copying files from 1050 to sio2sd

[Theodore2]

Hi, Newbie question here.

I have an atari 800, a 1050, and an sio2sd (from Lotharek).  I have about 40 floppies from back in the day that still can be read via my 1050.  I'm also able to run programs and games directly from the sio2sd.  But I've never used both the sio2sd and the 1050 together.  I would like to copy files from the floppies onto the sio2SD before the floppies become unreadable.  It's been over 2 decades since I've copied any files with my atari so I'm really rusty.  Here's some questions:

1. I think I used to use a sector copier for full computer game disks, and just DOS 2.5 for my personal files and basic files.  Does that sound right?

2. I don't know how to setup the sio2SD such that it can be read as a 2nd drive. Or do I just setup the 1050 as a 2nd drive (via the dip switch in the back of the drive?)

3. Do I need to make a bunch of empty directories on the SD card using my laptop first, (like "Disk 1" , "Disk 2", etc.) and then somehow switch to one of these new disks via the button menu on the sio2SD after I fill each one up?  If so, how do i do that?

 

Many thanks for your help, and my apologies if these are elemetary questions.  Again, it's been 20+years since I've used my Atari in earnest and I'm just happy to be getting the time to do so recently, but frustrated that there's a learning curve to something new.

Sincerely,

Theodore2

  

Edited May 10, 2020 by Theodore2

[_The Doctor__]

1. Yes for  a good number or people....

2. Just leave whatever drive slot that has a real drive assigned to it empty in the sio2sd...

3. You could, but it's not needed, If you, simply make and name the atr's as you go... you can pretty much copy them to and from the sd card at will. Selecting images is done with the up down buttons outlined in the sio to sd manual, it's also noted at the sio 2 sd web site and various threads here on AA>

 

http://sio2sd.gucio.pl/wiki/English

 

you can web search the sio2sd many different ways and languages... lots of resources...

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[Theodore2]

A few more details: I have Sio2sd ver. 1.3.   I have the Atari 800 daisy chained to the 1050 (dip switch currently set to drive #1), and then to the sio2sd.

Re: #2 above, I'm studying the wiki, but still can't figure out how to configure the sio2sd properly.  When I try to boot with the 1050 off, it reads from the sio2sd.  When I try to boot with the 1050 on, I get Atari Memo Pad.  

[_The Doctor__]

did you make sure the disk in the 1050 is bootable and the sio2sd drive slot 0 or 1 are empty?

I'd have to check and see if the 1.3 version has the BAT style diode and serial isolation. You might also be able to change the sio2sd device ID # change it to the next number up...

[_The Doctor__]

can I get a picture of the sio2sd board preferably if the display board is not blocking the picture of the main PCB

[+Allan]

Here's what I do.

 

130XE-->1050-->SIO2SD.

 

I use a Disk Wizard II which allows you to change what drive is the destination and which one you copy from.

 

I just set the 1050 to drive two and leave the SIO2SD as drive one. In Disk Wizard II I set source as drive #1 and destination to drive 1. 

 

You have to boot Disk Wizard II from the SIO2SD and then change the disk image to any regular single-sided disk image.

 

I find this the easiest way to copy real disks to Sd cards.

 

You do have to set up the names of the disk images in your PC /Mac before so you know what your copying to.

 

On your PC/Mac just duplicate the DOS 2 disk image too has many disks you want to copy and rename each one to what is on the label of your physical disks.

 

Allan

 

Disk Wizard II copy.atr Dos 2.0s.atr

[_The Doctor__]

Allen, he's using a series 1 sio2sd, depending on the revision and pcb... it might not get along with other SIO devices... amongst other issues around the crystal etc... I of course am remembering bits and pieces of what went on at that time as the revisions came.

[darwinmac]

I’d be careful reading too much into the 1.3 version number. That could be Lotharek’s internal version. 
 

I had that exact model and was able to daisy chain it to the 1050. I used the instructions listed above to copy disks with a sector editor to ATRs on the SIO2SD. 
 

I thought it had a Lotharek modified version of 3.5c for the firmware. However, I could be confusing the version number with the software. I no longer own the SIO2SD because I gave it to a friend when I purchased an Sdrive Max. 
 

I also used an XEGS and not an 800. I don’t know if there are compatibility differences using the 800. 
 

Bob C

Edited May 11, 2020 by darwinmac
Spelling, grammar

[Voxel]

I was doing this with a rather unreliable Lotharek SIO2SD in 2009.

 

Had a blank disc set up on the SIO2SD, daisy chained to my 1050, and used various copying software.

 

Trial and error will get you there, however if you've backed up enough software back in the day you'll figure it out sooner.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

 

I do own four SIO2SD (2x SIO2SD by Lotharek, 2x SIO2SD/PC-micro by santosp), but I have never copied a single diskette from a real A8 drive to any of the SIO2SD`s, so I cannot really help here - but I try...

 

When I started copying real disks into ATR images in the late 90s / early 2000s, I simply used SIO2PC by N.Kennedy under MS-DOS and I still do that today. The PC I am now using has two harddisks, one boots MS-DOS and SIO2PC (and contains four partitions filled with thousands of ATR images), the other boots Win XP, so I can easily copy my ATR images onto USB-sticks, CF-cards, SD-cards or whatever...

 

-----

 

If you do not have any ATR image on the SIO2SD, then setup your real drive as D1: and SIO2SD as D2:. Create an empty ATR image on the SIO2SD as described in one of the manuals flying around. (I am absolutely clueless here, it is depending on the SIO2SD firmware you have, afaik with firmware 3.1 you have to use shift-K4 to eject a disk, then shift-K4 to create an empty ATR or something like that, but not sure what size is created then). Then boot a sectorcopy program from the real drive, which should detect D1: (real drive) and D2: (SIO2SD, empty+unformatted ATR). Setup the sectorcopy program, so that it formats the destination (empty ATR on SIO2SD). Next insert a diskette into the real drive and sectorcopy it onto the SIO2SD. If my theory works, the sectorcopy will read from the real drive, next format the empty ATR image on the SIO2SD and then write to the ATR image...

 

Afaik, the ATR image is then saved under a pre-defined name and I am unsure if you can change (rename) it with the Atari or the SIO2SD. Think there were versions of the SIO2SD firmware where the created ATR image could not be renamed by the Atari and you had to do it with a PC, so one could only use it to create one ATR image (further images would have overwritten existing ones). This meant, one created a single ATR image with SIO2SD with a pre-defined name, then put the SD-card into the PC to rename it, then created the next ATR image with a pre-defined name. Hopefully they changed that awkward behaviour with the latest firmware, but as said before, I never tested it and would not be surprised if it is still the same...

 

Much easier is the trick Allan described above - simply copy various ATR images (completely empty or with just DOS 2.0 or DOS 2.5 on them) as placeholders onto the SD-card of your SIO2SD, using a PC. Give these ATR images the names you want to use later for your real disks. When done, put your SD-card back into the SIO2SD and copy your real disks onto these ATR images that are already there (overwriting them with the data of your real disks)...

 

[Theodore2]

Ok, I made some progress.  Apparently the sio2SD thinks it's D1.  I have no idea how to change that no matter how many times I read the sio2SD manual, so I didn't fight it anymore and set the 1050's dip switch to D2.  I can now boot from the sio2SD, choose Spartados from the menu of many programs already on the SD card, and then read from D2 (the 1050)!! 

 

My next challenge is multifold and would appreciate some guidance.  

1. for the disks that have regular files like basic programs and word processor files, is it better to transfer them as individual files, or make an atr image and transfer the whole disk that way?

2. for the disks that have binary file games, i would assume it's best to make an atr.  

3. I know what an atr file is, but I've never created one in my life.  Is there a tutorial somewhere?

4. I am not sure how to "swap disks" or create "new disks" on the SD card.  Even when Charlie Chaplin (above) says "simply copy various ATR images (completely empty or with just DOS 2.0 or DOS 2.5 on them) as placeholders onto the SD-card of your SIO2SD, using a PC", I don't know where I can find an empty ATR image online somewhere.  Or how to create one on my own.  

 

Again, I apologize for the newbie questions, but I just don't have the hang of this quite yet and apprecaite your patience and guidance very much.

Sincerely,

Theodore

[darwinmac]

@Theodore2 - First of all, is your modern computer a PC (does it run Windows)? If so, you can use MakeATR to create an ATR file that you can copy over to the SIO2SD. The ATR file is simply a file that simulates the floppy disk that you insert into the 1050. For your BASIC programs and word processor files, you will need to have a blank ATR image inserted into D1 (on the SIO2SD).

 

You can find MakeATR on this page (https://seriouscomputerist.atariverse.com/pages/utility/utility.pc.htm) along with other places. DuckDuckGo (my search engine of choice) didn't give me the original home page on the first page, but I know you can find it at the link I provided. You can create the ATR directly on the SIO2SD, but I found it a clumsy process. It was easier for me to create the ATR from Windows, name the ATR something that makes sense when I see it in the SIO2SD LCD screen or autoboot menu - BASICPRGS.ATR, for example), copy the ATR to the SD card using my SD card reader,  and select the ATR as D1 in the SIO2SD.

 

At that point, you can use DOS (I don't know your DOS of choice) to copy the files to your ATR file. I used to get errors when doing this so I tended to use a sector copier program to copy my disks to the SIO2SD.

 

As far as your binary games, it depends. If the entire game is in one file, you may be able to simply copy the file to your SD card from Windows (assuming your modern computer is a Windows PC) without needing it enclosed in an ATR file. However, it may need to have a certain suffix (.COM, .XEX) in order for the SIO2SD to run it. I'm not entirely sure about that though. If your binary game needs multiple files in order to function, you will need to copy the files to an ATR image from Atari DOS (or your DOS of choice).

 

As far as swapping ATR files, the SIO2SD manual tells you which button to press to change the ATR file that is inserted into D1 (in your case). I think it's the second button (K2) that changes the file that is in your drive. K1 (first button) switches which drive you are setting up on the SIO2SD. I used to use a program for the SIO2SD that let me select the disk to put into D1 on bootup of my Atari. However, if that disk doesn't have the DOS files on it, it won't boot up.

 

Bob C

[+DrVenkman]

8 hours ago, darwinmac said:

If so, you can use MakeATR to create an ATR file that you can copy over to the SIO2SD.

You can also create ATR files in many emulators and disk interface software (RespeQt for instance). Altirra also lets you create them pre-formatted, so to speak. So no need to format them via a DOS on your actual Atari. 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Find attached three empty ATR images:

 

90k, DOS 2.0s/2.5 format (707 free sectors, 128BpS)

130k, DOS 2.5 format (1010 free sectors, displayed as 999+ free, 128 BpS)

180k, DOS 2.0d format (707 free sectors, 256 BpS)

 

Make copies of them and use them as placeholders for your real disks.

 

empty_ATR.zip

[Theodore2]

Thanks CharlieChaplin (and others).  The empty ATR files did the trick.  I used my Windows laptop to make 50+ copies of the ATR file with different names on the SD card, and then inserted back into the sio2SD and was able to slowly copy most of the disks I had.  Took a little trial and error to find the directory on the sio2SD.  Admittedly, about 1/3 of the disks had an Error 139 or lost some of their data (i.e. games would load but then crash somewhere in the middle).  Can anyone point me in the direction or thread of how to attempt to recover from Error 139?  At least 2 of my disks with word processing files have that.

Thanks, all, again!!

Theodore

Edited May 30, 2020 by Theodore2

[_The Doctor__]

are the errors happening during reading of the disks, or writing?

 

if it is happening during reading on a real physical drive, your' disk drives' head is probably dirty, and every disk put in it will become dirty or possibly damaged as well...

 

please make sure the drive head is clean and clean the disks you are reading as well.

 

solvent on drive heads,

gentle cotton swabs and swabbing with moisture (no solvents) of the disk, that's normally just breath or mild soap etc.

 

there are many thread about all of this sort of thing.

 

make sure all cabling and SIO ports are good, make sure SIO 2 SD wires are good, if you made your own SIO2SD or obtain an old one... check the wires at the crimps on these and that all of the swipes are firmly locked in their connector positions.

Edited May 30, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[+DrVenkman]

8 hours ago, Theodore2 said:

Thanks CharlieChaplin (and others).  The empty ATR files did the trick.  I used my Windows laptop to make 50+ copies of the ATR file with different names on the SD card, and then inserted back into the sio2SD and was able to slowly copy most of the disks I had.  Took a little trial and error to find the directory on the sio2SD.  Admittedly, about 1/3 of the disks had an Error 139 or lost some of their data (i.e. games would load but then crash somewhere in the middle).  Can anyone point me in the direction or thread of how to attempt to recover from Error 139?  At least 2 of my disks with word processing files have that.

Thanks, all, again!!

Theodore

Game disks are often copy-protected using custom disk formats and things that are intended to prevent copying by standard means. Even a lot of the compilation warez disks many of us had as kids were created by things like Happy Drives or other hardware-based modified disk drives, making copying with a standard drive impossible. Too many variations really for a single answer to your copying problems but probably some combo of the above.

One thing you can try if you haven’t already is copying the troublesome disks with a sector copier - there are a number of good ones depending on what you’re after. They may or may not get you a usable copy of a disk if a standard DOS copy process doesn’t work.

[Theodore2]

Hi All,

I dismantled and cleaned the drive head.  Works fine to read for many disks, but I still get an error 139 for a bunch.  I know some of the copy protected disks will have issues.  But this one disk is from a local User Group and giving me an error 139 right at the end of when it's finished writing to the sio2SD.  All files seem to have copied, but still gives me an error 139.  Any other suggestions? 

[_The Doctor__]

do you have any real blank disks? if yes try duplicate disk from a DOS capable of single and enhanced density, it will probably duplicate the disk just fine.

 

I have a suspicion

does the the sio2sd have the proper sized atr mounted to copy to?

90K

127K

180K

360K

 

Error-139 Device NAK.

There are a number of possible causes of this error which is, to a certain extent, dependent on the device. One possibility is that an, illegal command was sent to the device such as trying to access a bad disk sector or one not present on the disk (e.g. a sector number greater than 720 on a single density disk). Check the syntax of the command passed to the device.

 

since I don't know what your source disk is, nor do I know if you disk drive is double density capable there still could be that issue. My users group did single, enhanced and double density flippy disks, without an XF551, us doubler 1050, indus, or other such drives... you wouldn't be reading all of those disks. or writing a double density disk to a single density drive etc etc...

Edited June 2, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[+CharlieChaplin]

This could e.g. happen when you try to write a 130k disk onto a 90k image.

 

Several years ago I also found some 90k disk images that had DOS 2.5 on them and files in the directory with the < and > brackets around them - so these originally were 130k disks. Of course when trying to load the <files> (that were not available on the 90k disk image!), I always got Error 139...

 

Or if you are copying files from a disk to a disk image, it could be differences in the 130k format. Several DOS 2 versions support the 130k format, but not all of them are compatible to each other. For example Atari DOS 2.5 gives you 1010 of the available 1040 sectors, second VTOC is in sector 1024; MyDOS gives you 1027 of the available 1040 sectors, second VTOC is in sector 359 and there are several other DOS 2 versions that do it differently. The 130k standard of DOS 2.5 is well known and many DOS 2 compatible versions use that as well (Bibo DOS, Turbo DOS, XDOS, SuperDOS, etc.), but there are some DOS versions that support the MyDOS standard and others that go their own way of doing it.

 

I have setup an empty 130k ATR in DOS 2.5 format, if you try to copy files onto that image with a DOS that is not DOS 2.5 compatible, maybe you also get Error 139 then...?!?