully choosing a 'weaker' team (and I use the term loosely since all the players will be 'all stars') for a greater challenge or pitting a home run hitting team vs. a singles/small ball team, etc.  Plus, coming up with rosters/lineups will be much easier based on real players.  

16 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

I appreciate you explaining the constraints as I'm learning and impressed by the constraints you have to work in when designing a game choosing what to cut and what to keep.

When you are using numbers and teams are taking 256 bytes does each digit take a byte? What if a player is #32, is that 2 bytes or still 1? So bytes are 256 minimum up to maximum 512? Or are numbers always 1 byte no matter the size while characters are a byte for each letter?

Using BCD (binary coded decimal), you can store 2 numbers in one byte so that's why that would be the most efficient way.  

16 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

 

Would TC on Detroit be an option for a player if the player represented by TC never had a jersey number? Could Home Run Baker be represented by HR? Or is that to close to using names?

Unfortunately BCD only allows for numbers, but we can always make #'s up for players that didn't have jersey numbers as all the other attributes will be the same.  We may have overlaps with #'s too (different players from different eras that had the same # on the same team) so we'll need to be creative.    

16 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

MLB is running an all-time team bracket right now which is strikingly similar to rosters I formed using research. MLB's rosters present a few problems as they have multiple players on multiple teams (Arod on Yanks and Mariners, Jimmie Foxx on Athletics and Red Sox) which mine corrected for, and they have some silly ommissions like Addie Joss not on Indians. For those that don't know the all star game was started as a benefit for Addie Joss as he died young and was one of the top pitchers of his time. 

 

I should start a spreadsheet so we can start adding in potential teams, players, attributes, etc.  I think we should avoid having the same player on different teams; we can make the choice based on what balances a team more, or whatever team the player spent the most time with or had the most impact.  It would be interesting to have Babe Ruth on the Red Sox as a pitcher and on the Yankees as a right fielder though.   

 

Thanks for the suggestions!  We're looking forward to getting back to CS Baseball development soon!  

[+johnnywc]

12 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

I love football (soccer) - I can't wait! 

 

Hopefully you'll give some love to the NFL, too 

?

 Although I'm no a huge soccer fan (I did watch the New England Revolution play back in the early 80's) and don't like playing it, I do like video game soccer.   RS Soccer was a real disappointment (I enjoyed M-Network Soccer and Pele's Championship Soccer much more) so a good soccer game is definitely a possibility! 

Edited May 2, 2020 by johnnywc

[+johnnywc]

9 hours ago, Big Player said:

Ha, you took a while to respond, so I was worried the ARM-haters had got to you.?

  I don't think there are any haters out there, just non-ARM developers trying to educate people on the differences between ARM and non-ARM development to promote an appreciation for both.   

9 hours ago, Big Player said:

I am now a software developer.  Really new, started my first job 3/2/20. What a time for a career change! But it sure beats accounting.

 

Right now I have my hands full learning every for my job but I hope one day to use this new technology to make a 2600 homebrew.

Congratulations!  When you're ready to take the dive, there are a ton of resources here on AA that would be glad to get you up and programming!   

[+D Train]

1 hour ago, johnnywc said:

I should start a spreadsheet so we can start adding in potential teams, players, attributes, etc.

are you taking requests?  '53 dodgers

 

also looking forward to champsports curling and roller derby

 

?

[intergalactic419]

2 hours ago, johnnywc said:

I should start a spreadsheet so we can start adding in potential teams, players, attributes, etc.  I think we should avoid having the same player on different teams; we can make the choice based on what balances a team more, or whatever team the player spent the most time with or had the most impact.  It would be interesting to have Babe Ruth on the Red Sox as a pitcher and on the Yankees as a right fielder though.   

 

Thanks for the suggestions!  We're looking forward to getting back to CS Baseball development soon!  

I have a spreadsheet color coded I can send over. A page for each team, each team having columns listed by position and appropriate candidates.  Cells color coded if a candidate ranks in the top 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40 all-time of their respective position. I kept players limited to one team. I really focused on the the oldest teams and the Mariners and Jays since you had them as popular requests. Also some position adjustments (I.E. Tigers Cabrera has played more games at 1st then 3rd, but the game is more fun to put him at 3rd so Hank Greenberg can play 1st).

 

Come on now, do your Red Sox really need Babe Ruth? haha. They already have a potential rotation of Pedro, Clemens, Smokey Joe Wood, and possibly Cy Young (he should go to the Indians). Actually I think it would be fun to have Ruth represented as a pitcher with Red Sox and hitter with Yankees, and each team should have one fun throw in.

 

Happy to work on attributes if you decide on the final players and what attributes you want.

 

 

[+sramirez2008]

9 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Actually I think it would be fun to have Ruth represented as a pitcher with Red Sox and hitter with Yankees, and each team should have one fun throw in.

This!