are we really sure the Intellivision only sold 3 million

[+cvga]

5 hours ago, spacecadet said:

I just don't know what significance that has. I guess someone could change the Wikipedia article to 4 million and link to the Tommy Tallarico post, but beyond that, I mean this is not a sea-change in the thinking of how popular the Intellivision was. It sold less than the Dreamcast, Saturn and Wii U, all systems considered failures, *way* less than the Atari 2600, which had a major head start, but probably more than the ColecoVision and definitely more than the Atari 5200, its two main competitors at the time.

I agree with all of that but don't consider the Intellivision or the Colecovision a failure (noted that you didn't say they were either). I think the criteria to be considered a success or failure was very different in the early 80s compared to when the other consoles were released.

[spacecadet]

28 minutes ago, cvga said:

I agree with all of that but don't consider the Intellivision or the Colecovision a failure (noted that you didn't say they were either). I think the criteria to be considered a success or failure was very different in the early 80s compared to when the other consoles were released.

I don't really consider them either successes or failures... I consider them both victims of and contributors to the crash of 1983. It's tough to really be definitive about them.

 

The one thing we do know is that the Atari 2600 sold 30 million units over its run. And most of those were probably in the 1977-1983 pre-crash period - I doubt it sold all that many units either during the crash or afterwards, when it was 8+ years old. So that's the benchmark to compare a "successful" pre-crash system to. Would *any* of the other systems on sale in 1982-83 come close to that number if the crash hadn't happened? I kinda doubt it. The Intellivision was already on its cost-cutting first revision (the Intellivision II) with an all-new Intellivision III on the drawing board. Crash or not, it was in its twilight years at around 3 1/2 million units. It obviously would have sold more if the crash hadn't happened, but it would have never approached the 2600's numbers.

 

The benchmark for success in game consoles hasn't really changed all that much since then. The PS4, for example, has sold around 30 million units in the US. (Almost all of the 2600's sales were in the US.) The NES sold 34 million units in the US. The #1 selling game console of all time, the PlayStation 2, sold 55 million units in the US. But factoring in population growth, that's not far off the same number. (The population grew by about 1/3 in that time.) The most successful consoles always seem to sell to about 15-20% of the population, or about half of all households.

 

The Intellivision just wasn't close to that, no matter how you look at it. I'm an original Intellivision owner and I still have three of them, but you've gotta be realistic. 3 million vs. 4 million sold... I mean, it doesn't matter.

[mr_me]

4 hours ago, spacecadet said:

The one thing we do know is that the Atari 2600 sold 30 million units over its run. And most of those were probably in the 1977-1983 pre-crash period - I doubt it sold all that many units either during the crash or afterwards, when it was 8+ years old. So that's the benchmark to compare a "successful" pre-crash system to. Would *any* of the other systems on sale in 1982-83 come close to that number if the crash hadn't happened? I kinda doubt it. The Intellivision was already on its cost-cutting first revision (the Intellivision II) with an all-new Intellivision III on the drawing board. Crash or not, it was in its twilight years at around 3 1/2 million units. It obviously would have sold more if the crash hadn't happened, but it would have never approached the 2600's numbers.

The atari 2600 had about 10M units sold by 1982.  Not sure what the 1983 numbers are but like intellivision it was discounted to a budget system.   So it definitely sold a significant number of units after the crash.  I don't think you can compare sales with later generations because these things were very expensive when they were popular.  In today's dollars about us$900 with cartridges over us$100.  Household penetration rates by 1982 in the US were about 11% and 2.5% respectively; a remarkable number for the 2600. If the crash hadn't happened Mattel would have had a couple of replacement systems, one possibly as early as 1983.  So either way it would have seen less promotion.  But I think it might have seen better distribution under Mattel than INTV through the later 1980s.

 

You can't say the total number of sales is significant or not until you know what that number is.  Whether it's 4M or 5M it still represents at least a 33% increase of what's otherwise understood.  Whatever the number is, it doesn't change the significance of the intellivision but that wasn't the question.

[rietveld]

I have 4 to add to the list

 

Intellivision master system 

Intellivision II

Intellivision III

Tandyvision 1 

[Intymike]

On 4/22/2020 at 6:58 AM, spacecadet said:

Almost all of the 2600's sales were in the US

 

The VCS was a worldwide success. It had a market share of 80% in Germany.

[squirrelgotdead]

I have to believe the numbers are accurate, considering the news sources that published those numbers, in that era. Those sales numbers likely came directly from Mattel's annual reports and corporate conference calls-the old fashioned way of business reporting. If they sold 750K units in 1983, it's not hard to imagine that they exceeded 3M between 1980-83 alone, not including 1978 or 1979.

[Tommy Tallarico]

On 4/21/2020 at 2:50 AM, mr_me said:

Anyone who quotes the nytimes article should say more than 3M intellivisions sold through 1983.  So I don't think that included the remaining inventory of intellivision ii that went to intellivision inc and sold in 1984.  I estimate that INTV Corp made and sold at least half a million INTV System III and Super Pro Intellivisions between 1985 and 1990.  And then there's an unknown number of digiplay intellivisions, many of which sold after 1983.  The total could be more than 4M.

Agreed.  In going all of the information we have (and don't have, but know happened)... I would definitely say the number is closer to (if not more) than 4 million. 

[Tommy Tallarico]

On 4/21/2020 at 9:15 PM, cvga said:

I agree with all of that but don't consider the Intellivision or the Colecovision a failure (noted that you didn't say they were either). I think the criteria to be considered a success or failure was very different in the early 80s compared to when the other consoles were released.

 

Agreed!   Intellivision owned 20% of the home video game market in the early 80's (some even go as high as 25%, but I always take the more conservative number).

 

But as we all know (who were around and playing back then)... everyone KNEW about Intellivision and more than likely were playing one over a friends or cousins/uncle/aunt's house at some point.  It was super expensive as we all know and I didn't know a single person who had BOTH Atari & Intellivision.  Very different from what the industry and economy is like today.

 

 

[+fdr4prez]

48 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

I didn't know a single person who had BOTH Atari & Intellivision

I had the Intellivision, and my buddy across the street had the Atari, so no need for me to have both.

 

Eventually I got the System Changer, and a cheap 2600, but that wasn't until towards the end.

[+cvga]

2 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

Agreed!   Intellivision owned 20% of the home video game market in the early 80's (some even go as high as 25%, but I always take the more conservative number).

 

But as we all know (who were around and playing back then)... everyone KNEW about Intellivision and more than likely were playing one over a friends or cousins/uncle/aunt's house at some point.  It was super expensive as we all know and I didn't know a single person who had BOTH Atari & Intellivision.  Very different from what the industry and economy is like today.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, fdr4prez said:

I had the Intellivision, and my buddy across the street had the Atari, so no need for me to have both.

 

Eventually I got the System Changer, and a cheap 2600, but that wasn't until towards the end.

 

I had an Atari and my best friend had an Intellivision. I was always at his house so it was like I had both systems

[IMBerzerk]

4 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Agreed.  In going all of the information we have (and don't have, but know happened)... I would definitely say the number is closer to (if not more) than 4 million. 

Does this stat include all versions?  Sears, Tandy, GTE, Bandai... etc.  

 

Seems all kinds of foreign versions were out there according to recent finds and pics posted on this forum.  I'd say you're correct if that is the case.

[thetick1]

Definitely back in the early 80's no one had more than one system and you knew who had the other gaming systems

 

Best friend had Atari 2600

Another good friend had Intellivision 

Another good friend had Colecovision

I had a Vic20 then C64

And my cousin had Atari 5200

Edited April 25, 2020 by thetick1

[spacecadet]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:11 AM, mr_me said:

The atari 2600 had about 10M units sold by 1982.  Not sure what the 1983 numbers are but like intellivision it was discounted to a budget system.   So it definitely sold a significant number of units after the crash. 

Source for either of those assertions?

 

I feel like there are people here who are oddly in denial about... something. I don't even know what. What exactly are you even arguing here?

[mr_me]

The source for the 10 million atari 2600 sales through 1982 is the 2008 guiness world records gamers edition.  Also, Atari was criticized for manufacturing more pacman cartridges than the atari 2600 install base at the time.  So if the total number of atari 2600 sales is over 25M, a significant number were sold after the crash.  With Intellivision it is not known how many were sold after the crash although there was a 1988 magazine article stating INTV Corp had 4% of the US market in 1987.

Edited April 25, 2020 by mr_me

[ASalvaro]

20 hours ago, thetick1 said:

Definitely back in the early 80's no one had more than one system and you knew who had the other gaming systems

 

Best friend had Atari 2600

Another good friend had Intellivision 

Another good friend had Colecovision

I had a Vic20 then C64

And my cousin had Atari 5200

i had every system on this list in 1984 except the C64 which i got in 1988 

[BSRSteve]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:11 AM, mr_me said:

If the crash hadn't happened Mattel would have had a couple of replacement systems, one possibly as early as 1983.

Early 1983 is really pre-crash. If we would have had a replacement system by then, it would have come out. I think late 1984 or early 1985 might have been possible.

[mr_me]

I guess the intellivision iii not being ready quick enough would have led to it's cancelation.  The crash ended up canceling everything anyway.  

 

When would the intellivision iv been expected to come out? 1985?

[BSRSteve]

Upon further review, the Intellivision III (upgraded STIC but otherwise pretty compatible) was aimed at 1983, but it wasn't the crash that killed it. We made lots of money in 1982, and an early 1983 release could have happened if it had been ready (maybe it would have stopped us from sinking so much money in the Aquarius). The Intellivison IV (which might have ended up as Intellivision III) was probably aimed more at 1985, or maybe late 1984, but the crash did affect that by mid-1983.

[SegaSnatcher]

Does the 3 million take into account the Intellivision Flashback consoles sold as well or just original units?

[mr_me]

5 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Does the 3 million take into account the Intellivision Flashback consoles sold as well or just original units?

The "Mattel sold more than three million intellivision consoles between 1980 and 1983", was written in a newspaper article in February 1984.

 

I wouldn't count intellivision flashbacks in the total but I don't think a significant number were made.

[Mockduck]

The other consideration is if back then they separated out sold through vs. shipped vs. manufactured. Seems reasonable that even if the formal sold number was three million, there could have been, say, another million hanging around that ended up in the collectors market from old store and warehouse stock. 

[5200Fanatic]

It was very expensive for its time. So was the 2600 but not as expensive as the Intellivision. 

[mr_me]

57 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

The other consideration is if back then they separated out sold through vs. shipped vs. manufactured. Seems reasonable that even if the formal sold number was three million, there could have been, say, another million hanging around that ended up in the collectors market from old store and warehouse stock. 

When Mattel sold all their video game assets in 1984, it included unsold stock of consoles and cartridges.  The group that bought them continued to supply retailers.  They ran out of that stock in 1984 or 1985 and that's when they started making the black and silver INTV System III.  INTV continued to supply retailers for several years.  So there were lots of Intellivisions that went to retail that's not counted in the "more than three million consoles".  I'm assuming Christmas 1983 sales are included but don't know that for sure.  When INTV finally closed around 1990, I doubt there was much in unsold stock.

[Mockduck]

15 hours ago, mr_me said:

When Mattel sold all their video game assets in 1984, it included unsold stock of consoles and cartridges.  The group that bought them continued to supply retailers.  They ran out of that stock in 1984 or 1985 and that's when they started making the black and silver INTV System III.  INTV continued to supply retailers for several years.  So there were lots of Intellivisions that went to retail that's not counted in the "more than three million consoles".  I'm assuming Christmas 1983 sales are included but don't know that for sure.  When INTV finally closed around 1990, I doubt there was much in unsold stock.

Excellent info, thanks.

[ASalvaro]

On 4/27/2020 at 2:03 AM, BSRSteve said:

Upon further review, the Intellivision III (upgraded STIC but otherwise pretty compatible) was aimed at 1983, but it wasn't the crash that killed it. We made lots of money in 1982, and an early 1983 release could have happened if it had been ready (maybe it would have stopped us from sinking so much money in the Aquarius). The Intellivison IV (which might have ended up as Intellivision III) was probably aimed more at 1985, or maybe late 1984, but the crash did affect that by mid-1983.

crash or no crash i think that would have been too much product..i mean Intellivision 2 in 1983,Intellivision 3 in 1983 and Intellivision 4 in 1985 wow..i mean i would have loved it but i think that would have been way too much for the consumers