Are all Wii U physical discs doomed?

[atarilovesyou]

Sorry for clickbaity title. So I bought a new, sealed SMW 3D months ago from Walmart that still had some Wii U stock.  I have already experienced an issue with games that won't load due to tiny little pinholes that appear to start in the top, art portion of the disc. 

 

I just checked my SMW 3D today to see if I could spot any, and, sure enough, I can see one very close to the inner spindle area. Having been aware of this problem, I'm very careful with how I handle the games. But this was a new game, verified pinhole free on opening, and now about six months later, it's got a hole. What gives?

 

Can anybody speak to this phenomena?  I haven't spent a lot on Wii U physical media but if this great game someday goes kaput, that will be a shame.  Could it be an across the board manufacturing flaw? It's really a shame. I've personally had it happen now to SMW 3D (still working though), Marioparty 10, Mariokart 8...only the first was new, the others used. But still. 

 

Maybe Nintendo warranty cover this one as it was purchased new, or is it the old 90 day warranty? It's really a shame as each game has had zero damage to the bottom of the disc, none. 

[Asaki]

I've never noticed, I'd have to take a look at my discs.

 

I know Lego City Undercover gives me "cannot read disc" errors every once in a while. I even returned it and got another...still get issues, just not quite as often.

[atarilovesyou]

Just hold up the disk to a bright light source behind it. It's usually a little easier to see them from the data side. They are very, very small looking pinholes.  If you see none, fantastic.  If you do, and the game works, also fantastic. I have a few that have the holes but still work. take a look and see.

[Steven Pendleton]

I just checked 3 of my Wii U games. They do all have these tiny little holes. Didn't check them to see if they work since my Wii U has been put away for some time. I don't think there are any games on the system that I actually want to play at all aside from Fatal Frame (which of course did not get a disc release in the USA and I don't have a Japanese Wii U), so it's not a loss to me if they did decide to die. I only have like 7 or 8 games for the system and everything else that I care about got Switch ports before I got around to playing it on the Wii U, so...

Edited May 8, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I believe it has been stated that pinholes near the spindle area are normal as it was actually part of the copy protection system used on the discs. Was recently found out when all the source docs got leaked on the systems not long ago. It was also the system used on gamecube in addition to the reverse read setup they used on those discs. 

 

[Steven Pendleton]

9 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I believe it has been stated that pinholes near the spindle area are normal as it was actually part of the copy protection system used on the discs. Was recently found out when all the source docs got leaked on the systems not long ago. It was also the system used on gamecube in addition to the reverse read setup they used on those discs. 

 

Okay, good. I didn't read those documents, but it's good to know.

[atarilovesyou]

2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I believe it has been stated that pinholes near the spindle area are normal as it was actually part of the copy protection system used on the discs. Was recently found out when all the source docs got leaked on the systems not long ago. It was also the system used on gamecube in addition to the reverse read setup they used on those discs. 

 

But if this were the case, wouldn't all discs then have the holes near the spindle? I have a few Wii U games that were purchased new and none of them had holes. Now I noticed the SMW 3D. I have some library rentals, and while.some have holes and work, others don't. Most times the holes are not near the spindle, but it's interesting to hear about security.  

 

Just trying to see if there's anybody else here who has noticed this. Thanks guys.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I have quite a few WiiU games but haven't looked at the actual discs in sometime since I sadly haven't used the Wii U in sometime.

 

Far as I know the pinholes related to security would only be near the spindle center rings. Any others are pinholes due to the top label material flaking off or otherwise coming loose from the top surface of the disc.

 

[Video]

I've seen pinholes in lots of discs, not just games. It's just a printing error when the disc is made, or wear on the label, but doesn't actually affect the data layer unless it's external damage, like gouges from drops or abuse.

 

The drive should be dark internally, so the only light source would be the laser, though I could see an open drive causing errors if external light was shining through the holes.

[atarilovesyou]

Of all the games I own on discs, the Wii U is the only system that has this issue.  I've done some reading about it.  I will keep an eye on the new disc to see if and when it stops working. I just find it un-Nintendo to release discs that have this issue where the top if the disc, if scratched, can lead to the data being affected. Usually it's the other way around. It's not like disc media was a new thing in 2013. The bottoms are bulletproof but the tops, not so much. 

 

For those of you planning on buying used Wii U games, do a check for the holes. I wish I could show you my Mariokart 8 disc, it's riddled with them (yet the surface of the disc was clean!)and you can only really see them if you are aware of what you're looking for.

Edited May 9, 2020 by atarilovesyou

[Asaki]

13 hours ago, atarilovesyou said:

I just find it un-Nintendo to release discs that have this issue where the top if the disc, if scratched, can lead to the data being affected. Usually it's the other way around.

That's how disc media works, man

 

The top layer is the foil, and that's where all the data is. Scratching the bottom of the disc just makes it harder for the laser to read the data, that's why we have products to polish the scratches out of discs: professional ones literally grind away layers of the plastic. But if you get a scratch on the foil/label, there's no data there anymore to read.

[atarilovesyou]

I get what you're saying, but these Wii U discs must have the thinnest, suspect paint in top of the discs. Why is it that in my last 25 years of CD based gaming have I only experienced any of these issues on a regular basis with Wii U discs? Not a single solitary Wii disc in my collection has exhibited issues like my meager few Wii U discs have played. 

 

There has to be a better explanation why, but I doubt I'll get it as people have just moved on to Switch.  I certainly won't be trying to amass any kind of collection for it, as even newly opened games.have these holes. Not reflective of Nintendo quality over the decades.

Edited May 12, 2020 by atarilovesyou

[Austin]

I checked a bunch of my Wii U discs the other day because of this thread, just out of curiosity.. Not a single issue. ?

[Atariboy]

I was afraid to look, so I'm glad to read that.

[eightbit]

This has been happening to people with Wii U discs for years:

 

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/our-wii-u-discs-keep-developing-pinholes-in-them.1158167/

 

 

I hate to say it, but it appears to be disc rot. Perhaps the chemicals/materials they used for these discs were not up to snuff. I offloaded my entire laserdisc collection years ago because I saw what was happening there. Sad to say disc based media is not something that will last as long as some other media formats....but this happening only after a few years is way premature.

[Keatah]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:35 AM, Video said:

I've seen pinholes in lots of discs, not just games. It's just a printing error when the disc is made, or wear on the label, but doesn't actually affect the data layer unless it's external damage, like gouges from drops or abuse.

 

The drive should be dark internally, so the only light source would be the laser, though I could see an open drive causing errors if external light was shining through the holes.

Or not having reflective material there to send the light back to the detector. That outer top layer gets scratched? Boom! No reflection!

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Keatah

[eightbit]

While I never checked my Wii U discs up to a light when I had them, I will say that they were all extremely reliable. I never had a read error with any Wii U game disc.

[Video]

Well, the reflective layer is separate of the label layer (on most discs, I see no reason Wii u discs would be different)

 

that reflective play disc is so thin it's fairly transparent anyways. Look at many new music and movie discs, you can see through many of the modern ones. Especially the ones without painted (probably Silk screen) labels.

 

yeah it can be bitrot, but assuming the Wii u discs are manufactured the cheapest way possible, it's still WAY to early for them to be giving problems.  I have disc media as old as I am that still looks (and works) new, while some stuff from the 90's are showing deterioration. Old discs used to be pressed, like vinyl, but at some point, the manufacturers decided making the data layer out of chemicals was easier/cheaper, and that took over. Even there, 20+ years (with minimal car e) is still a perfectly reasonable lifespan for discs.

[atarilovesyou]

I don't believe it's bit rot...at least from my understanding of what that is.  I think it's something about the manufacturing of the discs themselves. I would have chalked it up to user error (careless handling of disc) had it not been for the brand new disc that suddenly developed a pinhole. I treat all my stuff very carefully and always have. I'm 'that guy'. If the holes appear from mishandling discs, then these discs are comparably much lesser quality than any other CD gaming media I own because I have never, ever had a disc not load. Because there are people here with comlletely hole free discs, the copyright protection story doesn't hold up (wouldn't everybody's discs have the pinholes then?) 

 

I guess the only message from me is to be aware that I've had it happen, and hold up any disc you want to buy used to a strong light source to see if it has any holes. I've bought tons of used discs over the years, ones that the bottoms have been pretty beat up...and they still worked. I've run into this holes issue wth at least five Wii U discs, which was why I looked into it further. The bottom of the disc can be flawless, but don't let that fool you. 

 

I guess there could be another explanation, that somehow the machine could somehow scratch the disc during the loading process? I can't see that being the issue but who knows.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by atarilovesyou

[CatsGamesWhatever]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:52 PM, eightbit said:

I hate to say it, but it appears to be disc rot. Perhaps the chemicals/materials they used for these discs were not up to snuff. I offloaded my entire laserdisc collection years ago because I saw what was happening there. Sad to say disc based media is not something that will last as long as some other media formats....but this happening only after a few years is way premature.

It's not disc rot IMO. Usually disc rot stems from improper storage (i.e. high humidity, hot/cold etc.) and the early manufacturing process for disc games that made them more susceptible to it (which is why you see it mostly in Sega CD/Saturn etc.).

 

I've opened Wii U games that had a pinhole on the center of the disc. My guess is is the format Nintendo used for Wii U discs had manufacturing problems. The errors manifest in pinholes in the discs but also the top layer of artwork  not adhering properly and flaking off. Maybe something akin to the MGS: Twin Snakes crackling issue on Gamecube.

I've had 2 Wii U discs not work so far (read error)  and neither suffered from either of these problems (or had any scratching for that matter...)

 

I've also had several PS2 games that I accidentally removed some the disc artwork (rental DVD hub stickers) that still worked fine. Same issue with flaking on some later PS2 disc pressings in my experience.

[+wongojack]

If light is somehow suspected of shining through or not reflecting because of these holes, could you cover the holes somehow and see if it results in any improvement?

[Blazing Lazers]

Oh geez, this has me worried. I knew that even Nintendo had cheaped out on the quality of cases for these games, as have other companies (just compare an early 360 game case to some later ones, or even to the original Xbox cases), and eightbit had an excellent thread on the matter here:

 

So not only are the cases bad, but the discs themselves may be susceptible to slowly rotting away? The full set Nintendo speculators have already driven up prices on a few Wii-U titles, but just imagine what will be happening to all of the currently sealed copies over time. Opened copies with clean, working discs might well fetch an even greater price premium in the near future.

 

[homerj]

I haven’t played my Wii U in a while before yesterday.  3 of the 5 games i tried didn’t work.  NSMB/NSLB wouldn’t load past the screen just before the menu pops up.  DKC Tropical Freeze was pretty much the same.  Yoshi’s Wooly World wasn’t even recognized as a Wii U disc.  All 3 look fine.  Bayonetta & Star Fox Zero loaded up just fine. 

[Steven Pendleton]

This is somewhat worrisome. Perhaps I should test my Wii U games. I always hated that McDonald's Happy Meal toys have better plastic and build quality than the Wii U pro controller and the Wii U game cases, but this is interesting.

[homerj]

Yeah i guess I’ll start testing mine too.  I’ll post results when I’m done.