Champ Sports Baseball (Atari 2600)

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Will the included teams be based on real teams? Perhaps teams from the 1980's (baseball's best decade)?

[+Nathan Strum]

They'll be based on real cities. But not heavily-copyrighted teams.  

[+Nathan Strum]

3 hours ago, AdeptRapier said:

One humble suggestion...please have random "organ guy baseball theme music" playing during the game! When I was a kid our local baseball stadium actually had a guy playing the organ and singing baseball songs during the games...watching a game, eating a hot dog and listening to him play...nothing was better!!

Sound is going to be a very important part of the game, and we have some fun ideas planned.
 

Pretty sure you'll have to provide your own hot dogs though.  

[Omegamatrix]

Will there be any sound effects included for a guy banging on a garbage can up in the stands? 

[+Nathan Strum]

21 minutes ago, Omegamatrix said:

Will there be any sound effects included for a guy banging on a garbage can up in the stands? 

Well, the code name I gave the game in my blog was "Trash Can", so...  

[+KaeruYojimbo]

55 minutes ago, Nathan Strum said:

They'll be based on real cities. But not heavily-copyrighted teams.  

I was more wondering if there would be any differences between the teams besides cosmetics. Like, are Oakland and Kansas City the same except one wears green and gold and the other baby blue, or does one hit more home runs vs. the other having faster runners?

[+Nathan Strum]

Just now, KaeruYojimbo said:

I was more wondering if there would be any differences between the teams besides cosmetics. Like, are Oakland and Kansas City the same except one wears green and gold and the other baby blue, or does one hit more home runs vs. the other having faster runners?

Yes, teams will have different strengths, weaknesses and tendencies.

[+D Train]

1 hour ago, Nathan Strum said:

They'll be based on real cities. But not heavily-copyrighted teams.  

Sheboygan?

Visalia?

Elmira?

Tri-Cities?

Walla Walla?

Perth Amboy?

 

[hizzy]

Will hockey come out soon?

[+johnnywc]

On 4/10/2020 at 4:06 PM, Kaboomer said:

@johnnywc gotta add this to the WIP part of your AA forum signature

 

Done!  

On 4/10/2020 at 4:13 PM, Omegamatrix said:

John, I really like the way you drawed the the diamond. It came out well. I feel Pete Rose Baseball was ultra realistic, but this baseball game just looks a lot more fun. The players look great. Their representation is spot on.

Thanks!  That's what started this all; a proof-of-concept to see how it would look with alternating PF colors of brown and white to get the baselines/bases/etc.   We originally also had alternating dark/light green for the grass which looks pretty cool, but we didn't have enough cycles to keep it in. ?  PRB certainly looked really good and plays okay, we're shooting for more of a arcade/simulation combo.  The players are quick placeholders done by Nathan so I'm sure they'll look even better in the final release!  

5 hours ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

Will the included teams be based on real teams? Perhaps teams from the 1980's (baseball's best decade)?

Like Nathan said, the "teams" will be city names (US) based on cities from MLB teams.  I play on having 2 "leagues" or conferences, each with 8 teams (this number may change).  I have made a list of possible cities; the only 2 that are sure bets are Boston and Seattle (since those are mine & Nathan's "teams").  Oh, and New York for @sramirez who is a big Yankees fan and will be doing some of the initial 2-player testing with his son (thanks Steve!).  For the other teams I will most likely choose them myself or have some sort of poll.  We do want to add a team editor that will allow you to update at least 1 of the teams (maybe 2) and save it to the Atarivox.  

1 hour ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

I was more wondering if there would be any differences between the teams besides cosmetics. Like, are Oakland and Kansas City the same except one wears green and gold and the other baby blue, or does one hit more home runs vs. the other having faster runners?

To add to what Nathan said, we're debating about rosters, skills, features to add to the game so we have a good balance of arcade action and simulation.  Here are my thoughts (none of this has been implemented yet so suggestions are welcome):

• Each team will have a set roster, most likely 15 or so players (25 is a normal roster but that is overkill since we are not going for a full blown simulation).  This should be enough for a starting lineup, multiple pitchers, and a few pinch hitters/runners.
• Each player will have pre-defined skills for running, hitting, fielding, and throwing (like a number between 1 and 10).  They will also have primary and secondary positions.  Instead of names (which are copyright), I was thinking each player could also have a jersey # so you would know who it is (ie. "Now batting for the Yankees, #3 the right fielder").   Players are also identified by what arm they throw with and if they are left or right handed batters (or switch hitters).
• Each team will have a pre-defined starting lineup (order players bat) that can be altered before a game.  Changes to starting line ups for custom teams could be saved to AVox, meaning your custom team can simply be an edited version of the NY team.
• I'm thinking each team could be an "all time" greats collection of players.  I'm not sure how this would work as some teams would be stacked (NY, I'm looking at you!) but overall I think this would be the best way to go.  I would probably hold a poll of some kind to get people's votes on which players should be included on each roster, or I may get most of the info from resources like Earl Weaver Baseball, the Hall of Fame, research, etc.  I personally love baseball history so this would be the most fun part of making this game for me!  
• We would like to add in pinch hitting, pinch running and pitching changes to utilize the rest of the roster.
• The team editor (in theory, I'm not sure if we'll be able to do it) would allow you to change jersey #'s and skills for each player, with a way to make sure that you don't 'max out' each skill (either have a max total skill per player or per team, or a "super star" bonus you can add to a few of your players to boost certain skills). 
• Teams will have their own pre-defined uniform colors and ball park (ball parks will have a specific turf type (real or artificial) and outfield dimensions).  Not sure if I'm going to include wind factor yet.   The editor (if we make it) would allow you to change uniform colors and associate the team with a different ball park.

Whew!  Certainly a pretty big wish list and I'm sure not all of it will make it in, but that's what we're thinking.  Again, our goal is to create an enjoyable baseball game that is accessible to many people (read: pick up and play) but have enough customizable options and features to suit baseball simulation junkies (like myself) without having it be too complicated.

 

Right now we're focusing on making the game fully playable as a baseball game and will start adding some of these features in with an eye on available space, etc.

 

 

[+johnnywc]

29 minutes ago, hizzy said:

Will hockey come out soon?

Champ Sports Hockey was supposed to be the first "Champ Sports" release, but Nathan and I were inspired to do baseball based on the proof-of-concept I did with the field and we're both pretty big baseball fans too.   Assuming the response for CS Baseball is positive and the community supports it, Champ Sports Hockey will most likely be the next Champ Sports game released.  

[+KaeruYojimbo]

59 minutes ago, johnnywc said:

Instead of names (which are copyright), I was thinking each player could also have a jersey # so you would know who it is (ie. "Now batting for the Yankees, #3 the right fielder").   Players are also identified by what arm they throw with and if they are left or right handed batters (or switch hitters).

Another option would be to do something like Roger Clemens Baseball for the NES did and use made up names that are easily identifiable (I remember Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire were called J. Bash and M. Bash).

 

I started doing that when I was re-creating the 1988 American League in Super Mega Baseball 2, but after finishing Baltimore and Boston decided coming up with 280 funny names was more work than I wanted to do.

[easmith]

This looks killer .   I  vote for solid game-play first over bells and whistles.     I would  buy this to PLAY it . 

Sounds like you are already leaning in that direction !   Can't wait for  Champ Bowl   .  

[chewy]

12 hours ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

Will the included teams be based on real teams? Perhaps teams from the 1980's (baseball's best decade)?

wasn't that the '20's?

[chewy]

are we going over 32k here, am i going to have to upgrade my harmony ?

[intergalactic419]

As a huge baseball fan I can't wait to see this come together. Thank you for taking this task on and I hope you find it fun in the process!

On 4/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, johnnywc said:

Like Nathan said, the "teams" will be city names (US) based on cities from MLB teams.  I play on having 2 "leagues" or conferences, each with 8 teams (this number may change).  I have made a list of possible cities; the only 2 that are sure bets are Boston and Seattle (since those are mine & Nathan's "teams").  Oh, and New York for @sramirez who is a big Yankees fan and will be doing some of the initial 2-player testing with his son (thanks Steve!).  For the other teams I will most likely choose them myself or have some sort of poll.

 

If you have to go down to 16 teams how about the oldest 16 which will especially help with all time great rosters. Cubs, Braves, Reds, Cardinals, Pirates, Giants, Phillies, Dodgers, Athletics, Twins(Senators), Tigers, Indians, White Sox, Red Sox, Orioles(Browns), Yankees. I think the teams will all end up looking pretty stacked.

Since Seattle is in, maybe cut the Phillies as Philadelphia will have representation through the Athletics, which had far better Hall of Fame players and a better park (Shibe). Or if you are naming by city cut the White Sox as you'll already have the Cubs for Chicago. Maybe add the Homestead Grays?

 

On 4/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, johnnywc said:

• Each player will have pre-defined skills for running, hitting, fielding, and throwing (like a number between 1 and 10).  They will also have primary and secondary positions.  Instead of names (which are copyright), I was thinking each player could also have a jersey # so you would know who it is (ie. "Now batting for the Yankees, #3 the right fielder").   Players are also identified by what arm they throw with and if they are left or right handed batters (or switch hitters).

Please consider breaking hitting up into average and power if possible. How about instead of names using nicknames. I.E. Ozzie Smith (Wizard of Oz or The Wizard) Just going by number will cause some problems as older all time greats like Cobb, Wagner, Mathewson, Johnson never had numbers.

On 4/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, johnnywc said:

• I'm thinking each team could be an "all time" greats collection of players.  I'm not sure how this would work as some teams would be stacked (NY, I'm looking at you!) but overall I think this would be the best way to go.  I would probably hold a poll of some kind to get people's votes on which players should be included on each roster, or I may get most of the info from resources like Earl Weaver Baseball, the Hall of Fame, research, etc.  I personally love baseball history so this would be the most fun part of making this game for me!  

Yes please on the all time greats! That would keep the long term playability of the game more fun. If you go current rosters in a couple of years the players have moved and most of the journeymen are retired shortly anyway.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, johnnywc said:

• The team editor (in theory, I'm not sure if we'll be able to do it) would allow you to change jersey #'s and skills for each player, with a way to make sure that you don't 'max out' each skill (either have a max total skill per player or per team, or a "super star" bonus you can add to a few of your players to boost certain skills). 

Max total skill per team please! Maybe a few Techmo Bowl style players (Bo Jackson Lawrence Taylor) who are the greatest at their skill, Ruth homeruns, Rickey Henderson stealing at will, Ozzie Smith catching everything in the infield, Cobb Hornsby or Williams always getting on base, Nolan Ryan throwing an impossible to hit fastball.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, johnnywc said:

• We would like to add in pinch hitting, pinch running and pitching changes to utilize the rest of the roster.

Love the strategy, bunting also? I can't wait to have the Orioles/Browns and bring 3'7" Eddie Gaedel off the bench to pinch hit for a guaranteed walk haha.

Possibility of a Beanball that forces the hitter out of the game and or pitcher ejection?

Maybe a few historic pitchers able to throw a limited number of unhittable spitballs or scuffballs strategically throughout the game.

On 4/11/2020 at 5:09 PM, johnnywc said:

• Teams will have their own pre-defined uniform colors and ball park (ball parks will have a specific turf type (real or artificial) and outfield dimensions).  Not sure if I'm going to include wind factor yet.   The editor (if we make it) would allow you to change uniform colors and associate the team with a different ball park.

I second several people's classic park suggestions if you can differentiate each one with certain unique features.

 

One last item if you do historic parks like Polo grounds that had short home run porches but cavernous center fields Triples and inside the park homeruns were common. I know you mentioned doubles and Triples, but don't forget the inside the park jobs.

 

If you want any leg work done, assembling lists of all time greats per team per position for you to choose from or have voted on, uniform numbers, player nicknames, player skill ratings, or unique park features, or one off unique roster guys like Eddie Gaedel. I'm happy to help in any way you want.

 

Otherwise I'm ready to play my kids in this one once I have a boxed copy in my hands!

 

 

[AtariBrian]

If there is a way or space when you are done to make a team navy, orange and white for the Detroit Tigers that would be awesome! ?

[+johnnywc]

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

As a huge baseball fan I can't wait to see this come together. Thank you for taking this task on and I hope you find it fun in the process!

Thank you!

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

If you have to go down to 16 teams how about the oldest 16 which will especially help with all time great rosters. Cubs, Braves, Reds, Cardinals, Pirates, Giants, Phillies, Dodgers, Athletics, Twins(Senators), Tigers, Indians, White Sox, Red Sox, Orioles(Browns), Yankees. I think the teams will all end up looking pretty stacked.

Good points!  I know choosing the final teams will be a challenge that's why I hope to have room for a team editor so someone can override one of the teams and make it their own.  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Since Seattle is in, maybe cut the Phillies as Philadelphia will have representation through the Athletics, which had far better Hall of Fame players and a better park (Shibe). Or if you are naming by city cut the White Sox as you'll already have the Cubs for Chicago. Maybe add the Homestead Grays?

I was thinking the same thing about Chicago since we are using city names.  Due to a non-MLB license we will not be using any team names, logos, player names, etc.  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Please consider breaking hitting up into average and power if possible.

Yes, I was thinking about my last post and I do plan on having contact, power and possibly "bunt" skills for hitters.  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

How about instead of names using nicknames. I.E. Ozzie Smith (Wizard of Oz or The Wizard) Just going by number will cause some problems as older all time greats like Cobb, Wagner, Mathewson, Johnson never had numbers.

Although I'd like to use names, the space needed would be too much, plus they would have to be made up anyway.  I was considering jersey numbers so that would at least help identify most of the players; they old timers we could assign numbers and between the team and skills people could determine who that player is supposed to be.  Jersey #'s also only take up 1 byte but assuming we go with 10 characters max for a name (which isn't much), 16 teams, 16 players per team means 256 bytes for the jersey #'s vs. 2,560 bytes for names (and we're talking 32K for the entire game  ).  When I played Homerun in 1978, I would squint and pretend the red team were the Red Sox, the blue team were the Yankees, and Cartlon Fisk was facing Goose Gossage.  For this game we hope to make it a bit more believable (less squinting needed) but probably won't be able to reach the level that Earl Weaver Baseball and the later baseball games did (which had a lot more space).  Also, if we plan on allowing teams to be saved to the Atarivox, there is only so much room on the Atarivox that is shared by all games of all developers.  I would like to keep the total space needed for Champ Sports Baseball under 256 bytes for the Atarivox to save room for other developers (and other Champ games too!).  Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know that although I'd love to have all these bells and whistles, we do want to strike a balance between playability and simulation given the limited resources.  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Yes please on the all time greats! That would keep the long term playability of the game more fun. If you go current rosters in a couple of years the players have moved and most of the journeymen are retired shortly anyway.

I definitely want to use all time greats if possible for the same reasons you mention.  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Max total skill per team please! Maybe a few Techmo Bowl style players (Bo Jackson Lawrence Taylor) who are the greatest at their skill, Ruth homeruns, Rickey Henderson stealing at will, Ozzie Smith catching everything in the infield, Cobb Hornsby or Williams always getting on base, Nolan Ryan throwing an impossible to hit fastball.

I need to think it through, but yes I'm thinking a max skills per team, max skill per player, and then having perhaps  a couple players you can mark as "all stars" that get a boost in skills and then a "super star" that can have a maxed out skill.  We'll come up with something that is a good balance I'm sure.   

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

 

Love the strategy, bunting also? I can't wait to have the Orioles/Browns and bring 3'7" Eddie Gaedel off the bench to pinch hit for a guaranteed walk haha.

Lol I remember that guy!  Yes, we will have bunting, hit and runs, steals, double steals, pitch-outs, squeeze plays, etc.  The trick is making the game accessible to the casual baseball player (keeping it more arcade-like) without having the simulation/strategy make it a niche game.  Most people I'm sure just want to press a button to pitch, hit, have the players run around the bases, and be able to throw the ball around and not worry about bringing in a lefty to face a lefty with 2 outs in the 7th and having the 1st baseman guard the line and the outfield in with the 3rd baseman charging while the 2nd baseman is bluffing to cover and the catcher calls for a pitchout.   (personally I love that stuff so I hope to be able to add in strategy somehow, even as an option).

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Possibility of a Beanball that forces the hitter out of the game and or pitcher ejection?

Definitely a possibility; I was at least thinking of having injuries as an option that could occur with bean balls, sliding, running into the wall, diving for a ball, etc.  It would be configurable but for sure a bell/whistle. 

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Maybe a few historic pitchers able to throw a limited number of unhittable spitballs or scuffballs strategically throughout the game.

Hmmm, we'll see!  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

I second several people's classic park suggestions if you can differentiate each one with certain unique features.

We hope to do this; we need to come up with a way to even display the wall (not implemented yet) with dimensions and then we'll go from there.    We at least want to have customized fence distance and wall height, and wall color.  We also hope to have an artificial turf option so there would be dirt only around the bases and of course the ball would bounce higher, grounders faster, etc.  If we have injuries they would be more prevalent with artificial turf.   

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

One last item if you do historic parks like Polo grounds that had short home run porches but cavernous center fields Triples and inside the park homeruns were common. I know you mentioned doubles and Triples, but don't forget the inside the park jobs.

Yes, definitely!  I'm sure for the cavernous parks and a good ricochet off the wall, players should be able to make it around for an inside the park homerun.  We are trying to strike up a balance with the field dimensions so there will be a max distance for the fences so we'll see what parks will be able to be represented accurately.  Although my tendency would be to go full simulation in this game, we truly think that a pick up and play game with strategic elements would be much more enjoyable to the community in the long run, so striking up that balance is going to be challenging!  We started this game as a loose port of the arcade game "Championship Baseball"  

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

If you want any leg work done, assembling lists of all time greats per team per position for you to choose from or have voted on, uniform numbers, player nicknames, player skill ratings, or unique park features, or one off unique roster guys like Eddie Gaedel. I'm happy to help in any way you want.

Thank you - I will definitely need some assistance with all that data!  We're still pretty far away from that point (we want to have a playable baseball game with generic players working first), but once we have a better idea about space for skills, players, teams, parks, etc. we can start on this part.    

11 hours ago, intergalactic419 said:

Otherwise I'm ready to play my kids in this one once I have a boxed copy in my hands!

 

Awesome, thanks for all the suggestions! I personally can't wait to play it with my son either!   

 

 

 

[+johnnywc]

On 4/12/2020 at 12:05 AM, chewy said:

are we going over 32k here, am i going to have to upgrade my harmony ?

We plan on keeping the game 32K so probably no need for an upgraded Harmony.  Although I do see the advantage of a larger ROM size (more teams, more options, etc.) I think that really gets away from what kind of game we're trying to make (arcade baseball game with some strategic elements).  Also, Champ Games has 10 or so other projects (including other Champ Sports titles) that we like to work on and larger ROM size will most definitely mean more complicated game taking longer to finish (if ever  ).

10 hours ago, AtariBrian said:

If there is a way or space when you are done to make a team navy, orange and white for the Detroit Tigers that would be awesome! ?

I've always had a soft spot for the Tigers (loved the old Tiger Stadium) so Detroit will most likely be one of the final teams.  

[Jstick]

Hope you can fit Toronto in there, lots of Canadian Atari fans here on these boards 

[+johnnywc]

1 hour ago, Jstick said:

Hope you can fit Toronto in there, lots of Canadian Atari fans here on these boards 

We hope to include at least one Canadian team!  I visited Toronto last year and was able to catch a Blue Jays game, it was a lot of fun!  We were able to get great seats right behind the first base dugout real cheap... I could never do that at Fenway! ? 

[+HatNJ]

I believe Toronto is only Canadian Team since the Expos went Washington

[+johnnywc]

Just now, HatNJ said:

I believe Toronto is only Canadian Team since the Expos went Washington

Correct...  I personally liked the Expos more than the Blue Jays because the Blue Jays are direct rivals to the Red Sox both being the AL East.  It's sad the Expos moved before they had a chance to win a World Series.  1994 they were killing it before the strike hit, and that basically ended baseball in Montreal.  On the plus side, the Red Sox acquired Pedro Martinez from the Expos which helped us break "the curse" in 2004!   

[+sramirez2008]

54 minutes ago, johnnywc said:

...On the plus side, the Red Sox acquired Pedro Martinez from the Expos which helped us break "the curse" in 2004!   

Still can’t believe you guys won four in a row. ☹️

[+Nathan Strum]

I'm hoping Vancouver BC might get a team someday. Besides a local rivalry, Seattle would have some company as the most geographically disadvantaged team.