2020 Sega Saturn options:ODE/MODE/Satiator/Fenrir/Rhea/Phoebe/OTHERS?

[Greg2600]

One other bit of comparison is storage medium.  MODE offers SATA drives, and you can easily get a 2TB that would fit every Saturn game for every region you'd ever find.  Currently they don't have an option for copying to/from the microSD and HDD though.  Fenrir is MicroSD, while Satiator is last I checked, standard size SD.  I've found that microSD are more expensive and have fewer options than the full sized SD cards, so Satiator gets the nod there.  However, as you get up near the newest, 1TB cards, the micros are cheaper, ha ha.  However, at 1TB, an internal SATA drive is 1/2 the price or less than the SD options, and you don't have to worry about the card becoming corrupted.  Frankly, besides using text menus, my biggest peeve with ODE's for the disc systems is storage medium.  I know in the case of PSIO, and even some of the Everdrive carts, I've had to reformat a card several times and recopy the roms which takes all day!

[seastalker]

My Saturn has an issue with the 'door open' screen.  I've opened the saturn, tried putting a clip on the internal switch that controls it, bent the metal leg to adjust it, but have yet to make a permanent final fix.  Do any of the ODE options just automatically bypass this 'door open' screen so I won't need to worry about it? 

[DJ Clae]

Your mileage may vary, but those store brand CDRs are highly suspect for use in consoles. They tend to wear down the lens faster, and can cause read errors. You want Taiyo Yuden lacquer CDRs burnt at the slowest speed possible (to insure there's no variance in the burn speed).

 

Although you could argue damaging the lens is a moot point if the eventual alternative is removing the drive assembly for an ODE anyway.

 

Edit: I'm replying to an old post from the bottom of the first page apparently.

Edited June 26, 2020 by DJ Clae

[+-^CrossBow^-]

5 hours ago, seastalker said:

My Saturn has an issue with the 'door open' screen.  I've opened the saturn, tried putting a clip on the internal switch that controls it, bent the metal leg to adjust it, but have yet to make a permanent final fix.  Do any of the ODE options just automatically bypass this 'door open' screen so I won't need to worry about it? 

Easier way to bypass such switches is to bridge the points of the switch in some way. As an example, many of the printers I used to service in the point of sale industry 20 years ago had paper detect switches on them. Once the paper got to a low level, it would pause printing and warn you about this. But when these switches would go bad, they wouldn't print at all thinking there was never any paper in the printer. Well, these switches were damn near impossible to get to and replace inside the printer. So we just cut the two wires that went to the switch and spliced them together with a bit of solder and insulation tape. Doing that the printer always through it had paper in it. Sure, when they ran out it wouldn't warn them anymore, but we never got a service call about a printer not telling them they were out of paper vs all the calls we had from flakey switches that were preventing the printer from working.

 

My point being I'm sure you can do something similar to the saturn CD door detect switch. However, I don't know what impact doing this might have on games that game on multiple discs?

 

[c0op3r]

I am not sure if other have seen it but today Prof Abrasive posted an update I will link to the Bob at RGB post.

 

He basically talks about how they are just now making the first 100 units and how slow things are going, STILL NO PRICE POINT.

 

With that post and with my TerraOnion MODE order shipping I pulled the plug on my Patreon support for Prof. Abrasive, I dont see the point of supporting any longer  

[Greg2600]

I saw the Patreon post, and that's the first I've seen of the box, ooph.  The price at this point is meh, I'm more interested to know whether his California partners will be able to produce these in sufficient volume.  I'm totally expecting more updates about this snafu or that one in the factory, further and further delaying. 

[c0op3r]

I am sure it exist, but I am not in that business - Someone needs to create a 'clearing house' if you will for all this small builders of the retro gaming seen add ons.

 

Most of these guys are brilliant in what they make, examples:

 

GBA Consolizer - amazing product an absolute shit distribution system
Dan Kunz - another one that makes great stuff but good luck getting it

and

Obviously Prof Abrasive

 

They are brilliant at making the stuff absolute trash at handling the business side, someone needs to be a partner for these guys that actually pays for a quantity of the devices to be made (not the 10, 25 50 and 100) they are producing now and then a yr later making more. have the stock available and ready to go and pay these guy a commission on each unit sold. All of these guys are terrible at the business side of things, they need to accept that fact and take there hands off the wheel and let someone else handle that, they would have less headache and maybe even make more money.

 

[seastalker]

On 6/26/2020 at 9:32 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

Easier way to bypass such switches is to bridge the points of the switch in some way. 

My point being I'm sure you can do something similar to the saturn CD door detect switch. However, I don't know what impact doing this might have on games that game on multiple discs?

 

That is a route I may take if I can't get something working. If anyone discovers their chosen ODE option bypasses this switch (or has a built-in one of their own for multi-disc games, please do update this space at that time. Thank you.

[Austin]

On 6/26/2020 at 9:24 AM, DJ Clae said:

Your mileage may vary, but those store brand CDRs are highly suspect for use in consoles. They tend to wear down the lens faster, and can cause read errors. You want Taiyo Yuden lacquer CDRs burnt at the slowest speed possible (to insure there's no variance in the burn speed).

I don't know how valid the "CDrs will damage your consoles" thing is. Has anyone ever tested this to confirm if it's simply a long running myth? Some people swear by it, but others have been running CDrs for as long as they can remember and their lasers are still kicking just fine.

 

I do agree though that the type of disc matters. I've had plenty of consoles that simply will not take cheap ones you've been able to buy at big-box retailers, such as Verbatim, Memorex or Philips. My Dreamcast and CD-i in particular do not like them at all. I recently switched to Taiyo Yudens and now both of those systems are reading them without issue.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Austin

[Sho]

I am fairly noob at Sega Saturn.  So I have a question

 

I'm interested in what else would be needed for MODE aside from a HDD/SSD?  Anything else?  Just picked a model 2 up that I'll be using.

[Steven Pendleton]

19 minutes ago, Sho said:

I am fairly noob at Sega Saturn.  So I have a question

 

I'm interested in what else would be needed for MODE aside from a HDD/SSD?  Anything else?  Just picked a model 2 up that I'll be using.

https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1659

 

Looks like this will be updated with Saturn eventually.

[Sho]

4 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1659

 

Looks like this will be updated with Saturn eventually.

Awesome!

[c0op3r]

5 hours ago, Sho said:

I am fairly noob at Sega Saturn.  So I have a question

 

I'm interested in what else would be needed for MODE aside from a HDD/SSD?  Anything else?  Just picked a model 2 up that I'll be using.

That should be all you need is the Saturn, MODE and HD / SSD.  you might want the option 3D printed mounts that will appear but they are not required.

[DJ Clae]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:42 PM, Austin said:

I don't know how valid the "CDrs will damage your consoles" thing is. Has anyone ever tested this to confirm if it's simply a long running myth? Some people swear by it, but others have been running CDrs for as long as they can remember and their lasers are still kicking just fine.

 

I do agree though that the type of disc matters. I've had plenty of consoles that simply will not take cheap ones you've been able to buy at big-box retailers, such as Verbatim, Memorex or Philips. My Dreamcast and CD-i in particular do not like them at all. I recently switched to Taiyo Yudens and now both of those systems are reading them without issue.

That's a valid point because it would be hard to prove or disprove that CDRs damage the console. For all we know, the Taiyo Yuden ones are just as bad.

 

However, what I do know is that some consoles have more difficulty reading the cheap ones. My Turbo Duo in particular skips and has loading errors, especially when playing tracks in the latter portion of the disc.

[+Black_Tiger]

It's been proven over the decades that playing authentic or cdr game discs wears out your hardware. So does not using it at all. There's nothing you can do to prevent some aspect to eventually breakdown.

 

But our lives are very short and what's the point of games and consoles if we don't play them? We don't need 200 year lifespans for repairable hardware.

[newtmonkey]

I suddenly realized I had a 20-pin Saturn in storage, so I ordered the Fenrir a short while ago and received it last weekend.  Unfortunately, after installing the Fenrir I remembered why the 20-pin Saturn was in storage: it was defective and the I couldn't get a picture out of it!

 

A few days later I had another 20-pin Saturn on my hands, ordered through Yahoo Auctions, and installed the Fenrir.  Working great!  There's a very short list of games that won't work (mostly because Fenrir doesn't allow "disc" swapping), but every game I have (or that I would want to play) works fine.  Very nice ODE solution that's much easier to get than other options while also being quite reasonable in cost.  Highly recommended!

[Greg2600]

https://www.retrorgb.com/satiator-price-availability-revealed.html

 

Satiator seems to be pricing in at $260 ($15 discount for Patrons).  Yeesh!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

2 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

https://www.retrorgb.com/satiator-price-availability-revealed.html

 

Satiator seems to be pricing in at $260 ($15 discount for Patrons).  Yeesh!

I'm more glad than ever that I got a MODE for my DC and will now with the cost this has been announced for I'm pretty sure I would see another MODE in my future for my other Saturn. The MODE...just works and is crazy easy to install. It is more difficult to remove the old GDROM or CDRom drive from the systems than it is to install the MODE. 

 

I did have one issue where I wanted to to use the Option pad to control disc swapping with my MODE through my DCHDMI (DCDIGITAL) but I couldn't get it working at first. I finally got that going but didn't find the instructions to be that clear on what was needed configuration wise so I will summarize here for any that might have this similar setup on the Dreamcast and want to go about using the Option pad for controller your MODE.

 

You have to of course solder a wire physically to the OPT pad on the DCDigital output board. There is also a very small dipswitch with only 2 switches on it. Switch 1 needs to be in the ON position. This enables the OPT pad for use I believe. Then, the other end of the wire needs to be connected to Pin 2 on the MODE's large JST connector. That is a connection for Switch 1 / 2 on the MODE to remotely activate them. Now once I had done all of this I had the issue in that with that wire attached, the MODE was no longer being seen by the DC and it would just go to the maintenance screen for accessing the VMU...etc.

 

Well, it turns out that you have to change a setting on the DCDigital itself and that setting isn't available through the on screen options on the DCDigital. You can only access it by logging into the DCDigital actual HTML internal configuration that I honestly didn't even know it had! So assuming your DCDigital is on your local network in your home, you just open a browser and browse to the IP address that your DCDigital is using. The login by default on mine was dchdmi, but might be dcdigital on newer boards. Anyway, the password is masked initially and you have to go to the wifi settings through the OSD on the DCDigital and press Y on the controller on the password option and it will then display the current password the DCDigital is using. (The password is random each time the DCDigital is powered on/off for security reasons). Once you have logged into the DCDigital's internal HTML configuration you just use the command Help to see all the options you can access. One of them is the Reset function and this has to be changed to the option labeled as MODE. Once I did this, the MODE and the DC in general are working as expected with the wire attached now.

 

So naturally to have this function, you have to update your DCHdmi or DCDigital to the latest firmware so that the MODE support is added to it in the first place as originally this OPT pad was designed to the work with the GDEmu and clones. 

 

Anyway, aside from that little snafu the MODE has been excellent and I've got only half the space taken up with images of just my personal DC collection loaded up on a 250Gb SSD. 

 

[Austin]

16 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

https://www.retrorgb.com/satiator-price-availability-revealed.html

 

Satiator seems to be pricing in at $260 ($15 discount for Patrons).  Yeesh!

Yeah, the price isn't great. However, Abrasive put out another update today indicating that there will be larger discounts based on how long you have supported on Patreon, so some people will get bigger discounts. I checked mine and it looks like I'll get about $27 off as opposed to the initial $15. I think a lot of people will still be bailing out. I've been supporting this thing since the beginning and I've held off on every other ODE, so I'm going through with it. Despite it still costing more than a MODE for me, I think the convenience and flexibility of it will be worth it to me in the end. Beta testers have indicated the thing is solid at the moment, with a few updates Abrasive will be looking to make in the near future. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Austin

[Greg2600]

There's still questions on some of the features, and he needs a new menu.  The guy who does Pseudo Saturn Kai was supposed to port that over but has not had the time.  MODE-wise I want it for the Dreamcast, but I too (not a Patreon) will likely drop the dough for the Satiator.  I have the PSIO, ED64, (hopefully get to buy the JagGD), and I feel like this device is on par with those from the same generation.  One of the first SD-flash carts made in the USA, ha ha.

[playstays_shun]

though I think its cool he offered something, stating 70% of people only pay $1/mo is kinda saying the problem is overblown

 

Also, he is responsible for communication but makes it sound like how he can't even produce more than 50 without needing sales to come in, that there is some room for interpretation that maybe it will get even cheaper down the line with economies of scale?

 

I've been perfectly happy with my Phoebe I got a year ago but I guess some response to the backlash is better than none at all 

 

Still the hype for this project kinda fizzled for me. If it was $100 cheaper I'd be tempted to get a 'This is cool' Saturn down the line and outfit it with one of these 

 

And though this is the only plug and play ODE for Saturn, the market is still crowded and lots of people don't mind swapping out their dying or dead disc drives 

Edited August 19, 2020 by playstays_shun

[Greg2600]

It costs money to get something into factory production, that's really the key.  He never did a kickstarter, and what he collected from Patreon (he saved it all) was not enough.  He'd be forced to do small batch after small batch.  I truly am tired of the Patreon supporters complaining.  It's not Kickstarter, they were donating to the cause.  I myself did not do Patreon for exactly this reason, because I knew there was no promise of something in the end.

 

Quote

I'll do a bit of a FAQ on this announcement in the coming days, but in the mean time, some exposition. Exact costs aside, the markup is needed in part to cover the production ramp. I've diligently saved every dollar from Patreon - separate bank accounts and everything - and it's not nearly enough to make a big batch. Right now I'm putting in orders for the longer lead time items, and then I need sales to buy parts, sort out manufacture, pay the logistics people... If the Satiators were priced at cost, I'd be stuck doing them in series, and it'd take 6 months to a year to cover the Patreon orders. As it is I am looking at dipping into my personal savings to complete the next batch promptly.

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Greg2600

[ClassicGMR]

The MODE is absolutely simple to install and it just works. No solder, no modification, easy to follow install instructions, good price, choice of hardware to run with it, doesn't require a specific model console to install into... My Saturn just took it and ran.

 

The only issue I had with it was on my end - my console has a bad slave CPU but I have a tested replacement console on the way. I expect to be running Saturn games by Tuesday.

[seastalker]

So here we are in August 2020 and my OP needs updating. The Rhea/Phoebe is out for me. That leaves the modern trio: Nothing against the Satiator nor its creator, but I can't justify the price regardless... in MY situation I am ONLY going to play from storage.  (Kudos to the Satiator's package and artwork looking cool though). That leaves me with two current options:

 

MODE vs. Fenrir.

 

The Fenrir is half the price of the MODE, so that is a huge plus, and if my Saturn is not compatible with the Fenrir, I can get one that is. However, if both devices were equal in price, regardless of what price, what does the Fenrir have over the MODE and vice versa? I don't want my love of the MegaSD to interfere with "what is" vs. what should be. I will probably use a 256gGB SD on either device I choose, so the MODE's ability to load from SSD/SATA hard drives doesn't factor in.

 

A side by side comparison video would be great if anyone has done this?

 

Also, for those with my scenario in regards to DREAMCAST: I have a GDEMU clone. Does an upgrade to the MODE make sense if selling off the clone GDEMU? MODE supports artwork but the navigation is slow and hopefully will get a firmware update. Is there reason to dump the GDEMU and or clone?

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by seastalker

[schnuth]

After getting the MODE for my Saturn I grabbed one for Dreamcast. I have a GDEMU clone as well, but being able to have everything ever on a HDD is pretty amazing. I’m not a fan of the artwork mode and prefer the list. It’s a great piece of hardware that’s easy to install granted to know how to use a screwdriver.