Dumb Qs from a Nostalgic Newbie

[ajlynx]

I've recently decided I want to indulge my nostalgia and play Qix on Atari like I did as a kid. However, I've now realized I have no clue what I'm doing. I figured out what we used to have was an Atari 1200XL and that those are hard to find now. So here are my (doubtless way too basic for this forum) questions:

1) Does the 1200XL use the same controllers as the 800? (because the only 1200XL I found on ebay doesn't have controllers and the controllers I found only say they're for 800)

2) Does the 800 - or 800XL play Qix and Moon Patrol the same way the 1200XL did? If so am I better off just getting an 800 since those seem to be more available?

3) Any other advice or things I should know?

 

Thanks

[StickJock]

Yes, they all use the same classic 4-way controllers as the 2600/VCS.

 

I love Qix!  As with most games, I usually get killed due to getting too greedy.  They should play fine on the 800 & 800XL.

 

You will likely need a monitor cable to work with a modern TV instead of the old RF connection.

 

Welcome back!

 

[ajlynx]

Thanks!

I'm sure I can find a monitor cable somewhere. I actually have a 2600 that I found in my Grandma's garage and got it connected to our TV w/an adapter, but the controllers don't seem to be working.

I honestly never used the computer features - is it better to just get a straight console (ie 5200) or are there benefits to having an 800?

[_The Doctor__]

definitely, the 800, 800XL, 130XE etc are way more flexible and you get more games.... all three can have upgrades added that lets you play even the newest biggest games and demos...

[ajlynx]

Good to know, thanks. Is there a significant different between an 800 and an 800XL?

[_The Doctor__]

800XL PBI port for extra goodies, newer OS, lots of upgrades for it, almost everything runs on an 800XL/130XE, the 800 is the bee's knees when you upgrade it with incognito... with only a couple misses... it's a tough call. Bang for the buck 800XL/130XE, full on glory 800 plus incognito...

 

[Faicuai]

26 minutes ago, ajlynx said:

Good to know, thanks. Is there a significant different between an 800 and an 800XL?

Well, there are deep / significant differences between the 800 and 800XLs I have lying here.

 

It will all depend, at the end, what is that you functionally want to achieve, and, on the other hand, your "collector's" perspective or interest (what piece of history and technology would you REALLY like to own, beyond your childhood memories).

 

Those two models symbolize two very different times (and philosophies) at Atari, during its commercial life as a company...

[ajlynx]

lol knew I was in over my head here ;p. I want to play Qix, probably Moon Patrol, and now that I've been reminded of their existence possibly Breakout and Donkey Kong. I'm not really a collector or super tech, just a nostalgic gamer *blush*. It sounds like cool things are possible with expansions and tweaking and such and maybe someday my kids or I will get into that, but I don't know enough right now to know whether that'll happen. I'm looking on eBay and have ascertained that a 1200XL isn't happening, so I'm trying to figure out whether I should go for the 800 bundle I found or the 800XL in 2 different scenarios:

a) if the price is about the same

b) if I can get the 800 for significantly less - and if so, how much of a price difference is worth getting the 800 over the 800XL

[Faicuai]

9 minutes ago, ajlynx said:

lol knew I was in over my head here ;p. I want to play Qix, probably Moon Patrol, and now that I've been reminded of their existence possibly Breakout and Donkey Kong. I'm not really a collector or super tech, just a nostalgic gamer *blush*. It sounds like cool things are possible with expansions and tweaking and such and maybe someday my kids or I will get into that, but I don't know enough right now to know whether that'll happen. I'm looking on eBay and have ascertained that a 1200XL isn't happening, so I'm trying to figure out whether I should go for the 800 bundle I found or the 800XL in 2 different scenarios:

a) if the price is about the same

b) if I can get the 800 for significantly less - and if so, how much of a price difference is worth getting the 800 over the 800XL

Doc's answer is already setting you on the right path.

 

But it is important you clearly define what do you identify with, or what your interest / curiosity is, since all the titles you mentioned can. indeed, be played on both platforms.

 

It is what comes NEXT, after you get comfy. and interested on the HW possibilities where the differences will arise...

 

Also, it does depend (as well) on the condition / state of the HW you are looking for... in mint / fine condition? condition is irrelevant? That you need to also clearly define upfront, since price-wise thinks will change.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Faicuai

[ajlynx]

1 minute ago, Faicuai said:

Doc's answer is already setting you on the right path.

 

But it is important you clearly define what do you identify with, or what your interest / curiosity is, since all the titles you mentioned can. indeed, be played on both platforms.

 

It is what comes NEXT, after you get comfy. and interested on the HW possibilities where the differences will arise...

 

Also, it does depend (as well) of the condition / state of the HW you are looking for... in mint / fine condition? condition is irrelevant? That you need to also clearly define upfront, since price-wise thinks will change.

Honestly I was just looking for one that works and will let me play the games. i have no idea what will happen after I get comfy, so hard to gauge based on that ... :(. I'm not seeing anything mint being offered, so that's a bit moot. My main options right now are:

1) a tested & working 800XL & 1050,

2) a working 800 w/a few keyboard issues,

3) an 800XL & 2600 w/just controllers that doesn't specify whether it's tested, but says "used" for the condition

4) a bundle w/2 800XL, description says one is probably only good for parts and the other should work but is untested. This bundle also includes One 1050 Disk Drive, One 410 Cassette Tape Drive, One XM 301 Modem, One MPP 1000 Modem, One Touch Tablet, One CX852 Memory Module 8K RAM, Two Joysticks, Atari 800XL Cartridges are Assembler Editor, Qix, Pac Man, E.T. Phone Home, Smart Terminal, Atariartist, Atari 2600 games are Combat, Starship, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Missile Command, Space Invaders, Video Pinball, Adventure, Flag Capture, Various cables, power supplies (pictured)

 

Which one would you go for if you were a newbie w/zero confidence in being able to make a machine work if it arrives not functioning? Though I am able to follow directions, so could probably learn if it's not too complicated and I had help, but don't want to be out hundreds of dollars and still not able to play my games.

[Faicuai]

13 minutes ago, ajlynx said:

Honestly I was just looking for one that works and will let me play the games. i have no idea what will happen after I get comfy, so hard to gauge based on that ... :(. I'm not seeing anything mint being offered, so that's a bit moot. My main options right now are:

1) a tested & working 800XL & 1050,

2) a working 800 w/a few keyboard issues,

3) an 800XL & 2600 w/just controllers that doesn't specify whether it's tested, but says "used" for the condition

4) a bundle w/2 800XL, description says one is probably only good for parts and the other should work but is untested. This bundle also includes One 1050 Disk Drive, One 410 Cassette Tape Drive, One XM 301 Modem, One MPP 1000 Modem, One Touch Tablet, One CX852 Memory Module 8K RAM, Two Joysticks, Atari 800XL Cartridges are Assembler Editor, Qix, Pac Man, E.T. Phone Home, Smart Terminal, Atariartist, Atari 2600 games are Combat, Starship, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Missile Command, Space Invaders, Video Pinball, Adventure, Flag Capture, Various cables, power supplies (pictured)

 

Which one would you go for if you were a newbie w/zero confidence in being able to make a machine work if it arrives not functioning? Though I am able to follow directions, so could probably learn if it's not too complicated and I had help, but don't want to be out hundreds of dollars and still not able to play my games.

Well, you certainly want a sure, worry-free path to start on the right foot... so the HW needs to work as intended.

 

Personally, I would advice you against piling-up HW an only buy what you really, really want or wished to have.

 

Having said that, #1 seems ok. #4 May have a chance if you are willing to open up / work on the machines inside, and cannibalize one of them, to get a working unit (in case anything is wrong), as long as you feel interested as well on the extra HW you see on that list.

 

If you ask for my personal advice, you should set for the machine your REALLY, REALLY like, and get it in the best possible condition that time / money permits. Go for QUALITY preferably over quantity. And if your wife is around, she will absolutely thank you for it.  

Edited April 18, 2020 by Faicuai

[ajlynx]

4 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

Well, you certainly want a sure, worry-free path to start on the right foot... so the HW needs to work as intended.

 

Personally, I would advice you against piling-up HW an only buy what you really, really want or wished to have.

 

Having said that, #1 seems ok. #4 May have a chance if you are willing to open up / work on the machines inside, and cannibalize one of them, to get a working unit (in case anything is wrong), as long as you feel interested as well on the extra HW you see on that list.

 

If you ask for my personal advice, you should set for the machine your REALLY, REALLY like, and get it in the best possible condition that time / money permits. Go for QUALITY preferably over quantity. And if your wife is around, she will absolutely thank you for it.  

Thanks, that's helpful - and good point about not piling up. This is probably when I should mention that I'm the wife  - my husband's much more into modern gaming systems than vintage ;p. I didn't think I was interested in all the modding and upgrading and cannibalizing to make systems work stuff, but the more time I spend reading all these descriptions of the extra memory already installed etc the more intrigued I'm becoming the idea of learning to make an atari do cool stuff and be able to play games using an SD card and all that ? - I may be acquiring a new hobby here in spite of myself...

[Faicuai]

12 minutes ago, ajlynx said:

Thanks, that's helpful - and good point about not piling up. This is probably when I should mention that I'm the wife  - my husband's much more into modern gaming systems than vintage ;p. I didn't think I was interested in all the modding and upgrading and cannibalizing to make systems work stuff, but the more time I spend reading all these descriptions of the extra memory already installed etc the more intrigued I'm becoming the idea of learning to make an atari do cool stuff and be able to play games using an SD card and all that ? - I may be acquiring a new hobby here in spite of myself...

LoOoOoL (!!!)

 

 

NEVER saw that pearl coming! So, yes, plenty of self-gratitude going that route, I guess...

 

The "collector's" dimension, even if not kicking immediately upfront, is to be considered (at least briefly). The reason is that you will be surprised to know that an 800XL is NOT made the same as... another 800XL. The model went through multiple manufacturing cycles, in several Asian locations, and parts-vendors... The mother-boards are not the same (socketed vs. socketed, existing or missing passive components, etc.) and, most importantly, the KEYBOARDS... there is one particularly desirable over most others, because of design and durability...

 

As for the life-cycle of the products, the 800XL was Atari's (late) response to compete against C64, while the 800 was more like the first-and-critical step into personal / home computing, having the Apple-II in mind as the main competitor. Therefore, the HW design and architecture is closer that what was seen back in those days (and regulation), where as the 800XL is more like C64's pruned-and-as-cost-effective-as-you could. 

 

Just some food for thought in case you become a bit more inquisitive...

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Faicuai

[spacecadet]

Easiest thing: buy a working 800XL and separately an SIO2SD. Honestly, actual disk drives are cool but it's a pain to have to get real disks these days and they also break really easily (both the drives and disks). The 1050 drive is also a humongous disk drive even by standards of the day (or maybe I'm just used to Apple disk drives) - it is as big as the 800XL itself, so to me it takes up an unacceptable amount of space when there is a much smaller and more flexible alternative.

 

If the only current listings available that look good include the 1050, then I guess you may as well get it, but I think you would pretty quickly want to replace the 1050 with an SIO2SD.

 

With an 800XL and SIO2SD, plus a standard Atari joystick, you can play probably 99.9% of all games released for the platform, and the vast majority you can just download and put on an SD card. (Some games are only on cartridge, but the cartridge slot is built in to the system so it's not an external thing.)

[ajlynx]

2 hours ago, spacecadet said:

Easiest thing: buy a working 800XL and separately an SIO2SD. Honestly, actual disk drives are cool but it's a pain to have to get real disks these days and they also break really easily (both the drives and disks). The 1050 drive is also a humongous disk drive even by standards of the day (or maybe I'm just used to Apple disk drives) - it is as big as the 800XL itself, so to me it takes up an unacceptable amount of space when there is a much smaller and more flexible alternative.

 

If the only current listings available that look good include the 1050, then I guess you may as well get it, but I think you would pretty quickly want to replace the 1050 with an SIO2SD.

 

With an 800XL and SIO2SD, plus a standard Atari joystick, you can play probably 99.9% of all games released for the platform, and the vast majority you can just download and put on an SD card. (Some games are only on cartridge, but the cartridge slot is built in to the system so it's not an external thing.)

Newbie here, remember? ? not sure what an SIO2SD is - is that what I need to be able to use an SD card? I haven't seen mention of that in any of the descriptions I'm looking at right now. The best options so far seem to be the 800XL & 1050, which comes with 2 controllers and all the cables and is potentially gonna cost me $325. Or I just found this one 

 

Atari 800XL Computer with the following upgrades:

Rambo 256K memory.

UAVS-Video/RCA composite Video Mod. 

New keyboard mylar installed.

Dual OS OmniView & Basic with selector switch.

It comes with 12ft S-Video cable and 12ft RCA Audio & Video Cable too.

 

I don't know enough to know what all those upgrades mean though - are they a good thing? Is this something that would be worth paying $280 for plus probably another $26 for a controller (since it doesn't come with any)? It does say the computer is in excellent condition and has been thoroughly cleaned, which seems like a good thing - as someone mentioned above, since I mostly want to play my games (at least to start with) it's a good idea to get one I know will work well.

 

Oh yeah, there's this one too - I'm including the whole description cause I'm not sure what most of it means:

Atari 800XL computer with video, OS, and memory upgrades. This computer has the UAV-D video upgrade. This upgrade bypasses the stock Atari video and provides a sharper image with brighter colors.  The Video output has Luma/Chroma connectors and a Composite video (video or CVBS) output. The computer also has the OmniviewXL/XE  80 column Operating System in addition to the standard Atari XL/XE operating system.  The OS is selected by using the channel select switch in the back of the computer.  The memory has been upgraded from 64K to 256K with the NEWELL 256KXL memory upgrade.  This memory upgrade also has a switch in the back that allows the user to switch from the Atari 130XE memory banking configuration to a configuration that matches the capabilities of the RAMBO and Wiztronics memory upgrades.  With the computer in the Omniview mode and the 130XE mode, the user can utilize a modified version of Atari Writer Plus in the 80 column mode.  Two of the screen shots show  this being utilized. The computer has all systems working.  The motherboard is fully socketed.  The combination of modifications on this computer is extremely rare.  This is only the 3rd computer that I have found that has the Newell upgrade.  This computer comes with a video cable and a HOMEBREW power supply.

 

Either way I'm going to have buy games - the "vintage" offer comes w/3 games but they're not the ones I'm jonesing for :).

Edited April 18, 2020 by ajlynx

[+bob1200xl]

You should talk to the guy on the "need something" thread. He can get you stuff. Cheap.

 

Bob

 

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, bob1200xl said:

You should talk to the guy on the "need something" thread. He can get you stuff. Cheap.

 

Bob

 

Word on the street is he's a pretty kick ass dude!

[spacecadet]

2 hours ago, ajlynx said:

Newbie here, remember? ? not sure what an SIO2SD is - is that what I need to be able to use an SD card?

Yes - it's just a little SD device that emulates a floppy drive. The computer thinks it's a regular floppy drive, but you can have thousands of games on it. They come up in auctions with the system every now and then, but you may need to buy one separately if you want the computer right now. They are both much more convenient but also much more cost effective than buying games on disk. And you're still playing the game on the actual computer; you're just loading it from SD.

 

Someone else will have to answer about those upgrades... I guess I never got into the system enough to do any of those. The standard composite output and 64K was always good enough for me. I can tell you that at least as far as the RAM goes, there probably aren't that many games that require more than 64K since that was the most common configuration of the Atari 8 bit line up until the end. I'm sure there are a few, though. My 800XL is totally stock, though, and I haven't personally come across anything it won't run. So whether the upgrades are worth it probably depends on how much those systems cost.

[ajlynx]

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

Word on the street is he's a pretty kick ass dude!

Do controllers count as "something" he can get or is that thread just for components when messing around inside the machines?

[Gunstar]

Atari's are great systems for collectors, hobbiests and those who want fun and nostalgia quick and easy. It depends on what you decide, ultimately what you want to do with it. As you said at first, you just have one or two, or 4 games that you feel nostalgia towards. All those games are available on cartridge that will work in any Atari 8-bit computer, stock or upgraded, so even a 400 or 600XL will work for that. They can all be upgraded, but the XL and XE lines are the ones with the most commonly available upgrades, 400/800 memory upgrades aren't available that are compatible beyond 48K unless you get an 800 and Incognito upgrade, which happens to be still available now, but when they are gone, it could be years or forever and then you have to rely on finding one for re-sale. XL/XE have PBI plug-and-play upgrades that take no electronics skills to use, as well as those that do take skills. 800 & Incognito also needs electronics skills. So how deep down the rabbit whole do you want to go? Hardware hacking, programming or just a user/collector? If you take the deep plunge, no matter if hardware hacking, programming or user/collector, you'll probably be finding yourself buying another model Atari 8-bit later anyway, to better fit your personal interest. If it's just a bit of nostalgia for a few classic games on cartridge, any working Atari 8-bit will do and just go for the best priced computer.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Gunstar

[Geister]

Replica Atari Controllers can be had pretty cheaply on Amazon.  I purchased two of them when I started getting back into Atari stuff.  The SIO2SD is a great addition that will eliminate the need to maintain fussy floppy drives and disks.  It is a box on the end of an SIO cable that plugs into the back of your Atari and the box has a display and buttons that let you navigate the SD card to load many games. 

 

But there is a home-brew option called the SIO2PC that lets you use freely available software, a USB or serial cable, and an interface board called an FTDI board that can be patch cabled to the SIO port of the Atari.  This allows you to load games from a Windows or Mac computer's hard disk to your PC.  The FTDI boards are available from Amazon and other vendors.

 

A third option is to buy a SIO2PC cable ready-made from various vendors. 

[+bob1200xl]

9 hours ago, ajlynx said:

Do controllers count as "something" he can get or is that thread just for components when messing around inside the machines?

I have 'many' used joysticks and a few new/re-built units. It all depends on what shows up when I look. You can ask around here about what is available as far as repairing them, or which joysticks are best.

 

It may be best to source them separately.

 

Bob

 

[ajlynx]

Do 2600 game cartridges work in the 800XL?

[Gibstov]

4 minutes ago, ajlynx said:

Do 2600 game cartridges work in the 800XL?

No.  But Sega Genesis controllers work if you can't find an Atari joystick.

[ajlynx]

5 minutes ago, Gibstov said:

No.  But Sega Genesis controllers work if you can't find an Atari joystick.

Interesting to know, thanks. There's an Atari joystick on eBay for about $26. And actually the 2600 I have right now has 2 controllers, but I'm not sure they work. When I turned on the system I got a picture on screen of a game seeming to happen, but the controllers didn't do anything - not sure whether it was controller error or user error ;p. Was also considering checking the "need something" thread to find out if that's a better way to source controllers.