2020 Sega Saturn options:ODE/MODE/Satiator/Fenrir/Rhea/Phoebe/OTHERS?

[newtmonkey]

@seastalker

The Fenrir doesn't really offer anything over the MODE other than price and availability.  It doesn't support in-game disc swapping, so there is a handful of games that are "compatible" but you wouldn't be able to play after the first disc.  Most multi-disc Saturn games have you save your progress during disc swapping, so they would work fine on the Fenrir.

 

Here's a compatibility list.  The only multi-disc games that aren't supported and are worthwhile (imo) are Lunar 2, Soul Hackers, and Tengai Makyo IV (not listed on this list for some reason).

https://8bitmods.com/blog/fenrir-compatibility-list-redump/

[Videodr0me]

On 8/21/2020 at 7:09 AM, newtmonkey said:

@seastalker

The Fenrir doesn't really offer anything over the MODE other than price and availability.  It doesn't support in-game disc swapping, so there is a handful of games that are "compatible" but you wouldn't be able to play after the first disc.  Most multi-disc Saturn games have you save your progress during disc swapping, so they would work fine on the Fenrir.

 

Here's a compatibility list.  The only multi-disc games that aren't supported and are worthwhile (imo) are Lunar 2, Soul Hackers, and Tengai Makyo IV (not listed on this list for some reason).

https://8bitmods.com/blog/fenrir-compatibility-list-redump/

I actually think that the Fenrir has the most potential (over the MODE, RHEA/PHOEBE and the Satiator). Currently features (especially multi-disc swap) are lacking, but the firmware is in its infacy. The reason why i think that the Fenrir might become superior to the other solutions in the future is its inbuild WLAN. Currently its not used by the firmware but when enabled it will allow to swap-disc remotely and even copying files to the sd card over WLAN. Lets hope that feature materializes soon, then i think its a no-brainer.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I think the MODE's main advantage is the fact that you can use different media types and the fact that it seems to work with pretty much all known image types. The different media is the big bonus here because it is currently cheaper to get smaller sized SSDs than it is SD cards of the same capacity. The MODE will also support both the SD slot and the SATA at the same time. So you can load up stuff on both and use both. The MODE doesn't currently give you the option to swap files between them but it wouldn't surprise if that were to happen soon and that would make it much easier to add and move stuff around if you do have a HDD installed. 

 

For me the MODE ticks all the boxes I would need and was looking for and I've been quite happy purchasing it.

 

[Greg2600]

https://www.patreon.com/posts/faq-40787196

Long form FAQ posted yesterday.

• supports images in BIN/CUE format (single- and multi-BIN), and ISO files.  It supports on-the-fly region patching of games, so you don't need to modify your games to play them out of region.
• acts as a "system disc", allowing you to boot CD-Rs, if for some reason you really want to do that.
• compatible with both RAM carts and the backup save cartridge.
• unaffected by 50/60 Hz switches, and by modchips.
  

Coming features.

• Saturns with BIOS 1.00, booting into the Satiator menu requires opening and closing the CD drive lid.  I already have a fix for this and it just needs a little bit of integration work.
• will be a save manager integrated to the menu, so that you can transfer game saves from the Saturn's memory to the SD card and vice versa. This will also work for the backup cartridge, if you have one.
• Multi-disc games will be supported.  Opening and closing the Saturn's real drive lid will be used to indicate to the Satiator that you want to switch discs.
• AR not supported AS IS, but AR also stores its firmware on Flash chips - it can be reprogrammed at will.  So my plan here is to develop an alternative firmware for the AR to embrace the Satiator.  This is actually an opportunity disguised as a problem: there are a number of cool features which can be implemented once you have a little bit of storage in the cart slot.  This will be open source, however it eventuates.  In the mean time, it's possible to use an AR as a RAM cartridge by flashing it with an empty firmware - which is what I run on my development system.
  

Compatibility spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NsgnKeMwA-ATlyKZfL3R44d8E_O9sFlWdXSnltFkE_A/edit?usp=sharing

[Austin]

It begins!

 

 

[Greg2600]

Stone Age Gamer MODE Preorders live at NOON Today.

 

https://stoneagegamer.com/terraonion-mode-dreamcast-saturn-ode.html

 

 

[Austin]

All right, I've been playing around with the Satiator for a couple of days now. Overall it works quite well. Menu is basic, but navigates very quickly. Games load right away.

 

I did find you really need to use the Redump set however, as that's what it was tested with in beta. I had some old ISOs from a long time ago and pretty much none of them worked, so I had to track down the Redump ones and they seem fine for the few dozen games I've tested so far.

 

As more of these ship out (he's currently working on the next 35 or so orders) I suspect there will be further firmware updates fixing various quirks and making things more streamlined. For instance, at this moment you have to power off and back on to switch to a new game, but it sounds like Abrasive is aiming to have a better game changing implementation in the future. There's currently a third-party save game manager you can load, but it sounds like he'll probably implement one into the Satiator menu in the future as well.

[zetastrike]

3 hours ago, Austin said:

All right, I've been playing around with the Satiator for a couple of days now. Overall it works quite well. Menu is basic, but navigates very quickly. Games load right away.

 

I did find you really need to use the Redump set however, as that's what it was tested with in beta. I had some old ISOs from a long time ago and pretty much none of them worked, so I had to track down the Redump ones and they seem fine for the few dozen games I've tested so far.

 

As more of these ship out (he's currently working on the next 35 or so orders) I suspect there will be further firmware updates fixing various quirks and making things more streamlined. For instance, at this moment you have to power off and back on to switch to a new game, but it sounds like Abrasive is aiming to have a better game changing implementation in the future. There's currently a third-party save game manager you can load, but it sounds like he'll probably implement one into the Satiator menu in the future as well.

 

Have you tried ripping any of your own Saturn game discs to see if they work?  Having to hunt down and download ISOs of games I already own would be a pain.

[Austin]

2 hours ago, zetastrike said:

 

Have you tried ripping any of your own Saturn game discs to see if they work?  Having to hunt down and download ISOs of games I already own would be a pain.

Yes, I ripped two games the night I got it. They worked perfectly.

[Greg2600]

@Austin appreciate the update.  Ugh power cycling to go back to the menu?  Also not sure why the heck orders are so slow to go out?  I'm on the Satiator Discord though I don't really follow it that closely, and yes someone put up a Redump link and I pulled that down.  MODE is tested on Redump as well, and you really have to go that route because attempting to get a device to comply without some type of standard format would be maddening. 

[Austin]

21 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

@Austin appreciate the update.  Ugh power cycling to go back to the menu?  Also not sure why the heck orders are so slow to go out? 

It's to my understanding he's taking the first 100 slow to ensure there aren't any major defects or manufacturing issues. Afterwards, he's going to be doing a batch of 1,000. Better to be safe than to have a ton of returns on a large run.

 

Regarding the lack of a soft reset, that should be temporary. It sounds like he's going to implement a better game changing option via a firmware update later. It's still Beta firmware at the moment. All things considered, the device is pretty solid and highly compatible right out of the gate without any major updates yet.

[newtmonkey]

A new firmware was released for the fenrir ODE today:

https://www.fenrir-ode.fr/firmware.html

 

Release notes:

• Loader embedded in firmware
• Up to 2499 games listed
• Return to loader (A+B+C+Start)
• Various bug fixes

 

I tested it just a bit earlier and verified "return to loader" works.  You just hold the button combo down to go back to the current game's title screen, then press the button combo to go to the Saturn's "launch disc" screen, wait for the system to recognize the "CD" in the drive, launch the "CD" and then it brings you back to the Fenrir menu.

 

I am wondering if, besides being very convenient, the "return to loader" feature is meant to lay the groundwork for swapping discs in-game at some point.

Edited September 23, 2020 by newtmonkey

[zetastrike]

5 hours ago, newtmonkey said:

A new firmware was released for the fenrir ODE today:

https://www.fenrir-ode.fr/firmware.html

 

Release notes:

• Loader embedded in firmware
• Up to 2499 games listed
• Return to loader (A+B+C+Start)
• Various bug fixes

 

I tested it just a bit earlier and verified "return to loader" works.  You just hold the button combo down to go back to the current game's title screen, then press the button combo to go to the Saturn's "launch disc" screen, wait for the system to recognize the "CD" in the drive, launch the "CD" and then it brings you back to the Fenrir menu.

 

I am wondering if, besides being very convenient, the "return to loader" feature is meant to lay the groundwork for swapping discs in-game at some point.

And with that, the Rhea/Phoebe lost it's only advantage over the Fenrir.  I can't wait for the wifi to be enabled.

[NinjaWarrior]

I always like to be Monthy Payments, like Layaway

 

I should of asked about the Satiator 

[seastalker]

Question about the MODE. However unlikely, if the Sega Saturn has the same two RISC chips as the 32x, what are the technical hurdles of 32x game support on the MODE when used on a Saturn? Of course, some of us wish the Saturn's cartridge slot would have been backwards compatible with the 32x and genesis (and therefore Master System), but if one were to look at FPGA options for a 32x core, if the Saturn already has SOME of the 32x hardware, what a dream it would be to have even patched 32x roms to run as Saturn games on a MODE, or just plain old support for 32x titles. What an advantage an ODE maker would have over the other options! 

[zetastrike]

4 hours ago, seastalker said:

Question about the MODE. However unlikely, if the Sega Saturn has the same two RISC chips as the 32x, what are the technical hurdles of 32x game support on the MODE when used on a Saturn? Of course, some of us wish the Saturn's cartridge slot would have been backwards compatible with the 32x and genesis (and therefore Master System), but if one were to look at FPGA options for a 32x core, if the Saturn already has SOME of the 32x hardware, what a dream it would be to have even patched 32x roms to run as Saturn games on a MODE, or just plain old support for 32x titles. What an advantage an ODE maker would have over the other options! 

The 32X and Saturn hardware are nothing alike.  All the 32X is are the two CPUs, a framebuffer, and some RAM + the Genesis underneath it.  The Saturn is the Saturn.  Not to mention that 32X emulation (via software or FPGA) requires the mixing of the Genesis video signal with the 32X's, so you'd need to have a Genesis core on the MODE as well.  It's not a reasonable or feasible ask.

[Austin]

18 hours ago, seastalker said:

Question about the MODE. However unlikely, if the Sega Saturn has the same two RISC chips as the 32x, what are the technical hurdles of 32x game support on the MODE when used on a Saturn? Of course, some of us wish the Saturn's cartridge slot would have been backwards compatible with the 32x and genesis (and therefore Master System), but if one were to look at FPGA options for a 32x core, if the Saturn already has SOME of the 32x hardware, what a dream it would be to have even patched 32x roms to run as Saturn games on a MODE, or just plain old support for 32x titles. What an advantage an ODE maker would have over the other options! 

There is zero chance. You have to remember that the 32X didn't handle everything--many (if not all) games used the Genesis hardware in conjunction with it. Without the Genesis side of the equation, you have no 32X games.

[NinjaWarrior]

How much cheaper is the Pseudo Saturn Kai Cart

 

Like I said I'm on a tight budget, I have UniROM flashed on my Broken GS Pro on the Playstation to run Back-up's 

[seastalker]

I ordered a MODE for the Saturn and am waiting on it. I am very excited about the disc lid bypass (I de-soldered my finicky one to clean and rework but end result hasn't occurred yet). I just re-capped my Saturn and was looking into currently available mods but reading the online MODE manual seems to have most available mods covered:

 

It seems the features of a modchip, Switch between 50/60Hz Mod (advanced MODE instructions) and Region-free features are all covered.  MAYBE it will have game save in a future firmware but I have a 4M cart which should probably be fine.  I have a Retrovision adapter and Genesis 2 cable for Component output. I guess all that's left (besides game saves) for the Saturn is an HDMI mod.

 

 

[Greg2600]

On 9/29/2020 at 10:28 PM, NinjaWarrior said:

How much cheaper is the Pseudo Saturn Kai Cart

 

Like I said I'm on a tight budget, I have UniROM flashed on my Broken GS Pro on the Playstation to run Back-up's 

https://www.patreon.com/cafealpha

 

There is a NEW Pseudo Kai on the way, though that's just the software.  That guy reviewed a lot of the carts available a few years ago. 

 

https://ppcenter.webou.net/devblog/article120/various-pseudo-saturn-cartridges

[seastalker]

MODE's support for playstation really adds value to the device. It is a shame they couldn't design it to provide some way to swap between systems without opening the case and stressing flex cables, etc.  The MODE a two part unit would be interesting like an installed base inside the system and a swap-able top portion.  Still, multi-system functionality is fantastic and will be great if other systems get supported. I haven't checked the case size and fit, but 3DO and CD-I could use some love.

[seastalker]

I'm getting my drive ready for my MODE and am going through old files. I'm replacing my Darksoft copies with REDUMP ones.  I had a game on a list that I doubt actually exists.  It is called with this identifier number:

 

145 - NHL Break-Away '96

 

Am I correct in thinking the author of the list (Darksoft maybe?) intended "NHL Powerplay '96" instead? I cannot find the listed title online.

[Greg2600]

Email from Stone Age Gamer stated that Terra Onion is finally beginning to ship the MODE orders to them, in a few batches.  I guess they'll be able to fill pre-orders in the next 2-3 weeks. 

[zetastrike]

Fenrir now allows exporting the internal memory to the SD card!

 

https://www.fenrir-ode.fr/firmware.html#download

[seastalker]

Just got my MODE and it is AWESOME! Only tried it on Saturn because I have a GDemu. Is there an up to date complete list of Japanese exclusive Sega Saturn games that English-only speakers can still play?